Backroom Extortion is Back

[Sandwich Controversy]

[quote name='Fernando12' timestamp='1289257451' post='2506661']
The Mushroom Kingdom had its opportunity to be reasonable. It waived it in favor of being ......

$1.5billion 25,000 (next time you lose a war) It will happen, you guys are !@#$@#$ up left and right that it will eventually happen.
[/quote]
OK. In the event of the Kingdom losing a major war we will accept these terms. You've now waived your opportunity to go harsher.

[tamerlane]

[quote name='BlkAK47_002' timestamp='1289257506' post='2506664']
You obviously haven't tasted our new stuff
[/quote]


Perhaps a cook-off is in order?

[Chaoshawk]

[quote name='Rebel Virginia' timestamp='1289257174' post='2506648']
[color="#0000FF"]I tried explaining that there was a misunderstanding, but they were not interested. Us trying to lie to and manipulate them makes for a much better story on their end, as untrue as it may be.[/color]
[/quote]
You didn't even try to negotiate payments your alliance would pay, so how do you know it would result in a war? It sounds more like paranoia than actual truth. It would of been better handled had you not partaken in this discussion half-asleep, then decide to rag on about it on the OWF.

[D34th]

A new excuse arises! RV is the one to be blamed for MK request 15m/250 tech since he didn't tried to negotiate!

This extortion is your fault RV!

[Dochartaigh]

[quote name='Yevgeni Luchenkov' timestamp='1289253592' post='2506554']
When members $%&@ up, it's not just an "individual" !@#$@#$ up. That individual is a member of an alliance and he's wearing colours. That's the basis of most CBs out there, that alliances are responsible for the actions of their members. How many were rolled for actually accepting information or having a spy in their midst? Did the whole alliance get rolled or just an individual?

Obviously, as the offense wasn't as serious, we didn't pursue war, despite NSO trying to throw their members out there as some kind of cheap bargaining tool.

Dochartaigh, if NSO had been so opposed to the ammount, don't you think that they would have tried to bring it down? We talked to three of their higher ups, and an imperator emeritus, and none of them has tried to bring the numbers down. Not once. They never counter-offered anything.

If they don't want to pay, next time, they can also, you know, negotiate.
[/quote]

1- it is typical to get rid of scammers from alliances as alliances tend to not want those kind of people in their alliance causing trouble.

2- you are correct they could have negotiated and one can argue they did that. they threw out the scammer (again as is a norm) and instead of MK being satisfied they continued to hardline extortion reps instead.

3- so fact is, they did throw out a counter-offer. you rejected it. so, to state they never counter-offered anything is a lie.

4- considering the past CBs used against NSO and the fact that you continue to harp, on the forums, about them "lying" about the status of the scammer as a member or a ghost, shows that most likely had they attempted negotiations, it would not have ended all honky-dory as you are trying to state it would.

5- the logs themselves show you harping about the scammers status within the alliance even after told he was no longer a member and ya'll were free to attack. it shows you hardlining extortion reps instead. makes one feel that there is no point in negotiating since ya'll would most likely stick to the extortion bit no matter what and should NSO not fall in line with it, war was a very likely possibility. and given MK's stance on reps at the end of wars lately, this extortion attempt could actually be called "token" by comparison to the amount of reps that NSO would have to pay at the end of a war with MK.

[Rebel Virginia]

[quote name='Banksy' timestamp='1289257200' post='2506650']
Yes, except refusing isn't the same as negotiating, is it?


Yev and Pip had already heard 3(?) sides of the story and were not interested in breaking dimensions to hear a fourth, I expect you're right. Hearing another story spun is different from negotiations.
[/quote]
[color="#0000FF"]Fourth? I was only the third person they spoke to that night. Kevin and Ashok were in the same conversation, and Kevin and Ashok and I more or less said the same thing. We explain that this person should not have been a member, and was only masked due to a clerical oversight. It isn't that hard to understand. But they weren't interested in listen, and when someone ain't interested in listen you better believe they ain't interested in negotiating.

That's said, it is irrelevant. When we found out he scammed MK he lost all rights to protection. He did not have support at all.[/color]

Edited November 8, 2010 by Rebel Virginia

[Dajobo]

This has been a fascinating read and I agree with many here, it was extortion.

15 million and 250 tech to have your name trashed. Poor decision MK

[heggo]

Come come, it's rude to not answer an Emperor's questions, especially when he's assuming the kindest of you:

[quote name='heggo' timestamp='1289256962' post='2506638']
You know, I've thought about this topic, and I've realized something: MK actually usually are really great people. Perhaps we just had a misunderstanding. Perhaps someone in their government just made a mistake, and accidentally thought that each member of that trade circle payed our ghost 3m/50t, thus making their request for 15m/250t perfectly reasonable. Now, I'll gladly pay out the full 15m/250t myself if it turns out this wasn't just a misunderstanding, but for now I'll just stick with having sent the 3m/50t so MK wouldn't have to go to the trouble of sending the extra money back later after the issue is cleared up.

Oh, and I'd like a response from MK gov about this- regular MK members simply aren't enough to resolve the question of whether or not all we had here was a plain everyday misunderstanding. You know, I understand that disagreements happen and hope that we can all work past our pride and come to a clean and nice conclusion here.
[/quote]

[Sandwich Controversy]

[quote name='heggo' timestamp='1289257742' post='2506675']
Come come, it's rude to not answer an Emperor's questions, especially when he's assuming the kindest of you:
[/quote]
You appear to have ignored our official response.

[Fernando12]

[quote name='Sandwich Controversy' timestamp='1289257548' post='2506667']
OK. In the event of the Kingdom losing a major war we will accept these terms. You've now waived your opportunity to go harsher.
[/quote]
No. Future inflation adjustments and all, plus at the rate you guys are going you will only increase your tab by the time you do lose a future major war.

Edited November 8, 2010 by Fernando12

[El Hefe]

I'm so conflicted.... I really don't like NSO, and yet for some reason these logs make me agree with their side >_<

[Rebel Virginia]

[color="#0000FF"]MK, if this was a case of misunderstanding, please let us know. We'll send the 3/50t right now, and the rest later if all your trade circle fellows paid that much each.[/color]

[Moridin]

[quote name='heggo' timestamp='1289257742' post='2506675']Come come, it's rude to not answer an Emperor's questions, especially when he's assuming the kindest of you:[/quote]

I highly doubt anyone in MK would have thought they had actually paid a full 15m/250 tech for a trade. I'm pretty sure they're smarter than that.

[Banksy]

[quote name='Sandwich Controversy' timestamp='1289257548' post='2506667']
OK. In the event of the Kingdom losing a major war we will accept these terms. You've now waived your opportunity to go harsher.
[/quote]
The never will learn to negotiate...


[quote name='D34th' timestamp='1289257625' post='2506670']
A new excuse arises! RV is the one to be blamed for MK request 15m/250 tech since he didn't tried to negotiate!

This extortion is your fault RV!
[/quote]
Yes, congratulations on missing the point. The 'extortion' isn't his fault as Yev and Pip proposed the figure, but he clearly intended to post a thread of this nature, shown by his unwillingness to negotiate or bring the price down.

[quote name='Rebel Virginia' timestamp='1289257641' post='2506672']
[color="#0000FF"]But they weren't interested in listen, and when someone ain't interested in listen you better believe they ain't interested in negotiating.

That's said, it is irrelevant. When we found out he scammed MK he lost all rights to protection. He did not have support at all.[/color]
[/quote]
Are you in the habit of making these broad assumptions? Because by making this one you appear to have cost your alliance (apparently) quite a hefty sum of money. We are expected to believe that, despite the complete absence of any displayed intent to negotiate, you were entering those talks in 'good faith,' and not to simply wage some pitiful PR war? It is completely unreasonable think that despite your apparent horror at the sum of 15m (which you never conveyed to us) you were never going to challenge that figure, unless this thread was you intention.

[Sal Paradise]

I'm seeing a lot of "RV should have negotiated" and irrelevant debate on whether the nation is a member of NSO. What I haven't noticed (and maybe I've skimmed too much) is anybody from MK or their supporters arguing that the additional compensation for lost trades is justified.

Why haven't the brilliant minds of the Mushroom Kingdom put their efforts toward this, the only issue relevant? All I'm seeing are red herrings and tired cliches straight from the NPO playbook. There used to be a time when members of MK made intelligent comments here. I suppose you've all gone lazy, or maybe this NPO-like mouth-breathing thuggery is symptomatic of having to dishonestly defend the indefensible. I guess it wasn't Hegemony policy itself that made every supporter into a drooling buffoon, but the very nature of power. And now that idiocy has infected you all.

Edited November 8, 2010 by Sal Paradise

[Ardus]

[quote name='Sal Paradise' timestamp='1289258180' post='2506688']
I'm seeing a lot of "RV should have negotiated" and irrelevant debate on whether the nation is a member of NSO. What I haven't noticed (and maybe I've skimmed too much) is anybody from MK or their supporters arguing that the additional compensation for lost trades is justified.

Why haven't the brilliant minds of the Mushroom Kingdom put their efforts toward this, the only issue relevant? All I'm seeing are red herrings and tired cliches straight from the NPO playbook. There used to be a time when members of MK made intelligent comments here. I suppose you've all gone lazy, or maybe this NPO-like mouth-breathing thuggery is symptomatic of having to dishonestly defend the indefensible. I guess it wasn't Hegemony policy itself that made every supporter into a drooling buffoon, but the very nature of power. And now that idiocy has infected you all.
[/quote]
We have on a couple of occasions. Most folks just disagreed and we moved on to the next facet of the subject.

[Fernando12]

[quote name='Banksy' timestamp='1289258156' post='2506686']
Yes, congratulations on missing the point. The 'extortion' isn't his fault as Yev and Pip proposed the figure, but he clearly intended to post a thread of this nature, shown by his unwillingness to negotiate or bring the price down.

[/quote]
Dude, did your really just say that? Oh my Admin! RV, wanted to pay this extortion just to post this? Bansky, you are a bit dumb.

[Sal Paradise]

[quote name='Ardus' timestamp='1289258302' post='2506690']
We have on a couple of occasions. Most folks just disagreed and we moved on to the next facet of the subject.
[/quote]

All I've seen is "because NSO deserves it" and "deal with it"

See my comment on mouth-breathing thuggery.

Edited November 8, 2010 by Sal Paradise

[Alterego]

[quote name='Banksy' timestamp='1289257319' post='2506655']
Yes, because RV accepted the sum and didn't question it. We are unable to negotiate on his behalf and hold his hand as that does go against the entire point of negotiating.
[/quote]


[b]<Yevgeni> 3m-50t for each of the trade partners.
<Yevgeni> So 15m-250t.[/b]
<Yevgeni> Shouldn't be too complicated, a single nation can pay that within a single cycle.
[b]<Rebel_Virginia> You'll get your money, but know we ain't happy about it.[/b]
<Yevgeni> Understood. If I may offer a word of advice, next time, tell your colleagues not to try to take the other party for complete morons.
<Rebel_Virginia> Is that supposed to mean something?
<Yevgeni> That whole episode where they denied the guy's membership was really ridiculous.
<Rebel_Virginia> Are you a bit upset that you did not get the respect you believe you're entitled too?
[b]<Rebel_Virginia> Just out of curiosity, what if we did refuse to pay?[/b]
<Yevgeni> When I deal with another alliance, I don't expect them to try to !@#$%^&* me about the status of one of their long-time members.
<Yevgeni> Much less spend one hour denying overwhelming evidence.
<Rebel_Virginia> Now, what about my other question?
<Rebel_Virginia> Also, if he was more or less a masked ghost.
[b]<Epiphanus> Well that really depends,[/b] what matters is you are paying.
[b]<Yevgeni> It isn't up to me to decide what will happen if you refuse to pay. [/b]



MK came in with a demand. RV said you would get it and asked what would happen if they didnt pay [b]that price[/b]. You didnt say it was open to negotiation. Thats the price you were told to demand, you had no other information thats why they couldnt give an answer about any consequences of failing to pay the full $15m and 250 tech.

Edited November 8, 2010 by Alterego

[Ardus]

[quote name='Sal Paradise' timestamp='1289258396' post='2506692']
All I've seen is "because NSO deserves it" and "deal with it"

See my comment on mouth-breathing thuggery.
[/quote]
I assure you it's back there somewhere. I'd do you the favor I refused shashsahasnanannana and dig it up, but I'm a little busy.

[AirMe]

[quote name='tamerlane' timestamp='1289257043' post='2506642']
We at least sought mediation and tried to negotiate despite that feeling, Airme.

Yes, we are monsters for our deeds. We also stole NPO's baby recipe and perfected it.
[/quote]

Well hey, you know what they say about those who forget about the past.

[Dochartaigh]

[quote name='Banksy' timestamp='1289258156' post='2506686']
The never will learn to negotiate...



Yes, congratulations on missing the point. The 'extortion' isn't his fault as Yev and Pip proposed the figure, but he clearly intended to post a thread of this nature, shown by his unwillingness to negotiate or bring the price down.


Are you in the habit of making these broad assumptions? Because by making this one you appear to have cost your alliance (apparently) quite a hefty sum of money. We are expected to believe that, despite the complete absence of any displayed intent to negotiate, you were entering those talks in 'good faith,' and not to simply wage some pitiful PR war? It is completely unreasonable think that despite your apparent horror at the sum of 15m (which you never conveyed to us) you were never going to challenge that figure, unless this thread was you intention.
[/quote]

ya'll keep stating his "unwillingness" to negotiate when the very act of stating the scammer is no longer protected is itself negotiating. NSO gave you the actual scammer, the one who actually victimized your member. MK dismissed that and everything else and continued to demand extortion instead.

ya'll need to stop with the "unwillingness" to negotiate when there was an attempt that was dismissed and instead of counter-offering a lower number ya'll continued with the same number. that makes it appear ya'll are unwilling to negotiate in faith and thus, there is no need to negotiate since it is obvious that MK would not negotiate in return.

so, how about we begin discussing MK's unwillingness to negotiate instead of RV's?

[tamerlane]

[quote name='Fernando12' timestamp='1289258334' post='2506691']
Dude, did your really just say that? Oh my Admin! RV, wanted to pay this extortion just to post this? Bansky, you are a bit dumb.
[/quote]


I agree. Now on to our reparations when we lose the impending war... now how long do we have to pay the 1.5bil 25k tech?

[Ashok]

[quote name='Sandwich Controversy' timestamp='1289257825' post='2506677']
You appear to have ignored our official response.
[/quote]

Sandwich we are thinking the kindest of you in this regard please just answer our Emperor's question.

[quote]You know, I've thought about this topic, and I've realized something: MK actually usually are really great people. Perhaps we just had a misunderstanding. Perhaps someone in their government just made a mistake, and accidentally thought that each member of that trade circle payed our ghost 3m/50t, thus making their request for 15m/250t perfectly reasonable. Now, I'll gladly pay out the full 15m/250t myself if it turns out this wasn't just a misunderstanding, but for now I'll just stick with having sent the 3m/50t so MK wouldn't have to go to the trouble of sending the extra money back later after the issue is cleared up.

Oh, and I'd like a response from MK gov about this- regular MK members simply aren't enough to resolve the question of whether or not all we had here was a plain everyday misunderstanding. You know, I understand that disagreements happen and hope that we can all work past our pride and come to a clean and nice conclusion here.[/quote]

[tamerlane]

[quote name='AirMe' timestamp='1289258498' post='2506697']
Well hey, you know what they say about those who forget about the past.
[/quote]

Thank you for ignoring my point, the point of departure where NSO is considered similar to us.

Edited November 8, 2010 by tamerlane