Backroom Extortion is Back

[HeroofTime55]

I don't have the time to see what exactly is going on at this point, but I will reiterate that 64Digits stands firmly with NSO. We will not stand idle as certain groups attempt to extort our Sith friends.

I hope that MK reconsiders their position on this matter.

Edited November 9, 2010 by HeroofTime55

[JD Storm]

64Digits is a most honorable alliance, unlike certain others who i won't name.

[delendum]

[quote name='Avenger' timestamp='1289281850' post='2507372']
What about the numerous explicit threats being tossed around by MK members in this thread? Obviously the government can control everything their members do so their threats are government-sanctioned.
[/quote]

Going by your logic, every person bashing us in this thread is representing their alliances will to start a war with us.

[quote name='Rebel Virginia' timestamp='1289281888' post='2507374']
[color="#0000FF"]Yes, I do, and if you were actually interested in talking with us and not just milking whatever cash and tech you could under threat of force you wouldn't have to be dealing with this mess right now. You can try to feign innocence all you want, but this is now out in the open for all to see. MK's heavy handed second face isn't hidden anymore.[/color]
[/quote]

Hey RV, lets say the gas-station clerk gives you less change than he should. Do you:

A: Explain that his calculation is wrong and ask for the correct change.
B: Gather a crowd of friends and start shouting "SATAN" at the gas station.

Pick one.

[Banksy]

[quote name='Avenger' timestamp='1289281850' post='2507372']
What about the numerous explicit threats being tossed around by MK members in this thread? Obviously the government can control everything their members do so their threats are government-sanctioned.
[/quote]
Yes, an those 'explicit threats' (you don't appear to have a working grasp of sarcasm) were not present in the channel at the time, and were hardly likely to effect the NSO's decision.

[quote name='Rebel Virginia' timestamp='1289281888' post='2507374']
[color="#0000FF"]Yes, I do, and if you were actually interested in talking with us and not just milking whatever cash and tech you could under threat of force you wouldn't have to be dealing with this mess right now. You can try to feign innocence all you want, but this is now out in the open for all to see. MK's heavy handed second face isn't hidden anymore.[/color][/quote]
The only thing that is out in the open is your (admittedly successful) attempt to wage a PR war. The logs quite clearly show no threats being made by MK, and your apparently uncharacteristic acceptance of 'outrageous' terms. The only reason we are 'heavy handed' is because you wanted to accept the 15m so you could post this thread.

[Mathias]

[quote name='HeroofTime55' timestamp='1289281977' post='2507376']
I don't have the time to see what exactly is going on at this point, but I will reiterate that 64Digits stands firmly with NSO. We will not stand idle as certain groups attempt to extort our Sith friends.

I hope that MK reconsiders their position on this matter.
[/quote]

Well now that we know 64Digits stands firmly with NSO, we most certainly will have to reevaluate our course of action.

[delendum]

[quote name='HeroofTime55' timestamp='1289281977' post='2507376']
I don't have the time to see what exactly is going on at this point, but I will reiterate that 64Digits stands firmly with NSO. We will not stand idle as certain groups attempt to extort our Sith friends.

I hope that MK reconsiders their position on this matter.
[/quote]

We most definitely would've if dialog would've been employed. We don't however back down to smear campaigns.

[quote name='JD Storm' timestamp='1289282047' post='2507377']
64Digits is a most honorable alliance, unlike certain others who i won't name.
[/quote]

You're about as subtle as a fainting goat.

[Kalasin]

[quote name='HeroofTime55' timestamp='1289281977' post='2507376']
I don't have the time to see what exactly is going on at this point, but I will reiterate that 64Digits stands firmly with NSO. We will not stand idle as certain groups attempt to extort our Sith friends.

I hope that MK reconsiders their position on this matter.
[/quote]

I was wondering what an alliance with less than ten members and 72 nukes thought about the issue.

[JD Storm]

[quote name='delendum' timestamp='1289282245' post='2507383']
You're about as subtle as a fainting goat.
[/quote]
never quite heard it put that way, before.

[Wyrmon]

[quote name='delendum' timestamp='1289282167' post='2507379']

lets say the gas-station clerk gives you less change than he should. Do you:

A: Explain that his calculation is wrong and ask for the correct change.
B: Gather a crowd of friends and start shouting "SATAN" at the gas station.

Pick one.
[/quote]

Actually, option B would be pretty hilarious.

[Haflinger]

[quote name='Karolina' timestamp='1289226678' post='2506066']
Everyone's had a back-collection messed up before. Get over it and move on.
[/quote]
Not me; I'm in a trade circle now but that's only since moving to Red. When I was Purple, I was always able to find temp trades.

Guess trades must be hard to find on Aqua

[quote name='Cager' timestamp='1289234164' post='2506154']
So for future reference folks, keep in mind if you discuss something with RV in backroom channels, there's a big chance it'll end up plastered here if he doesn't like what you have to say.
[/quote]
That's one of RV's better points.

[quote name='Sardonic' timestamp='1289235144' post='2506187']
I'm not saying they don't, that's clearly not what happened here though. He sacrificed all his trades and changed colors, he had to go a lot further than the other members of the circle. It doesn't make sense for him to just change his mind like that after coming so far. Clearly he was instructed. NSO government saw a chance to do economic damage to MK and took it, even though they knew they were throwing their member under the bus in the process, poor show NSO.
[/quote]
Are you serious?

Remember that this plan would only succeed if the MK members couldn't find a temp trade.

If you really believe this stuff, you need to lose the tinfoil.

[quote name='tamerlane' timestamp='1289240355' post='2506288']
We paid this guy to perform a service. Its the same thing as a tech deal. If we pay a tech seller in another alliance 3mil for 100 tech and that seller takes our money and is from what we can see by forum status and in game AA part of that alliance, we are gonna come knocking on that alliances door for our tech/money and they are going to be responsible Just as we would be if someone did that in our AA.
[/quote]
[url="http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=37010"]You mean, just like the GGA then right?[/url]

Sorry guys. You've left NPO's territory and are now heading for the GGA.

RV's posts in that thread are hilariously prophetic.

[quote name='Ivan Moldavi' timestamp='1289241713' post='2506319']
I think he is making it up anyway. What would Pierconium do with 2000 tech?
[/quote]
Have gorgeous aircraft and cruise missiles.

[quote name='2burnt2eat' timestamp='1289252654' post='2506534']
Just a few days ago, MK attacked President Hardin because they didn't like what he posted (i.e. telling Lebubu to stop being a troll). Oh, how I do reminiscence those days where [i]"you can't post something the Hegemony didn't like without being afraid of being attacked"[/i] was a talking point.
[/quote]
Well, that's interesting.

[img]http://web.me.com/danflemming/cn/hardin-mk.png[/img]

They did peace him out though. He's in World Federation now. So ... no permazi. That's something I guess.

[quote name='tamerlane' timestamp='1289255679' post='2506597']
Im arguing that if the terms were so outrageous, RV had every reason to negotiate down, he did not. That says something.
[/quote]
He offered what most alliances would take as the highest possible price right off the bat: he gave up his member.

He removed a nation from his alliance and OKed you guys to have at him.

Now, you may not consider members to be valuable, but most of the rest of us do.

[quote name='TheNeverender' timestamp='1289279246' post='2507325']
I got like...23 pages in and couldn't deal with anymore, went to back channels, and suddenly found progress.

A statement from the Kingdom is forthcoming.
[/quote]
Looking forward to it.

[Rebel Virginia]

[quote name='delendum' timestamp='1289282167' post='2507379']
Hey RV, lets say the gas-station clerk gives you less change than he should. Do you:

A: Explain that his calculation is wrong and ask for the correct change.
B: Gather a crowd of friends and start shouting "SATAN" at the gas station.

Pick one.
[/quote]
[color="#0000FF"]I'll try explaining the situation, but if the clerk doesn't lesson you better bet I'm going to take it up with the manager.[/color]

[Mathias]

[quote name='Rebel Virginia' timestamp='1289282539' post='2507390']
[color="#0000FF"]I'll try explaining the situation, but if the clerk doesn't lesson you better bet I'm going to take it up with the manager.[/color]
[/quote]

Following the logic of that analogy, you should have taken the issue up with either lebubu or Archon. You only made a slight miscalculation when you took the problem to the public, of course.

[Heft]

[quote name='delendum' timestamp='1289282245' post='2507383']
We most definitely would've if dialog would've been employed. We don't however back down to smear campaigns.
[/quote]
Apparently your idea of dialog is that we should have said "Hey, you don't actually mean X, what you really mean is Y." Which is kind of absurd. You came in with a hardline demand of 5X the actual amount. Now, we could either assume that you failed counting or that you're just being dicks. I guess be happy that we assumed a basic level of competence and that you actually knew what you were requesting.

[Banksy]

[quote name='Haflinger' timestamp='1289282460' post='2507389']
He offered what most alliances would take as the highest possible price right off the bat: he gave up his member.

He removed a nation from his alliance and OKed you guys to have at him.[/quote]
The party line is that he was a ghost with a forum mask iirc.

[northstars]

[quote name='Rebel Virginia' timestamp='1289282539' post='2507390']
[color="#0000FF"]I'll try explaining the situation, but if the clerk doesn't lesson you better bet I'm going to take it up with the manager.[/color]
[/quote]
no, you yelled "rape"

[delendum]

[quote name='Wyrmon' timestamp='1289282434' post='2507388']
Actually, option B would be pretty hilarious.
[/quote]

This thread is pretty hilarious.

[quote name='Haflinger' timestamp='1289282460' post='2507389']
Not me; I'm in a trade circle now but that's only since moving to Red. When I was Purple, I was always able to find temp trades.

Guess trades must be hard to find on Aqua


That's one of RV's better points.


Are you serious?

Remember that this plan would only succeed if the MK members couldn't find a temp trade.

If you really believe this stuff, you need to lose the tinfoil.


[url="http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=37010"]You mean, just like the GGA then right?[/url]

Sorry guys. You've left NPO's territory and are now heading for the GGA.

RV's posts in that thread are hilariously prophetic.


Have gorgeous aircraft and cruise missiles.


Well, that's interesting.

[img]http://web.me.com/danflemming/cn/hardin-mk.png[/img]

They did peace him out though. He's in World Federation now. So ... no permazi. That's something I guess.


He offered what most alliances would take as the highest possible price right off the bat: he gave up his member.

He removed a nation from his alliance and OKed you guys to have at him.

Now, you may not consider members to be valuable, but most of the rest of us do.


Looking forward to it.
[/quote]

Reading your reply, good sir, I find it hard to believe that this valuable member you're talking about here is the same "masked ghost" of earlier portrayals.

[tamerlane]

[quote name='Haflinger' timestamp='1289282460' post='2507389']


He offered what most alliances would take as the highest possible price right off the bat: he gave up his member.

He removed a nation from his alliance and OKed you guys to have at him.

Now, you may not consider members to be valuable, but most of the rest of us do.

[/quote]

Ummm... Must have been a very tough decision for him.

*looks as logs*

welp;

[delendum]

[quote name='Heft' timestamp='1289282671' post='2507392']
Apparently your idea of dialog is that we should have said "Hey, you don't actually mean X, what you really mean is Y." Which is kind of absurd. You came in with a hardline demand of 5X the actual amount. Now, we could either assume that you failed counting or that you're just being dicks. I guess be happy that we assumed a basic level of competence and that you actually knew what you were requesting.
[/quote]

Admittedly that was a pretty big fail on our part, however, you've spent an hour decrying the unfairness of the whole thing, while all of this could've been avoided by simply asking "why this much?"

[BlkAK47_002]

[quote name='delendum' timestamp='1289281754' post='2507370']
No, we weren't planning on attacking them, we were planning on getting compensation. The sum was a mistake which could've been corrected by dialog, but you're making it seem like this was some sort of pretext to get at NSO, and we really don't want that, if only because it would be a terrible waste of time and effort.
[/quote]
Don't get me wrong, I don't think this was premeditated at all. But the opportunity arose where you could either make NSO pay up, or roll them, and you took that opportunity. Your members expressed this clearly in the beginning of the thread. Now your tune has changed because you see public opinion turning against you. If Tamerlane and Bansky kept doing what they were doing roughly 20 pages back, then this situation would be salvageable. As I said before, by claiming that you weren't planning to attack them if they refused (and you quite obviously were)you just butchered any good defensive arguments you had going for you.

[delendum]

[quote name='BlkAK47_002' timestamp='1289282844' post='2507398']
Don't get me wrong, I don't think this was premeditated at all. But the opportunity arose where you could either make NSO pay up, or roll them, and you took that opportunity. Your members expressed this clearly in the beginning of the thread. Now your tune has changed because you see public opinion turning against you. If Tamerlane and Bansky kept doing what they were doing roughly 20 pages back, then this situation would be salvageable. As I said before, by claiming that you weren't planning to attack them if they refused (and you quite obviously were)you just butchered any good defensive arguments you had going for you.
[/quote]

I think all of us would've preferred this "opportunity" never arising. Now, lets get some things straight:

As far as I'm aware our tune hasn't changed. We are still expecting the same amount, which was agreed upon - the reason for this, even though it turned out to be a mistakingly huge sum - is because we refuse to bow down to smear campaigns.

It's common logic that there is a reaction to any action, you're just conveniently choosing to evidence that possible reaction because it sounds like we went in hoping to get NSO killed.

Also, I don't see anybody being overly defensive about this. We $%&@ed up with regards to the sum, NSO $%&@ed up with regards to the rest, and now we're both happily bathing together. Mind passing me the sponge?

[Rebel Virginia]

[quote name='Banksy' timestamp='1289282173' post='2507380']
The only thing that is out in the open is your (admittedly successful) attempt to wage a PR war. The logs quite clearly show no threats being made by MK, and your apparently uncharacteristic acceptance of 'outrageous' terms. The only reason we are 'heavy handed' is because you wanted to accept the 15m so you could post this thread.
[/quote]
[color="#0000FF"]No, I accepted the deal because I knew it was either that or a war we were sure to lose. MK may not have said it explicitly, you're good at covering yourself in that department, but you cannot deny that it wasn't implied. The only people who are saying otherwise happen to be MK and friends. Everyone sees through this lie.

So, why did I accept? I accepted because I did not wish to see the NSO burn for such a petty reason. MK would get its cheap change. But I know that if this kind of heavy handed backroom extortion can happen to us, chances are it will happen to others if it hasn't already. I've always advocated for making nonsense such as this public. This is something I've firmly believed since my days before Vox, when I was one of the few lone voices out against injustice. This plea for transparency ultimately gained steam in Vox, and its constant exposes of the NPO and its allies heavy handed tactics behind closed doors.

After Karma, I saw that power was going to corrupt the new world leaders eventually, so I started advocating for transparency, and I took up the fight for the underdog yet again. I have no vendetta or grudge against MK. MK was in fact at one point a favorite alliance of mine, and many of its members I still feel a certain affection for, so this is not personal on my end. I brought this to the public because it needed to be done. What you did was wrong, no matter who it was done to, and it is a side of your alliance that the public eye needs to see.

I can understand your feelings of shame and embarrassment. If you have any decency left in you, and I do hope that you do, you would feel such things. If you don't like what you see in the mirror, then correct it. But I am not going to hide this ugly side of you, especially not after you extorted by alliance under the implication of war, simply because you feel you are above public scrutiny and judgment.

I hope you learn that no one is above reprisal, not even yourselves. Eventually you will always have to answer to someone.[/color]

[Archon]

The Kingdom has issued the following statement: [url=http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=94470]http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=94470[/url]

[Mathias]

[quote name='TheNeverender' timestamp='1289283344' post='2507409']
The Kingdom has issued the following statement: [url=http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=94470]http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=94470[/url]
[/quote]

Hail our King and his glorious vision!

[BlkAK47_002]

[quote name='TheNeverender' timestamp='1289279246' post='2507325']
I got like...23 pages in and couldn't deal with anymore, went to back channels, and suddenly found progress.

A statement from the Kingdom is forthcoming.

OOC: Developing carpal tunnel is painful. Might be slow to write. Patience, s'il vous plait.
[/quote]
Holy hell

Try to take it easy man.

[Rebel Virginia]

[quote name='Mathias' timestamp='1289282633' post='2507391']
Following the logic of that analogy, you should have taken the issue up with either lebubu or Archon. You only made a slight miscalculation when you took the problem to the public, of course.
[/quote]
[color="#0000FF"]Everyone answers to the public eventually.[/color]