Joint VE/GOONS Announcement

[Beefspari]

[quote name='Branimir' timestamp='1282745874' post='2430809']
This coming from such a fine gentleman as yourself, I am sure is correct. [/quote]
Probably at least slightly more accurate than the opinion on what our treaty means by someone who has a strong bias against us.

[Branimir]

[quote name='Beefspari' timestamp='1282746483' post='2430818']Probably at least slightly more accurate than the opinion on what our treaty means by someone who has a strong bias against us.[/quote]
For the record, before the Admin almighty, I want to make the record straight. I, really dont have a strong bias against the GOONS 2. I don't mind you much, you arent relevant to my interests.

You see, I have a weakness though. Its the call of an open field, its the joy of poking fun,....Harsh be my predicament sometimes but its all in the name of FunandFun. Though sometimes, sharp my fun can be.

[Haflinger]

[quote name='Sandwich Controversy' timestamp='1282746073' post='2430813']
What does IRON have to do with WUT?
[/quote]
Doh! My bad. Substitute TOP in.

[Schattenmann]

[quote name='Sardonic' timestamp='1282743805' post='2430774']
OOC:
If you are a real goon, link your SA account.
IC:
Your inane "no sir it is u who are the one who is crying" arguments are boring, try harder.
[/quote]
[url="http://forums.somethingawful.com/member.php?action=getinfo&userid=129942"]Schattenmann[/url] I registered 7 years late. I've been with SA since Sam Jain's escspades caused monthly server switches, got my only HS detention for laughing too loudly at Cliff Yablonski, wept when Lowtax's fiance turned out to be a psycho, forced myself to listen to the entire ARC CD, read [u]My Tank is Fight[/u], etc.

I replied to your retort, you ignored me and then claimed I'm crying. The tears thing is your gig, own it. ChairmanHal has since outlined why I'm correct, so run with that if you wish.

[quote name='ChairmanHal' timestamp='1282744437' post='2430782']
Actually they were essentially the same GOONS 2.0 that "came back from the Moon" that I experienced "elsewhere". Fortunately it seems they left Saniel behind or at least shoved him out an airlock in transit...good call.



This GOONS contains enough experienced leadership both here and "elsewhere" many of those lessons should have already been learned. They aren't an up and coming alliance that is run by people who simply were naive about the way Planet Bob works and were learning on the job. This GOONS 2.x, raids as frequently as GOONS 1.0, has the same off world connections as GOONS 1.0, bullies small alliances as much as GOONS 1.0, and purposely and cynically positions itself in the treaty such that those who would do something about their behavior find them untouchable, just like GOONS 1.0. You say they aren't the same animal. True, but the odd thing about ducks is that they are always ducks. Not the exact same thing, but certainly the same breed.

All that said, I think that GOONS 2.x leadership understands that unless they continue to evolve they will ultimately meet the same fate as GOONS 1.0. Indeed the same fate as GOONS 2.0 "elsewhere". This GOONS actually apologizes for the more moronic activities of some of its members for example. You can only depend upon the treaty web to protect your backside for so long.

Anything calling itself GOONS (whatever you want to say the acronym stands for) is always going to be held to a higher standard of behavior and be called for missteps faster by its critics. If GOONS doesn't like it, they have a few options: prove the critics wrong every day, ignore the critics hope that their luck doesn't run out, or disband. It is no different than those that dared to don the black and gold of \m/ faced, and before them to a large extent (though certainly they aren't as infamous) the green of VE.
[/quote]Saniel isn't around because he's on the Enemies of Admin list, if you get my drift. Mean Mr Mustard smote him during the GOONland Resistance Movement.

Edited August 25, 2010 by Schattenmann

[Fallen Fool]

[quote name='Solaris' timestamp='1282630547' post='2429060']
Thank you for your invaluable analysis and projection.
[/quote]Anytime.

[quote name='Bob Janova' timestamp='1282736751' post='2430689']To put it simply: we disagree. We don't believe that we'll see their 'old antics', we believe that GOONS are looking for an opportunity to demonstrate to the world that they are [i]not[/i] the old GOONS and, after extensive discussions with them, we believe them and are prepared to sign a treaty with them.[/quote]Congratulations! You've been swayed by the exact same argument which initally won me over back when we signed with GOONS!

Edited August 25, 2010 by Fallen Fool

[Biazt]

OOC:
This thread just keeps getting more hilarious as it goes on. From the generic GOONS are the same as old GOONS arguments to Branimir's failed attempts at an in-joke to Schatt's desperate scramble to prove that he's a "real goon" by posting his account registered in 2008 but listing a bunch of SA references to somehow compensate this thread has delivered beyond all of my wildest dreams.

Edit: Do you see? This post has an in-joke as well as a SA reference! It's absolutely golden!

Edited August 25, 2010 by Biazt

[Creeping Death]

[quote name='Fallen Fool' timestamp='1282751251' post='2430890']
Anytime.

Congratulations! You've been swayed by the exact same argument which initally won me over back when we signed with GOONS!
[/quote]

So you are attempting to say that when you signed with the old GOONS you actually believed they had good intentions?

[Fallen Fool]

[quote name='Creeping Death' timestamp='1282752053' post='2430905']So you are attempting to say that when you signed with the old GOONS you actually believed they had good intentions?[/quote]I wasn't in Polar when they signed with old GOONS. What I was referencing was my rather supportive attitude when Polar helped bring new GOONS back from the dead.

[Creeping Death]

[quote name='Fallen Fool' timestamp='1282752449' post='2430911']
I wasn't in Polar when they signed with old GOONS. What I was referencing was my rather supportive attitude when Polar helped bring new GOONS back from the dead.
[/quote]

Oh, I see.. so then what made you change your mind about their appeal?

[Sardonic]

[quote name='Fallen Fool' timestamp='1282751251' post='2430890']
Congratulations! You've been swayed by the exact same argument which initally won me over back when we signed with GOONS!
[/quote]
The argument is just as valid now as it was back then. Were it not for the incident with Grub I am sure we would be on much better terms.

[Schattenmann]

[quote name='Biazt' timestamp='1282751986' post='2430903']
This thread just keeps getting more hilarious as it goes on. From the generic GOONS are the same as old GOONS arguments to Branimir's failed attempts at an in-joke to Schatt's desperate scramble to prove that he's a "real goon" by posting his account registered in 2008 but listing a bunch of SA references to somehow compensate this thread has delivered beyond all of my wildest dreams.

Edit: Do you see? This post has an in-joke as well as a SA reference! It's absolutely golden!
[/quote]
Yes, how very desperate of me to lower myself to answering Sardonic's question and foresee the "2008" objection.

They're "generic" because they're still true a year later.

[Sardonic]

[quote name='Schattenmann' timestamp='1282747695' post='2430832']
[url="http://forums.somethingawful.com/member.php?action=getinfo&userid=129942"]Schattenmann[/url] I registered 7 years late. I've been with SA since Sam Jain's escspades caused monthly server switches, got my only HS detention for laughing too loudly at Cliff Yablonski, wept when Lowtax's fiance turned out to be a psycho, forced myself to listen to the entire ARC CD, read [u]My Tank is Fight[/u], etc.
[/quote]
OOC:
There's a front page? More importantly, nice 18 posts bro. For reference [url=http://forums.somethingawful.com/member.php?action=getinfo&userid=81064]this[/url] is mine. You have no standing to lecture me on what we are as goons, and what our ultimate aims are. We are different, I've been in enough goonsquads in various games to know the difference, and that's the bottom line.

[Biazt]

[quote name='Schattenmann' timestamp='1282753841' post='2430932']
Yes, how very desperate of me to lower myself to answering Sardonic's question and foresee the "2008" objection.

They're "generic" because they're still true a year later.
[/quote]
So you agree that you've just posting the same generic argument over and over for an entire year? Most excellent.

Edited August 25, 2010 by Biazt

[WarriorConcept]

[quote name='Sardonic' timestamp='1282754319' post='2430943']
OOC:
There's a front page? More importantly, nice 18 posts bro. For reference [url=http://forums.somethingawful.com/member.php?action=getinfo&userid=81064]this[/url] is mine. You have no standing to lecture me on what we are as goons, and what our ultimate aims are. We are different, I've been in enough goonsquads in various games to know the difference, and that's the bottom line.
[/quote]

Because Sardonic said so?

[nippy]

[quote name='Schattenmann' timestamp='1282753841' post='2430932']
They're "generic" because they're still generic a year later.
[/quote]

fixed that for you, Schatt. Beyond comfortably placing yourself on the same level with other redundant logic-challenged anti-GOONS mouthpieces, how do you expect to benefit from your little attention grab here? Your existence has zero bearing on ours. You're a horrendously over-rated e-lawyer and you run an alliance that worships a moderator that retired long ago. Why the hell should we give a damn what you think?

[Schattenmann]

[quote name='Sardonic' timestamp='1282754319' post='2430943']
OOC:
There's a front page? More importantly, nice 18 posts bro. For reference [url=http://forums.somethingawful.com/member.php?action=getinfo&userid=81064]this[/url] is mine. You have no standing to lecture me on what we are as goons, and what our ultimate aims are. We are different, I've been in enough goonsquads in various games to know the difference, and that's the bottom line.
[/quote]
Nice epeen, broham. Here's a bigger one for reference: [url="http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showuser=3933"]4,321[/url] Nice 589, there little buddy, one day you'll be a man, too. Don't presume to talk to me about this place, and don't be surprised when I don't bite your "weve changed, stop being mean to us" bait. There are goons who stuck it out while Negligence/Sadism gave it up and abandoned the fight for a vacation on the moon until it looked like things were easy enough to sneak back onto Bob and usurp a legacy while simultaneously shrinking from it.
Are you more intelligent and invested than Neutral Shoving? Yes, as I've already said. Are you all that different? Newp.

[Schattenmann]

Hahaha, I really can't even believe you pulled post count. Is naguchanzilla a fake goon too? Her account is about 10 minutes younger than mine.

[nippy]

[quote name='Schattenmann' timestamp='1282755008' post='2430955']
Nice epeen, broham. Here's a bigger one for reference: [url="http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showuser=3933"]4,321[/url] Nice 589, there little buddy, one day you'll be a man, too. Don't presume to talk to me about this place, and don't be surprised when I don't bite your "weve changed, stop being mean to us" bait. There are goons who stuck it out while Negligence/Sadism gave it up and abandoned the fight for a vacation on the moon until it looked like things were easy enough to sneak back onto Bob and usurp a legacy while simultaneously shrinking from it.
Are you more intelligent and invested than Neutral Shoving? Yes, as I've already said. Are you all that different? Newp.
[/quote]

Did you really just link to your CN forum profile in some strange attempt to make Sardonic feel bad about having fewer posts on here? He questioned your existence as a goon, not your existence as a forum loudmouth.

[WarriorConcept]

[quote name='Schattenmann' timestamp='1282755008' post='2430955']
Nice epeen, broham. Here's a bigger one for reference: [url="http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showuser=3933"]4,321[/url] Nice 589, there little buddy, one day you'll be a man, too. Don't presume to talk to me about this place, and don't be surprised when I don't bite your "weve changed, stop being mean to us" bait. There are goons who stuck it out while Negligence/Sadism gave it up and abandoned the fight for a vacation on the moon until it looked like things were easy enough to sneak back onto Bob and usurp a legacy while simultaneously shrinking from it.
Are you more intelligent and invested than Neutral Shoving? Yes, as I've already said. Are you all that different? Newp.
[/quote]


And I'm pretty sure I've been around [url="http://z15.invisionfree.com/Cyber_Nations/index.php?showuser=11732"]Even Longer[/url]

So yes, from someone who has had ample contact with both the old and new ones I can safely say there is plenty enough difference to validate a VE treaty with them. Honestly Schatt stop talking as if you've been here forever, you're not a real veteran yet. Heck I barely am, but I damn sure know GOONS from old and new better than you.

[Sardonic]

[quote name='nippy' timestamp='1282755259' post='2430957']
Did you really just link to your CN forum profile in some strange attempt to make Sardonic feel bad about having fewer posts on here? He questioned your existence as a goon, not your existence as a forum loudmouth.
[/quote]
Indeed, a classic Schatt case of moving the goalposts and trying to confuse an argument. We know better though. Either that or he really did miss the point entirely. Either way it is humorous.

[supercoolyellow]

Ok I'm just going to interject here. I'm right because my my post count is bigger than yours, is not a valid argument, not by a long shot. The same goes for how long you've been on planet Bob.

Also, I'm right because my left big toe is bigger than your left big toe.

[Smooth]

This thread just keeps getting better and better. Keep it up!

[WarriorConcept]

[quote name='supercoolyellow' timestamp='1282756316' post='2430970']
Ok I'm just going to interject here. I'm right because my my post count is bigger than yours, is not a valid argument, not by a long shot. The same goes for how long you've been on planet Bob.

Also, I'm right because my left big toe is bigger than your left big toe.
[/quote]

Considering Schatt is trying to argue how similar old and new GOONS are, how long you've been on Plant Bob does affect the credibility of your statement. Unfortunately for him those who've truly been around a long time and worked with GOONS in the past and future know that there are big enough differences between both to justify this treaty for VE. However in his limited knowledge he tries to paint the opposite picture, which is completely his right, but without actually having been around long enough his credibility on the matter is very limited.

[Sardonic]

[quote name='supercoolyellow' timestamp='1282756316' post='2430970']
Ok I'm just going to interject here. I'm right because my my post count is bigger than yours, is not a valid argument, not by a long shot. The same goes for how long you've been on planet Bob.

Also, I'm right because my left big toe is bigger than your left big toe.
[/quote]
OOC:
The entire core of his argument (that we are not different from the old GOONS) relies on him being in tune with the community and what it means to be a 'goon', he isn't. I don't buy that he registered "8 years late" either. He is probably just another one who found SA via CN, not that there is anything wrong with that, but he has no idea what he is talking about with regards to our true nature, and his postcount, or lack there of, reflects that.

[Schattenmann]

[quote name='nippy' timestamp='1282755259' post='2430957']
Did you really just link to your CN forum profile in some strange attempt to make Sardonic feel bad about having fewer posts on here? He questioned your existence as a goon, not your existence as a forum loudmouth.
[/quote]
Right. According to Sardonic et al. my unfortunate entry into Neutral Shoving a month or two before the UjW makes me less of a goon than they who were in Neutral Shoving--endorsing its policies and practices with their membership in a democratic alliance--longer than me. By their reasoning, those people are goonier than themselves, but in a magnificent logical derailing those more senior people don't

[quote name='WarriorConcept' timestamp='1282755273' post='2430958']
And I'm pretty sure I've been around [url="http://z15.invisionfree.com/Cyber_Nations/index.php?showuser=11732"]Even Longer[/url]

So yes, from someone who has had ample contact with both the old and new ones I can safely say there is plenty enough difference to validate a VE treaty with them. Honestly Schatt stop talking as if you've been here forever, you're not a real veteran yet. Heck I barely am, but I damn sure know GOONS from old and new better than you.
[/quote]
Continuing, on the "no, I'm older" moronity. Congrats. Several of us have said that Negligence/Sadism is not very much different in policy than Neutral Shoving. So, if I find someone older than you to say the same, are you now incorrect? I'm old enough to have blasted CIS when they sanctioned you on black flying Neutral Shoving after the Emperor tossed you out of Francograd--is that old and goony enough? [OOC]I'm FB friends with Diz, now am I a goon? hurfdurf[/OOC]

[i][u]I[/u] [/i]am not asking VE to justify its treaty; I've stated in simple terms exactly why I'm not at all stunned by the treaty itself and voiced my opinion that I'm more surprised that GOONS wanted a treaty with VE. The huge controversy is my statement that they're not much different; not that it's bad, not that it's good; I even like a lot of goons. But you see them go ape!@#$ at any mention of their identity, and I can't help that. Maybe if they're so sensitive about who's a real goon and who's not a real goon and which GOONS is most representative of goons, then they should change their name or stop reading this forum. I can't post in a GOONS thread without some goon avoiding a real response and going straight to when I registered an account, which is immaterial to the argument at hand.
WarriorConcept, you don't have the chip on your shoulder. Why don't you say what's so different if there are so many glaring differences that me and Hal and D34th and Fallen Fool and so many other people--who may or may not be older or younger than you and therefore more or less right than you--just can't see? I've already acknowledged they're better at FA than Neutral Shoving, go one from there, I'm all ears:

Edited August 25, 2010 by Schattenmann