Decree of the Sith

[uaciaut]

[quote name='Rayvon' timestamp='1281472511' post='2410117']
It didn't. Failed diplomacy did.

Whether or not we choose to accept vagabonds, thieves, your mom, rogues, or whomever - is our choice. Not yours. Not Hoos. Not Admins.

The reason we're at war is because of a bad decision over sending aid without getting proper information (which they were not willing to share anyways).
[/quote]


Ah, yes. So being stupid about who you take in and being a jackass about the attitude you display especially when there's a whole predicament around said person is [b]YOUR (Not mine. Not Hoos. Not Admins.)[/b] (you should trademark this it's hilarious) choice, but people geting fed up and taking action is failed diplomacy.

[der_ko]

[quote name='All the wright moves' timestamp='1281505643' post='2410883']
3.I know that the people aren't just US citizens but i wud bet a majority are, and the US justice system is widely considered the best in the world so i thought would be appropriate to use in assessing guilt.
[/quote]
OOC: The US justice system is terrible and far from being [i]widely considered the best in the world[/i].

[Learz]

[quote name='Midkn1ght' timestamp='1281496084' post='2410604']
No matter what though, that AA doesn't say New Sith Order. It Says NONE and MHA. What happened to cause the wars was none of NSO's business until they accepted the guy causing the problem with RoK. You take on the weight of your members when you admit them, and this dude is an anchor worth of weight.
[/quote]
Willy answered that nicely.

[quote name='ShotgunWilly' timestamp='1281497376' post='2410635']
Anyway, the way I see it, NSO shouldn't have aided Sedrick. That much is obvious. But 2 other things also seem obvious: 1) this war is a complete and total overreaction. Honestly, there is some precedent for this, not a lot, but some and it's not resulted in a war before. 2) that at this point in time, NSO's enemies are not going to be negotiating in good faith anytime soon. Really, this is ridiculous...
[/quote]

[quote name='Merrie Melodies' timestamp='1281499714' post='2410708']
TENE could have declared on him for any reason they wanted, their reasons were none of NSO business. They had zero burden to provide you proof of anything, he wasn't your member at the time. Can't you grasp that?
[/quote]
But this, though... "TENE could have declared on him for any reason they wanted".
Really?
TENE was slamming this guy around simply because they could, and when someone tries to stop it, you tell them to mind their own business. Why don't you tell TENE to mind [i]their own business[/i]? That would have solved this whole thing nicely.
Honestly, even the GGA had better control over their protectorates. This is starting to move beyond the "sad" point and into "embarrassing".
[font="Franklin Gothic Medium"][b]RoK: the new GGA.[/b][/font]

[ChairmanHal]

[quote name='Ashoka the Great' timestamp='1281493645' post='2410564']
Repeating this [i]ad nauseum[/i] will not make it true.
[/quote]

It's a question of whether or not you consider spying ([i]OOC: in game as opposed to sneaking screen shot of forums[/i]) an act of war. So far as I know, we have TENE's word that Sedrick spied on them first, but there is no proof of this.

If you don't consider it an act of war, then by all means the evidence is clear that Sedrick declared war on two TENE nations first, should be considered a 'rogue' and we're done. If you do consider it an act of war, then Sedrick was already under attack by TENE long before he applied to NSO.

FYI: As I've stated previously elsewhere, Sedrick has proven why you should at least try to leave an alliance on good terms (or at least neutral) and if you are harassed afterward, let others act as your representatives in the matter on your behalf and move on. Even if you're hassled by a microalliance, it's still you versus all of them.

Edited August 11, 2010 by ChairmanHal

[Tautology]

[quote name='Learz' timestamp='1281532932' post='2411069']
...
Honestly, even the GGA had better control over their protectorates. This is starting to move beyond the "sad" point and into "embarrassing".
[font="Franklin Gothic Medium"][b]RoK: the new GGA.[/b][/font][/quote]
That is such a hurtful thing to say about us.

I like the "sad" to "embarrassing" in quotes bit. If only we had Dr. Evil (aka Hoo) on video saying it.

[Shakira]

[color="#FFFF00"][font="Comic Sans MS"]Give them hell, NSO.[/font][/color]

[m3g4tr0n]

[quote name='Timtacious' timestamp='1281518796' post='2410996']
I for one am shocked that they were able to muster the courage to attack the NSO with only four alliances.

Also, YEAH WAR
[/quote]

I agree. Go double digits, or go home.

[Mergerberger II]

[quote name='Learz' timestamp='1281532932' post='2411069']
But this, though... "TENE could have declared on him for any reason they wanted".
Really?
TENE was slamming this guy around simply because they could, and when someone tries to stop it, you tell them to mind their own business. Why don't you tell TENE to mind [i]their own business[/i]? That would have solved this whole thing nicely.
Honestly, even the GGA had better control over their protectorates. This is starting to move beyond the "sad" point and into "embarrassing".
[font="Franklin Gothic Medium"][b]RoK: the new GGA.[/b][/font]
[/quote]

You're avoiding the point. He was a rogue on TENE. This was TENE and RoK's business, and NSO got involved, and while it was not by their own accord, they did poke their nose in too far, and they really became involved too much in RoK/TENE's business.

I don't really see how you can tell TENE off by telling them to mind their own business, since that's exactly what they were doing the whole time. A guy goes rogue on their alliance, I'd say that's their business.

[Merrie Melodies]

[quote name='Learz' timestamp='1281532932' post='2411069']
Willy answered that nicely.




But this, though... "TENE could have declared on him for any reason they wanted".
Really?
TENE was slamming this guy around simply because they could, and when someone tries to stop it, you tell them to mind their own business. Why don't you tell TENE to mind [i]their own business[/i]? That would have solved this whole thing nicely.
Honestly, even the GGA had better control over their protectorates. This is starting to move beyond the "sad" point and into "embarrassing".
[font="Franklin Gothic Medium"][b]RoK: the new GGA.[/b][/font]
[/quote]
I'll tell you what, you come in and start aiding one of my tech raids and see if I don't kick you in the teeth, unaligned are, well unaligned, free game, meat to be had. But to further show how you are acting like a jackass, this douche your burning for was a member of TENE which makes it very much there business.

[Learz]

[quote name='Mergerberger II' timestamp='1281539540' post='2411125']
You're avoiding the point. He was a rogue on TENE. This was TENE and RoK's business, and NSO got involved, and while it was not by their own accord, they did poke their nose in too far, and they really became involved too much in RoK/TENE's business.

I don't really see how you can tell TENE off by telling them to mind their own business, since that's exactly what they were doing the whole time. A guy goes rogue on their alliance, I'd say that's their business.
[/quote]
TENE hit him first (i.e., spied on him, also know as an act of war). [i]That's[/i] why I can tell them to mind their own business.

[quote name='Merrie Melodies' timestamp='1281539655' post='2411127']
I'll tell you what, you come in and start aiding one of my tech raids and see if I don't kick you in the teeth, unaligned are, well unaligned, free game, meat to be had. But to further show how you are acting like a jackass, this douche your burning for was a member of TENE which makes it very much there business.
[/quote]
You say tomato, I say tomahto... regardless, you missed the point, although I'll repeat it here for the umpteenth time: TENE started this. At least, from the facts and evidence presented to the public. If you happen to have screenshots ([i]like NSO has[/i]; you could learn something from them) that contradicts the story being told, post them. Otherwise, you're just wasting time.

[Merrie Melodies]

[quote name='Learz' timestamp='1281540393' post='2411131']
TENE hit him first (i.e., spied on him, also know as an act of war). [i]That's[/i] why I can tell them to mind their own business.


You say tomato, I say tomahto... regardless, you missed the point, although I'll repeat it here for the umpteenth time: TENE started this. At least, from the facts and evidence presented to the public. If you happen to have screenshots ([i]like NSO has[/i]; you could learn something from them) that contradicts the story being told, post them. Otherwise, you're just wasting time.
[/quote]
I happen to agree TENE started this, long before he was a member of NSO, which makes it none of NSO business. What ever went on between Sedric and TENE is their business, not mine, not yours and not NSO.

[Learz]

[quote name='Merrie Melodies' timestamp='1281540567' post='2411132']
I happen to agree TENE started this, long before he was a member of NSO, which makes it none of NSO business. What ever went on between Sedric and TENE is their business, not mine, not yours and not NSO.
[/quote]
[url="http://cybernations.wikia.com/wiki/Popcorn_War"]Exhibit A.[/url]
Exhibit B: This is Planet Bob. Nothing is private here

But it is interesting, yes? This whole thing comes down to whether NSO had a right in getting involved. "Our" side says yes, due to, uh, Moldavi II, anti-raiding policies, membership in NSO, common logic, whatever. "Your" side says no due to, umm, unaligned being scum that should be kicked off this planet, I dunno.

What is clear, however, is that NSO has a strong case for getting involved; [i]FAR [/i]stronger, I'm sure you'll agree, than RoK&Co's case for declaring war.

[CptGodzilla]

[quote name='Learz' timestamp='1281540862' post='2411138']
[url="http://cybernations.wikia.com/wiki/Popcorn_War"]Exhibit A.[/url]
Exhibit B: This is Planet Bob. Nothing is private here

But it is interesting, yes? This whole thing comes down to whether NSO had a right in getting involved. "Our" side says yes, due to, uh, Moldavi II, anti-raiding policies, membership in NSO, common logic, whatever. "Your" side says no due to, umm, unaligned being scum that should be kicked off this planet, I dunno.

What is clear, however, is that NSO has a strong case for getting involved; [i]FAR [/i]stronger, I'm sure you'll agree, than RoK&Co's case for declaring war.
[/quote]

The only part of this whole story that matters is the part where Hoo told heft not to aid him and heft decides to aid him.

Edited August 11, 2010 by CptGodzilla

[Haflinger]

[quote name='CptGodzilla' timestamp='1281541711' post='2411143']
The only part of this whole story that matters is the part where Hoo told heft not to aid him and heft decides to aid him.
[/quote]
Yes, we are aware that the CB is disobeying Hoo.

[mike717]

[quote name='Merrie Melodies' timestamp='1281539655' post='2411127']
I'll tell you what, you come in and start aiding one of my tech raids and see if I don't kick you in the teeth, unaligned are, well unaligned, free game, meat to be had. But to further show how you are acting like a jackass, this douche your burning for was a member of TENE which makes it very much there business.
[/quote]


Wait, what? So if i start giving 3 million dollars to every \m/ techraid, you're gonna consider that an act of war? What the hell makes unaligneds free game for you to steal from, but not free game for me to help?

[CptGodzilla]

[quote name='Haflinger' timestamp='1281541892' post='2411145']
Yes, we are aware that the CB is disobeying Hoo.
[/quote]

oh, ok. Just making sure that is clear...

[Merrie Melodies]

[quote name='mike717' timestamp='1281542218' post='2411152']
Wait, what? So if i start giving 3 million dollars to every \m/ techraid, you're gonna consider that an act of war? What the hell makes unaligneds free game for you to steal from, but not free game for me to help?
[/quote]
Yes I will consider it an act of war. And to answer your question, they are unaligned, they have taken no action to be afforded protection. I am curious though, is NSO an alliance who allowed raiding now in the business of protecting the unaligned?

[CptGodzilla]

[quote name='Merrie Melodies' timestamp='1281542821' post='2411159']
Yes I will consider it an act of war. And to answer your question, they are unaligned, they have taken no action to be afforded protection. I am curious though, is NSO an alliance who allowed raiding now in the business of protecting the unaligned?
[/quote]

Oh no! We found out NSO's deep dark secret. Lint wad is actually the reincarnation of walford

Edited August 11, 2010 by CptGodzilla

[Rayvon]

[quote name='Merrie Melodies' timestamp='1281540567' post='2411132']
I happen to agree TENE started this, long before he was a member of NSO, which makes it none of NSO business. What ever went on between Sedric and TENE is their business, not mine, not yours and not NSO.
[/quote]

Sedric came to us to join. We have a right to take him if we choose. We have a right to make it our business.

It works for VE. Look at the Cost of Mercy Act. Section 1, point 2 "The nation requires Viridian assistance in resolving a prior entanglement that would prevent membership without the intervention of VE diplomats." .. In this case, we were the intervention. Heft went to say 'Hey, we don't like this, can we talk about it?' .. And well, you know the rest from there - skewed in your head as it may be.

[Haflinger]

[quote name='CptGodzilla' timestamp='1281542916' post='2411161']
Oh no! We found out NSO's deep dark secret. Lint wad is actually the reincarnation of walford
[/quote]
Walford is [url="http://www.cybernations.net/nation_drill_display.asp?Nation_ID=384574"]here.[/url]

[Merrie Melodies]

[quote name='Rayvon' timestamp='1281542960' post='2411162']
Sedric came to us to join.[b] We have a right to take him if we choose. We have a right to make it our business.
[/b]
It works for VE. Look at the Cost of Mercy Act. Section 1, point 2 "The nation requires Viridian assistance in resolving a prior entanglement that would prevent membership without the intervention of VE diplomats." .. In this case, we were the intervention. Heft went to say 'Hey, we don't like this, can we talk about it?' .. And well, you know the rest from there - skewed in your head as it may be.
[/quote]
Yes you do have that right, and now your dealing with the consequences of exercising that right. Feel good?

[Louisa]

[quote name='Rayvon' timestamp='1281542960' post='2411162']
Sedric came to us to join. We have a right to take him if we choose. We have a right to make it our business.

It works for VE. Look at the Cost of Mercy Act. Section 1, point 2 "The nation requires Viridian assistance in resolving a prior entanglement that would prevent membership without the intervention of VE diplomats." .. In this case, we were the intervention. Heft went to say 'Hey, we don't like this, can we talk about it?' .. And well, you know the rest from there - skewed in your head as it may be.
[/quote]

I am pretty sure that the Viridian rules are to help applicants get peace from other Alliances when they want to join VE. In which case VE diplomats would help sort out the war and put things right with the attackers, etc.

NSO on the other hand seems to have just accepted Sedrick, and then not done any thing to fix his problems (I understand it that Ragnarok came to you first to fix things, rather than you contacting them about things?)

[Rayvon]

[quote name='Merrie Melodies' timestamp='1281543221' post='2411166']
Yes you do have that right, and now your dealing with the consequences of exercising that right. Feel good?
[/quote]

Actually - it does feel pretty good.

[s]Moo[/s]Hoo can push all he wants. Our sovereignty and our rights to be who we are won't be infringed. We don't feel pain from our pixels. We're quite enjoying ourselves.

[IMG]http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq31/cduggan81d/SithBiznus/GiveDiploAChance.jpg[/IMG]

[AnCapistan]

[quote name='Learz' timestamp='1281540862' post='2411138']
[url="http://cybernations.wikia.com/wiki/Popcorn_War"]Exhibit A.[/url]
Exhibit B: This is Planet Bob. Nothing is private here

But it is interesting, yes? This whole thing comes down to whether NSO had a right in getting involved. "Our" side says yes, due to, uh, Moldavi II, anti-raiding policies, membership in NSO, common logic, whatever. "Your" side says no due to, umm, unaligned being scum that should be kicked off this planet, I dunno.

What is clear, however, is that NSO has a strong case for getting involved; [i]FAR [/i]stronger, I'm sure you'll agree, than RoK&Co's case for declaring war.
[/quote]

You seem to be missing the point that NSO aided and abetted an enemy of Ragnarok, specifically after being told not to.

NSO has a [i]right[/i] to do anything it wants. But that doesn't make it immune from the punishment.

And how is this in anyway similar to the Popcorn War?

[quote name='Rayvon' timestamp='1281542960' post='2411162']
It works for VE. Look at the Cost of Mercy Act. Section 1, point 2 "The nation requires Viridian assistance in resolving a prior entanglement that would prevent membership without the intervention of VE diplomats." .. In this case, we were the intervention. Heft went to say 'Hey, we don't like this, can we talk about it?' .. And well, you know the rest from there - skewed in your head as it may be.
[/quote]

VE nations are required to have zero active wars when joining the alliance. So, uh, no. :/

Edited August 11, 2010 by Mr Damsky

[Merrie Melodies]

[quote name='Rayvon' timestamp='1281543404' post='2411168']
Actually - it does feel pretty good.

[s]Moo[/s]Hoo can push all he wants. Our sovereignty and our rights to be who we are won't be infringed. We don't feel pain from our pixels. We're quite enjoying ourselves.

[IMG]http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq31/cduggan81d/SithBiznus/GiveDiploAChance.jpg[/IMG]
[/quote]
If it feels so good why is that NSO members are all over the place sniveling?