A Bout of Honesty

[Believland]

[quote name='Rebel Virginia' timestamp='1290887086' post='2524721']
[color="#0000ff"]Dearest Gents and Lady Gents,

Rebel Virginia believes that MK is to blame for the current stagnation. Rebel Virginia feels that MK should stop being so mean. Maybe MK should lighten up just a big, Rebel Virginia does think. Rebel Virginia is sure that if MK stopped playing puppet master things would be fun again. Why does MK not listen to what Rebel Virginia has to say?

You sunk Rebel Virginia's battleship.[/color]
[/quote]

RV IS A FREE ELF!

[Qaianna]

[quote name='Branimir' timestamp='1290963328' post='2525322']
I am sure there was, though I just felt pity for them. From the moment Silverhawk said how GGA doesn't need WRCs as NPO has them for them, I just felt pity. GGA was harmless and irrelevant. Only people that could gloat over a demise of such an entity, had to have something personal against it as otherwise--its just sad and not worthy of strong emotions.


I suppose. But as said, at this point in my game experience I am not motivated to hang on neither by posibility of changing or keeping any structures.

I just want to see some burn to a crisp--and they be on all and every sides.
[/quote]

That quote was pretty cringeworthy from the inside, too. Personally, I did have a few strong feelings, but more sadness. Oh well. But honestly, I think we're in agreement as far as the 'powers that be break up' thoughts go.

[quote name='Cairna' timestamp='1290967385' post='2525342']
My main worry is this whole "Friends > Infra" thing. Frankly, it's caught on far too well. This game only really works if you care about your infra. There's no real politics to be played out unless you care about your infra.
[/quote]
YES! Cairna, I've mentioned this many times, but the culture of 'I don't care about pixels' will kill off ANYTHING. If nothing else, where's the fun in the guy who'll attack you? He can't hurt you if you don't care about the pixels, you can hurt HIM ... net gain for starting trouble at best is nil and at most is a lot of damage while his would-be enemies merrily laugh. To quote a semi-infamous video of a not so nice incident in a very minor pro wrestling league, LEARN TO SELL. And I'm not talking about technology or donations.

[quote]
Maybe we've just mastered the game mechanics so well that we can't really make drama that easily anymore. I mean, part of what made the GW's so awesome was because people could really mix stuff up with strategies. There's not much to do ( albeit, there's still military prowess differences and small things you can do) and so maybe CN's just gotten too comfortable.

We should just merge the big alliances into micro-alliances with newbie leaders and let them have their go. Everybody: pick a micro ( I dibs PPF, regardless of what Opethian says )
[/quote]
I wouldn't say 'merge'. I've actually advocated something more along the lines of how the Cold War in 'real life' went. Proxy wars as the micros and midtiers fight amongst themselves for stuff--possibly even the favour of the big blocs.

[Bob Ilyani]

[quote name='Qaianna' timestamp='1290980928' post='2525447']
I wouldn't say 'merge'. I've actually advocated something more along the lines of how the Cold War in 'real life' went. Proxy wars as the micros and midtiers fight amongst themselves for stuff--possibly even the favour of the big blocs.
[/quote]
Now THAT would make the game interesting again. As well as a lot more fun to play.

[ImperialCubanacan]

Another thread about the same subject. Ugh.

[Cairna]

[quote name='ImperialCubanacan' timestamp='1290982200' post='2525461']
Another thread about the same subject. Ugh.
[/quote]
Thanks for taking the time to post, it was appreciated.

[ImperialCubanacan]

I understand the reasoning for the OP, simply saying there seems to be a few of these threads floating around. As for the post above my first post, alliances fighting others in miniature wars for the bigger blocs would be fun yes, but if a bigger war ever occured those smaller alliances would already be spent.

[Cairna]

[quote name='ImperialCubanacan' timestamp='1290982739' post='2525467']
I understand the reasoning for the OP, simply saying there seems to be a few of these threads floating around. As for the post above my first post, alliances fighting others in miniature wars for the bigger blocs would be fun yes, but if a bigger war ever occured those smaller alliances would already be spent.
[/quote]
Not entirely true, and maybe that'd be part of the fun. In such a situation I'm sure you'd always have some on the sidelines.

Of course arranging this sort of thing seems unlikely at best. I mean after all, it would be arranged.

[Trouble Terrible]

[quote name='Prodigal Moon' timestamp='1290921310' post='2525135']
If I were in one of the top 3 blocs right now, I'd be figuring out a way to make my bloc dominate this game. Not sit comfortably in hegemony with the other 2, but literally destroy all potential opponents. Or if we really liked the other 2 blocs, I'd try to get us to roll the rest of the world, once and for all. Now that would be exciting.

Of course, this situation isn't really any different from the Continuum days, except for maybe fewer random beatdowns of alliances that stick their necks out.
[/quote]

How do you know this isn't what we're already doing

[KagetheSecond]

I think having a SuperGayVances vs. everyone war would be fun. Make it happen, guys.

[Lord Curzon]

[quote name='Rebel Virginia' timestamp='1290902303' post='2524912']
[color="#0000FF"]Actually, if I were in your position I'd have turned on MK or NpO already. I never understood the point of beating a dead alliance. When I was in the NPO I got fed up with their signing treaties left and right. I wanted to roll our allies more than our "enemies." Just another reason why I eventually left the NPO. Old enemies get boring after awhile. Find new ones.[/color]
[/quote]

Actually, I think that is one of the biggest differences between NPO and the current group. NPO was quite willing to hit their own allies. The list of allies turned enemies is a long one, FAN, NoV, Polar, ourselves, ect. It is these actions that really start to isolate powers as a critical mass of people who have lost trust in the ruling coalition start looking for other avenues to get revenge.

Edit: I stand quite corrected

Edited November 29, 2010 by Lord Curzon

[ImperialCubanacan]

Yeah and arranged wars really aren't as fun, unless you plan to compensate the losers. Otherwise people are just expending resources. Though, I may be missing the whole point of this..

[Rebel Virginia]

[quote name='Lord Curzon' timestamp='1290990994' post='2525530']
Actually, I think that is one of the biggest differences between NPO and the current group. NPO was quite willing to hit their own allies. The list of allies turned enemies is a long one, FAN, NoV, Polar, ourselves, ect. It is these actions that really start to isolate powers as a critical mass of people who have lost trust in the ruling coalition start looking for other avenues to get revenge.

Edit: I stand quite corrected
[/quote]
[color="#0000FF"]I don't blame them for not trusting NPO, or for wanting revenge, but do you really think the "let's all hold hands and be friends" is the best route for the game? There is no conflict. There are alliances who do hate each other, but their mutual friends always resolve any difference. Because they refuse to drop and ally or, Heaven forbid, fight an ally's ally, they only have to look forward to beating down ex-Hegemony alliances which have failed to do anything about their image. Sooner or later most of the decent alliances that were in the ex-Heg side will have managed to have repaired their image enough to have gotten into a new side, while the incompetent ones will remain. I couldn't care less whether you like NPO, or NSO, or whatever, but after awhile you're going to get bored and want a new enemy. I know I would.[/color]

[R3nowned]

What I can't believe is the fact that there are people on "that side" still believes that there is an "ex-heg" side. I simply can't see it. It's so fractured that there's around 3 or 4 different "sides" in this "ex-heg" side, each who are indifferent or disliking 1 or more of the other factions of power in the so called "ex-heg" side.

The next war won't come from the remnants of Q/1V + Satellite alliances. It'll come from SF, CnG, PB or DH alliances. There simply isn't enough political capital left from the defeated alliances to successfully gather a coalition and start a global war.

Those in the current seat of power, look to your so called friends for enemies, because that's where they will be. Right now, you're jumping at the shadows of the former seat of power, and finding nothing there.

Also, CN lacks a lot of political intrigue and drama at the moment. Compared with this time 2008, when everyone knew that the Karma war was coming, or last year, when everyone foresaw a Christmas/New Years war (there was one, but it let everyone down), this time, nothing's happening at all. Those in power aren't willing to rock the boat. Those who aren't, don't have enough strength to rock the boat. This political stagnation is feeding the game's stagnation as well.

Edit: Yes, I know there are behind the scenes stuff, but that's exactly my point. Those who aren't in the know used to be able to suss out the OWF for any potential war on the horizon. There's just nothing at this point. Those in the know are such a small fraction of the CN population, that it doesn't feed into the greater population as well as those who aren't in the know would like.

Edited November 29, 2010 by R3nowned

[The MVP]

[quote name='ImperialCubanacan' timestamp='1290993026' post='2525550']
Yeah and arranged wars really aren't as fun, unless you plan to compensate the losers. Otherwise people are just expending resources. Though, I may be missing the whole point of this..
[/quote]

Which is why I told Denial earlier that natural tension is far better than fabricated tension.

[Sardonic]

[quote name='Schattenmann' timestamp='1290907207' post='2524965']
VE figured out they're never getting in SF or CnG, GOONS figured out they have an attractive lower tier for these older alliances and needed a replacement for big bro Polaris,
[/quote]

Don't even pretend you know anything about our FA policy. We weren't part of PB to "find a replacement for polaris", that treaty ended, oh, I don't know, more than 3/4ths of a year before PB was formed. We have almost always had the ability to get exactly what we want. On that note, the signatories of PB have been getting exactly what we want, so don't expect a rift now or ever.

As to the speculation from those on what they see as "the other side": It is not our fault we do not play the role of tyrants you try to cast us as, if you want to get in the drivers seat, you're going to have to do it from a position of moral inferiority.

Good luck with that.

[Sigrun Vapneir]

[quote name='ImperialCubanacan' timestamp='1290993026' post='2525550']
Yeah and arranged wars really aren't as fun, unless you plan to compensate the losers. Otherwise people are just expending resources. Though, I may be missing the whole point of this..
[/quote]

Resources vs. activity. Sometimes activity wins.

[quote name='Rebel Virginia' timestamp='1291009352' post='2525709']
[color="#0000ff"]I don't blame them for not trusting NPO, or for wanting revenge, but do you really think the "let's all hold hands and be friends" is the best route for the game? There is no conflict. [/color]
[/quote]

There is little real reason for conflict. Why do you think forcing conflict is the only way to make the game fun?

[quote name='R3nowned' timestamp='1291010942' post='2525726']
What I can't believe is the fact that there are people on "that side" still believes that there is an "ex-heg" side. I simply can't see it. It's so fractured that there's around 3 or 4 different "sides" in this "ex-heg" side, each who are indifferent or disliking 1 or more of the other factions of power in the so called "ex-heg" side.[/quote]

Yeah, for the most part, they dont want much to do with each other anymore it seems, and who can blame them?

[ImperialCubanacan]

Well, resources vs activity would be a tough one seeing as these days activity is low and these days people tend to want to keep their resources. Which in turn is the problem with this game now a days. Nobody wants to risk anything. And those that do just get beat to pieces before it's even meaningful. Which is the whole reason nothing seems to happen now.

A forced war, such as what that GCU thing was doing obviously didn't turn out well for them. I'm not saying people need to randomly decide to go to war at update, just we need alittle cushion for pushin.

Anyway, my faint usefulness in this thread is spent.

[Branimir]

[quote name='Sardonic' timestamp='1291048394' post='2525884']As to the speculation from those on what they see as "the other side": It is not our fault we do not play the role of tyrants you try to cast us as, if you want to get in the drivers seat, you're going to have to do it from a position of moral inferiority.[/quote]
So, game plan from the GOONS is to be moralist, or, morally acceptable?

Just highlights the overall "playing it close to the vest" mentality that some keep mentioning, that is kind of slowing things down among other factors. If a in game entity described as "out there" in their stunts, and their verbal expression is actually preoccupied with moral perception of themselves in the eyes of others then that is a strong indicator how the prevailing gaming mentality stands.

Its lame. Avoid making enemies at all costs, the old ones keep in that spot forever as somebody has to be.

But then, in the case of GOONS, I suppose I get it. One war lost and your alliance is history, just like the first time. You lack any character or backbone, its prevailingly obvious. That is why GOONS do not occupy any special attention from me in fallowing the game storyline. Playing this way seems as a safe enough and conservative enough approach in keeping safe.

Edited November 29, 2010 by Branimir

[Prime minister Johns]

This may sound somewhat counter-intuitive, but a epic war to end all wars where everyone gets ZIed might actually have the same positive effect as a reset. It would level the playing field for the most part and providing there was no crippling reps at the end for the losing side it would make it possible for everyone to compete on an equal level, and newcomers would not be overly discouraged by the seemingly impossible task of catching up to the majority of the other players.

[Geoffron X]

[quote name='Lord Curzon' timestamp='1290990994' post='2525530']
Actually, I think that is one of the biggest differences between NPO and the current group. NPO was quite willing to hit their own allies. The list of allies turned enemies is a long one, FAN, NoV, Polar, ourselves, ect. It is these actions that really start to isolate powers as a critical mass of people who have lost trust in the ruling coalition start looking for other avenues to get revenge.

Edit: I stand quite corrected
[/quote]
Remind me when we hit TORN?

[Manis B]

I dont care about sides. GATO isnt going to choose the lesser of 2 evils. Im not getting roped into that game. so if that means we "dont add anything to the game" and are a "fringe alliance" thats fine. Id rather stay on our forums than read about all this self fulfilling nonsense about whos going to attack who because one time somebody did somthing about someones grandma.

[Branimir]

[quote name='Geoffron X' timestamp='1291052686' post='2525912']Remind me when we hit TORN?[/quote]
We never hit Polar either. He wanted to say, I gather, turning allies into enemies in sense of taking politically adversary attitudes towards them. Of course, its always a two way street, which wasn't mentioned. NPO eaten its allies just 'coz. I dont mind.

And indeed, that is a valid point he made. It is a difference, in a way--we didn't go out of our way to get along with people we didn't like or we stop liking, all the time. "Morally inferior" position or not, who cares! Unfortunately, too many lame people around here these days, less action, less drama. But boy, do they talk big heh

Edited November 29, 2010 by Branimir

[Geoffron X]

[quote name='Branimir' timestamp='1291055810' post='2525935']
We never hit Polar either. He wanted to say, I gather, turning allies into enemies in sense of taking politically adversary attitudes towards them. Of course, its always a two way street, which wasn't mentioned. NPO eaten its allies just 'coz. I dont mind.
[/quote]
At least with Polar it was somewhat understandable, in that while we ourselves didn't attack Polar, our allies did. With TORN, nothing remotely like that happened.

[Branimir]

[quote name='Geoffron X' timestamp='1291056370' post='2525942']
At least with Polar it was somewhat understandable, in that while we ourselves didn't attack Polar, our allies did. With TORN, nothing remotely like that happened.
[/quote]
He is just scared.

[Buds The Man]

[quote name='Branimir' timestamp='1291056551' post='2525944']
He is just scared.
[/quote]
Nope hes not