Global Power Rankings

[D34th]

[quote name='Olaf Styke' timestamp='1283467379' post='2439564']
ITT Haters try desperately to deny we're a powerhouse and fail.

Let me lay it down for you:

1) SpAthODNoB
2) List of Alliances we're treatied with.
3) The Rest

You may now feel free to continue kissing eachother's asses, or yell yourself hoarse trying to convince everyone that admin mistakenly left off a zero, and that Sparta is actually ranked 50th and not 5th.

Either way it's entertainment.

Edit: I should note that this carefully considered ranking of relevant alliances is based on the 'Olaf Bias Index', which ranks alliances based on how amused I am with them at any given moment.
[/quote]

umad

Ps: I was missing your posts, please post more.

[Olaf Styke]

[quote name='D34th' timestamp='1283469706' post='2439582']
umad

Ps: I was missing your posts, please post more.
[/quote]

I missed you too, but I'm back from vacation now. <3

[Xavii]

Sparta my dear friends, do you stuff correctly next time around and you won't need to defend yourself, your crushed enemies will do it for you.

[Hyperion321]

[quote name='Xavii' timestamp='1283473334' post='2439626']
Sparta my dear friends, do your stuff correctly next time around and you won't need to defend yourself, your crushed enemies will do it for you.
[/quote]
Olaf doesn't like doing things correctly - he's a rebel.

[Alterego]

[b]1. MK[/b]
[b]Treaties & foreign policy[/b]
[i]
Important treaties.[/i]
MADP C&G
MDoAP Rok, GOD [i]2 SF alliances[/i]
MDoAP Umbrella, FOB (MADP) [i]2 NOIR alliances[/i]
MDoAP STA, NpO, FOK

[b]Physical power[/b]

10m NS
212 members
100 Weapons Research Complexes
124 Hidden Nuclear Missile Silos
156 Manhattan Projects
153 Strategic Defense Initiatives
High ave NS [i]46,138 [/i]
127 Pentagons (could do better[i]166 nations at 4999 infra[/i])
2:1 ratio infra to tech
3300 nukes with wonders can rise to 3740

Serious threats short to medium term, none. It would take an massive implosion or a Ram moment or three to topple them from top spot.

Edited September 3, 2010 by Alterego

[Drai]

Pentagons aren't very useful until you need them for the WRC.

[Alterego]

[quote name='Drai' timestamp='1283546321' post='2440687']
Pentagons aren't very useful until you need them for the WRC.
[/quote]
Every little helps.

[Noob Cake]

[quote name='Alterego' timestamp='1283535607' post='2440547']
[b]1. MK[/b]
[b]Treaties & foreign policy[/b]
[i]
Important treaties.[/i]
MADP C&G
MDoAP Rok, GOD [i]2 SF alliances[/i]
MDoAP Umbrella, FOB (MADP) [i]2 NOIR alliances[/i]
MDoAP STA, NpO, FOK

[b]Physical power[/b]

10m NS
212 members
100 Weapons Research Complexes
124 Hidden Nuclear Missile Silos
156 Manhattan Projects
153 Strategic Defense Initiatives
High ave NS [i]46,138 [/i]
127 Pentagons (could do better[i]166 nations at 4999 infra[/i])
2:1 ratio infra to tech
3300 nukes with wonders can rise to 3740

Serious threats short to medium term, none. It would take an massive implosion or a Ram moment or three to topple them from top spot.
[/quote]
6.3m NS

77 members

82k avg ns

7.9k avg tech

1:1 ratio infra to tech

[Monster]

That doesn't really detract from Alterego's points as stats aren't everything. Let's not get carried away.

Edited September 3, 2010 by Antoine Roquentin

[lonewolfe2015]

[quote name='Alterego' timestamp='1283549860' post='2440722']
Every little helps.
[/quote]

It really depends on the nation you're analyzing. 5k infra is way easy to reach these days, and most nations don't begin their wonder cycles until the 3k-4k infra plateau. Given that reaching 5k infra is so quick, you could easily expect to see nations with a mere SSS, SM, MP, SDI and DRA at the 5k infra landmark who still have a long way to go before their Pentagon would be the best wonder choice. So if it's an old nation, you may have a point.

Hell I'm at 8k infra and I [i]just[/i] bought mine because other military wonders are more useful before hand and I only wanted the Pent to reach my WRC before long.

[Alterego]

[quote name='Noob Cake' timestamp='1283551108' post='2440742']
6.3m NS

77 members

82k avg ns

7.9k avg tech

1:1 ratio infra to tech
[/quote]
If Umberella was a member of C&G I would put them as close second. The MADP bloc trumps everyone else and puts them as the global power. 1v1 with more than twice the nations to absorb nukes and about twice the WRCs & Man Pros MK has the clear edge.

[Hyperion321]

[quote name='Antoine Roquentin' timestamp='1283551353' post='2440747']
That doesn't really detract from Alterego's points as stats aren't everything. Let's not get carried away.
[/quote]
This man speaks the truth. However, MK and Umbrella are both so damn politically secure and militarily efficient that both of you are pretty much untouchable anyway. Either one of you could be top dog to be honest.

Edited September 3, 2010 by Hyperion321

[Drai]

[quote name='Alterego' timestamp='1283549860' post='2440722']
Every little helps.
[/quote]
That's not exactly a great response for the point I was making. What I'm saying is there are much better options at 5k infra. Obviously a pentagon would be nice to have at that level but when you still have military wonders like the FAB, CIA, MP, and SDI the Pentagon is pretty low on the priority list. Not to mention some of the economic options that would outweigh the pros of the pentagon.

Edited September 4, 2010 by Drai

[Alterego]

[quote name='Drai' timestamp='1283567372' post='2441010']
That's not exactly a great response for the point I was making. What I'm saying is there are much better options at 5k infra. Obviously a pentagon would be nice to have at that level but when you still have military wonders like the FAB, CIA, MP, and SDI the Pentagon is pretty low on the priority list. Not to mention some of the economic options that would outweigh the pros of the pentagon.
[/quote]

You dont start buying wonders or want to get checked out if you only start buying wonders at 4999 infra. The move from 3999 infra to 4999 infra in $70 million give or take a million. Only being able to buy one wonder a month makes the stock market the right next move at 3999. By the time you make the jump to 4999 you should have or be nearly finished the big 3 econ wonders. So you should never be at 4999 with zero wonders. The military wonders you mention are all fine wonders but to say the better option at 5k infra is FAB, CIA, MP, and SDI is incorrect.

FAB, costs too much at that size to buy & keep and costs money every air attack it also assumes you have a nice pile of tech at 5k for buying lvl 9s
CIA, 5k and no nukes whats the point, even with nukes $40 for the wonder and $80m for the spies?
MP, great to have this is the best option but over 3 times the price then buying and upkeep on nukes
SDI, its a 6k infra wonder unless people can afford to give up 6 improvements at 4999 infra

Pentagon, $30m good for the GAs which is the main battle type

Assuming you have the big 3 econ wonders its probably only 2nd to the Man Pro (buying but not getting the nukes). If there is a war coming get the man pro but this implies the person has $100m for the wonder, millions for the nukes and enough to fight a war. Alternatively, if war is coming get a pentagon. Its only $30m and gives you an edge over other 49999 guys with similar nations, not including people with lots of wonders at 4999. My question to them would be what the hell are you doing at 5k infra with tons of wonders.

If you have a good aid programme going the $30m s nothing, just a 450 infra gump from 3999 infra. However if you are an alliance who talks war, thinks war and is very wealthy then you want to give your 4999 infra nations the pentagon early. If war was likely I would even get the 3999 guys a chunk of aid and have them buy one. [u]I will concede that I thought they were $20m when I made the comment though, inflation[/u]

MK specific

160 Great Monuments
171 Great Temples
161 Internet Systems
182 Social Security Systems
186 Stock Markets

156 Foreign Airforce Base
157 Manhattan Projects
154 Strategic Defense Initiatives



[b]128 Pentagons[/b]

MK is well covered with all these wonders but didnt make any attempt to keep pace with Pentagons. 30 pentagons light even after getting all the better wonders is a choice. If you asked me before a war if I would rather have them or not have them I would have them in a heartbeat.

Edited September 4, 2010 by Alterego

[Lezrahi]

[table]
[tr]
[th]Alliance[/th]
[th]Total Nations[/th]
[th]Number of Weapons Research Complexes[/th]
[th]Technology[/th]
[th]Average Nation Strength[/th]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]Umbrella[/td]
[td]77[/td]
[td]54 (70%)[/td]
[td]607,613 (7891.08 average)[/td]
[td]82,008 (#2)[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]The Order of the Black Rose[/td]
[td]21[/td]
[td]11 (52%)[/td]
[td]121,932 (5542.36 average)[/td]
[td]82,097 (#1)[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]Mushroom Kingdom[/td]
[td]213[/td]
[td]100 (47%)[/td]
[td]707,190 (3320.14 average)[/td]
[td]46,228 (#17)[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]Poison Clan[/td]
[td]78[/td]
[td]35 (45%)[/td]
[td]256,217 (3284.83 average)[/td]
[td]52,444 (#9)[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]The Order of the Paradox[/td]
[td]204[/td]
[td]204 (56%)[/td]
[td]493,102 (2417.17 average)[/td]
[td]37,509 (#36)[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]Ordinary Men Fighting Giants[/td]
[td]21[/td]
[td]8 (38%)[/td]
[td]83,028 (3953.71 average)[/td]
[td]59,902 (#3)[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]Fear None, Kill All[/td]
[td]21[/td]
[td]9 (43%)[/td]
[td]72,335 (3444.52 average)[/td]
[td]53,246 (#7)[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]World Task Force[/td]
[td]174[/td]
[td]56 (32%)[/td]
[td]569,753 (3312.52 average)[/td]
[td]56,669 (#4)[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]Old Guard[/td]
[td]25[/td]
[td]10 40%)[/td]
[td]79,324 (3172.96 average)[/td]
[td]51,635 (#8)[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]Argent[/td]
[td]64[/td]
[td]24 (38%)[/td]
[td]234,965 (3671.33 average)[/td]
[td]50,222 (#10)[/td]
[/tr]
[/table]

Note: This list is tentative. I'm sure it's not entirely accurate, and some alliances not listed should probably be in there. The Prolific Empire, for example. However, I got lazy, and my aforementioned horniness expired.

Also, I am aware that it's not appearing correctly, but you know what, I really don't give a $%&@. Obviously, this forum's BBCode sucks in some way, because it should work the way that it is. Whatever.

[Drai]

[quote name='Alterego' timestamp='1283589414' post='2441249']
You dont start buying wonders or want to get checked out if you only start buying wonders at 4999 infra. The move from 3999 infra to 4999 infra in $70 million give or take a million. Only being able to buy one wonder a month makes the stock market the right next move at 3999. By the time you make the jump to 4999 you should have or be nearly finished the big 3 econ wonders. So you should never be at 4999 with zero wonders. The military wonders you mention are all fine wonders but to say the better option at 5k infra is FAB, CIA, MP, and SDI is incorrect.

FAB, costs too much at that size to buy & keep and costs money every air attack it also assumes you have a nice pile of tech at 5k for buying lvl 9s
CIA, 5k and no nukes whats the point, even with nukes $40 for the wonder and $80m for the spies?
MP, great to have this is the best option but over 3 times the price then buying and upkeep on nukes
SDI, its a 6k infra wonder unless people can afford to give up 6 improvements at 4999 infra

Pentagon, $30m good for the GAs which is the main battle type

Assuming you have the big 3 econ wonders its probably only 2nd to the Man Pro (buying but not getting the nukes). If there is a war coming get the man pro but this implies the person has $100m for the wonder, millions for the nukes and enough to fight a war. Alternatively, if war is coming get a pentagon. Its only $30m and gives you an edge over other 49999 guys with similar nations, not including people with lots of wonders at 4999. My question to them would be what the hell are you doing at 5k infra with tons of wonders.

If you have a good aid programme going the $30m s nothing, just a 450 infra gump from 3999 infra. However if you are an alliance who talks war, thinks war and is very wealthy then you want to give your 4999 infra nations the pentagon early. If war was likely I would even get the 3999 guys a chunk of aid and have them buy one. [u]I will concede that I thought they were $20m when I made the comment though, inflation[/u]

MK specific

160 Great Monuments
171 Great Temples
161 Internet Systems
182 Social Security Systems
186 Stock Markets

156 Foreign Airforce Base
157 Manhattan Projects
154 Strategic Defense Initiatives



[b]128 Pentagons[/b]

MK is well covered with all these wonders but didnt make any attempt to keep pace with Pentagons. 30 pentagons light even after getting all the better wonders is a choice. If you asked me before a war if I would rather have them or not have them I would have them in a heartbeat.
[/quote]
Pentagon is basically a waste of a month of buying wonders. It hardly boosts your battle odds at all, and this isn't even at 'every little bit helps' levels. This is so minimal it's really only worthwhile the month before you get the WRC.

Also I'm not saying to get all of those military wonders at 5k infra. 6k is a good point for most of them since you'll be getting a good 3-5 economic wonders beforehand (and at 6k infra with a handful of economic wonders, most of your argument against them would be irrelevant in terms of being unable to manage the upkeep). Like I said before, the Pentagon shouldn't be until just before the WRC so somewhere around 8k, which falls after the aforementioned wonders.

[Alterego]

[quote name='Drai' timestamp='1283608273' post='2441332']
Pentagon is basically a waste of a month of buying wonders. It hardly boosts your battle odds at all, and this isn't even at 'every little bit helps' levels. This is so minimal it's really only worthwhile the month before you get the WRC.

Also I'm not saying to get all of those military wonders at 5k infra. 6k is a good point for most of them since you'll be getting a good 3-5 economic wonders beforehand (and at 6k infra with a handful of economic wonders, most of your argument against them would be irrelevant in terms of being unable to manage the upkeep). Like I said before, the Pentagon shouldn't be until just before the WRC so somewhere around 8k, which falls after the aforementioned wonders.
[/quote]
I prefer war wonders to econ wonders. Dismissing any war wonder besides the FSS (which is good on the larger side of a war) is like [u]totally [/u]dismissing a lesser econ wonder. It works it helps it should be bought. I would have someones head on a stick if they bought even the best ecoon wonder over any war wonder if war was on the cards. Deciding to keep it to later is a reasonable strategy but dismissing it [u]totally [/u]until buying a WRC is an error of judgement.

Hey, your alliance you can do as you please. My post my opinion. You could still do better on the pentagon front.

Edited September 4, 2010 by Alterego

[Drai]

Ok, we'll remember that when BAPS' superb pentagon force blows through our 5k infra nations

Note: none of what you said changes how useless the pentagon is by itself.

Edited September 4, 2010 by Drai

[Noob Cake]

[quote name='Drai' timestamp='1283619364' post='2441477']
Ok, we'll remember that when BAPS' superb pentagon force blows through our 5k infra nations

Note: none of what you said changes how useless the pentagon is by itself.
[/quote]

Pentagon is awesome when you can decom it to get below auto victory odds. Dirt cheap too.

Edited September 4, 2010 by Noob Cake

[Alterego]

[quote name='Drai' timestamp='1283619364' post='2441477']
Ok, we'll remember that when BAPS' superb pentagon force blows through our 5k infra nations

Note: none of what you said changes how useless the pentagon is by itself.
[/quote]
Yes remember that and remember how you managed to turn a compliment from someone who hates your alliance into you ranting over nothing. If I had known compliments caused you guys to totally wig out I would have been complimenting you all along.

Edited September 5, 2010 by Alterego

[Drai]

[quote name='Alterego' timestamp='1283646601' post='2441930']
Yes remember that and remember how you managed to turn a compliment from someone who hates your alliance into you ranting over nothing. If I had known compliments caused you guys to totally wig out I would have been complimenting you all along.
[/quote]
This actually crossed my mind as I began the discussion on pentagons. If it means anything at this point I appreciate the recognition you gave to our stats and political position earlier.

On the topic of actual rankings, I've been trying to think of something useful but original. However it seems most people have done the traditional MK/Umbrella/NPO/TOP/some SF alliance as the top 5 and for good reason.

[The Corrupt Teacher]

Its been done to death but:

1. MK
2. Umbrella
3. PC
4. TOP
5. NpO
6. FOK
7. Rok
8. Fark
9. Valhalla
10. FAN/NoR (tie)

Others: Athens, ODN, NPO, NV, Fark, VE and STA

[MagicalTrevor]

Based on political capital and how key they would be as "swing" in a war.

1. MK
2. GOD
3. Umbrella
4. TOP
5. NpO
6. FoK
7. NPO
8. VE
9. STA
10. NV

The other "major" players in the SG blocs (ODN Athens & FARK/RoK) slot in at around 5-6 but i can't be bothered to just list blocs.
In terms of military, TOP MK & Umbrella are far and away the best organised and destructive. Followed by a group of PC NoR FoK Val(before their stats got trashed by Umbrella) and a few others that i'm just going to ignore because im tired.


Also i swear alterego was being reasonable in this thread, i for one am shocked.

[fant0m]

Politically:

1) MK
2) Everyone else
3) UPN

Military powers:

1) MK
2) TOP
3) Umbrella
4) FOK
5) PC
6) VE
7) Valhalla
8) FAN
9) BAPS
10) NoR