The Dolomus Files

[Ardus]

[quote name='Xiphosis' date='25 June 2010 - 08:09 PM' timestamp='1277510926' post='2350481']
Indeed. Not knocking it, I like most of our strategy leading up to that war.
[/quote]
Neither am I. I just wanted to use that phrase.

[Arcturus Jefferson]

[quote name='shahenshah' date='25 June 2010 - 07:41 PM' timestamp='1277509299' post='2350464']
Good to see you throw shots at majority of the Karma.
[/quote]
He's chastising them for not beating your alliance to death fast enough.

[Kochers]

While not exactly on topic, I do have a question about VE you can probably answer.

What exactly happened with VE applying to GUARD and all? How did that work out and why?

[Ardus]

[quote name='Kochers' date='26 June 2010 - 06:30 PM' timestamp='1277591385' post='2351292']
While not exactly on topic, I do have a question about VE you can probably answer.

What exactly happened with VE applying to GUARD and all? How did that work out and why?
[/quote]
When I took over as Lord the first time the Initiative was bearing down on us and we knew war would come along any day. So we began to weigh options.

1) Attempt to reconcile and sign a treaty with the NPO. The annihilation of our treaties had left us open, so re-connecting to somebody in WUT to strengthen opposition to war from within the bloc would be necessary to prevent the war. We weren't ever exactly friends with GOONS, GGA was gunning for us, NpO wasn't our close friend and savior at the time, TOP was aloof, and FAN liked war, so asking it to stop one appeared counterintuitive. NPO was the best, slim chance.

2) Join GUARD. Our most desired hope was that joining GUARD would force WUT to hold up a bit before charging into war--not stop it altogether, but deter the sudden charge for it temporarily. This would give us time to launch into some aggressive diplomacy and gauge GUARD's military readiness (laughably non-existent). VE's growth was on a tear at the time, with every day bringing in another large nation from some corner of the Cyberverse, so every moment managed was golden.

3) Build a Coalition. Equally, if not more possible, was that the war would be pursued anyway and GUARD would move toward our defense, providing a much needed statistical basis from which to try and compile anything resembling a coalition. The rest of Green was in an uproar over GGA's intentions so even GPA flirted heavily with intervention as Egore and I pumped Kristin Marie full of (justified) paranoia; if WUT was willing to rock one of the groups who'd fought to put it in power there was no reason to think it wouldn't take on a group that had ridden the fence.

With time a scarce commodity we didn't exactly get to argue out the different options in overwhelming detail, nor did they seem particularly incompatible, so we pursued all three at the same time. I ordered Cornelius, who was MoFA at the time, to apply us to GUARD. Shortly thereafter I'd approach Moo about the end of our isolationism and float the idea of re-connecting with NPO. Finally, Egore took charge of Marie--by the first time I talked to her she was already a nervous wreck, poor thing.

The whole plan when to hell in short order. GUARD dithered on our application as we begged for a straight, clean, up-or-down vote. Instead they just let the question float in the air, much to our frazzled chagrin. At the same time, the GUARD application had created the opposite effect than was intended in WUT and accelerated the bloc into mobilization. VE was moving to a rival bloc and had to be engaged as soon as possible, presumably without regard to whether or not it was accepted. When I spoke with Moo he hinted that the GUARD application had caused a stir in WUT (which we already knew from sympathetic sources). When I pressed him on the subjection of reconciliation, he said Bilrow was the person who needed talking to as he was the one beating the drums. That redirect was the deathblow to the reconciliation option, as Bilrow stonewalled while taking the offensive, refusing to admit any of GGA's actions could be of concern to anybody (despite the fact the alliance was mobilizing) while famously accusing VE of destabilizing the green sphere. Finally, for all the work we'd done putting the fear of God into KM, GPA couldn't get itself to act--the public vote took forever and ultimately fell in favor of neutrality, though the result didn't occur until after the war started (if I recall correctly).

So, to answer your original question in one sentence: it went bad and GUARD was incapable of making tough decisions.

[Lusitan]

GUARD's charter, Article I

[quote]4) No signatory is permitted to sign any mutual-defense or offense pact outside of GUARD. This applies to such pacts established prior to the signing of GUARD, and they must be summarily cancelled. This does not apply to protectorates (of which one is allowed), and pacts of nonaggression, friendship, or optional-assistance. [/quote]

I am not sure how re-signing a treaty with NPO while joining GUARD would have been a compatible move

[Sandwich Controversy]

The GUARD application made a lot of people in WUT happy as it meant more for us to kill.

[Kevanovia]

How did you manage to work your way to Lord so quickly? (I remember during my tenure as Viridian's MoFA, Egore told me he was prepping you to become his successor and this was when you were still fairly new to Viridia)

Did you enjoy your break from CN?

Why did you come back?

What are your plans for the future?

Nice seeing you again by the way.

[Lord Fingolfin]

[quote name='Kevanovia' date='27 June 2010 - 06:37 PM' timestamp='1277678228' post='2352214']
How did you manage to work your way to Lord so quickly? (I remember during my tenure as Viridian's MoFA, Egore told me he was prepping you to become his successor and this was when you were still fairly new to Viridia)

Did you enjoy your break from CN?

Why did you come back?

What are your plans for the future?

Nice seeing you again by the way.
[/quote]

Kevins back!

*waves*

But anyways, what is your current opinion of the NPO/others who played a party to the Viridicide so long ago? Do you feel that they have paid their penance and now have a clean slate? Or is vengeance still on your heart and mind

[Kevanovia]

[quote name='Lord Fingolfin' date='28 June 2010 - 01:29 AM' timestamp='1277684981' post='2352307']
Kevins back!

*waves*
[/quote]
Heya Fingolfin! Nice seeing you again.

[Schattenmann]

Wow, I go away for a week and Ardus confirms every nasty bit of VE's character for the world? Maybe I'll go away for another week and VE will get forcibly disbanded. Again.

[quote name='Il Impero Romano' date='25 June 2010 - 02:01 AM' timestamp='1277445661' post='2349791']
Nah man, we all know the real national VE pastime cannot be spoken of in this venue.
[/quote]
Two words: YELLOW DRANK!


Why did VE drop the Aurum Entente colony?

Edited June 28, 2010 by Schattenmann

[Bergerland]

[quote name='Schattenmann' date='27 June 2010 - 10:29 PM' timestamp='1277692167' post='2352376']
Wow, I go away for a week and Ardus confirms every nasty bit of VE's character for the world? Maybe I'll go away for another week and VE will get forcibly disbanded. Again.


Two words: YELLOW DRANK!


Why did VE drop the Aurum Entente colony?
[/quote]

I'll ignore the fact that you are projecting Ardus' character as VE's and just answer your second question.

The colony idea was dropped because membership was split on the issue. Some wanted it and some didn't and there was never enough support after Ardus left for it to continue.

[Ardus]

[quote name='Kevanovia' date='27 June 2010 - 06:37 PM' timestamp='1277678228' post='2352214']
How did you manage to work your way to Lord so quickly? (I remember during my tenure as Viridian's MoFA, Egore told me he was prepping you to become his successor and this was when you were still fairly new to Viridia)[/quote]

In GWII everybody was running around like headless chickens. I kept asking when we'd receive target orders only to find nobody was doing anything about it, so I made VE's first target assignments, handed them to Egore, and posted them online. Smooth joined in the effort and the two of us became a de-facto second military command through V.I.D.E.O. Egore told me about the colony idea and asked me to be Mr. Right Hand shortly thereafter. My response was great. "Are you suggesting... that I...?"

[quote]Did you enjoy your break from CN?[/quote]

Not really. If you'll recall I was shot by a Vox assassin. To be honest I don't remember anything except the dull thuds, a spread of warm numbness, and blacking out. When I woke up months later everybody was hush hush about my condition, other than to tell me that I was alive. Viridians have asked me repeatedly how I've returned and I like to joke that I'm their Lord and savior, risen from the dead after three months. To be honest I wouldn't be surprised if I were a robot.

[quote]Why did you come back?[/quote]

See above. Nobody tells me anything. I assume there's some purpose to my return. When I assumed rule over Palmettia again I realigned us to the Mushroom Kingdom. I didn't want to rule, I thought they were a cool bunch a people, and I wanted to help repay the reps for which I was partially responsible.

[quote]What are your plans for the future?[/quote]

Hookers and blow.

[quote]Nice seeing you again by the way. [/quote]

Same.

[Ardus]

[quote name='Lord Fingolfin' date='27 June 2010 - 08:29 PM' timestamp='1277684981' post='2352307']
But anyways, what is your current opinion of the NPO/others who played a party to the Viridicide so long ago? Do you feel that they have paid their penance and now have a clean slate? Or is vengeance still on your heart and mind
[/quote]
GOONS died. I didn't hold the GCW against their lunar colonists and I feel no reason to suddenly hold it against them now that they've returned from that blasted landscape.

NPO is still led by, more or less, the same people that led it into the war, including Bilrow. I'm not sure what Emperor Blackbird was up to at the time, but I feel no need to reconcile with them.

My continuing disdain for GGA is well noted.

[mrcalkin]

For some of us who took part in the beatdown of VE and the rest of green, could you illuminate us a bit more on OE (unless you weren't really involved in it)? I've heard the WUT-side of the story a million times but I can't say I really remember how VE justified it or if it was just something pulled out of our $@! to give us a CB.

[der_ko]

[quote name='Geoffron X' date='20 June 2010 - 11:30 PM' timestamp='1277069415' post='2344130']
Oooh, excellent deflection! That totally means that allying with us and planning to kill us was just fine and dandy! Because we let you know that Polar was spying on you!
[/quote]
Remember this treaty? http://z15.invisionfree.com/Cyber_Nations/index.php?showtopic=78968&hl=

Edited June 28, 2010 by der_ko

[Ardus]

[quote name='mrcalkin' date='28 June 2010 - 03:56 PM' timestamp='1277754973' post='2353054']
For some of us who took part in the beatdown of VE and the rest of green, could you illuminate us a bit more on OE (unless you weren't really involved in it)? I've heard the WUT-side of the story a million times but I can't say I really remember how VE justified it or if it was just something pulled out of our $@! to give us a CB.
[/quote]
I learned of Egore's plans for a colony when I was asked to be his successor in VE after he left to establish the colony. At the time we hadn't decided what color to put it on or exactly when to do it, other than we didn't want to establish a colony on one of the low-population spheres (it wouldn't be worth the effort). We eventually decided on the black sphere because it was a strong, populous sphere with a divided senate: GOONS on one side and LoSS/CDS on the other. Egore floated the idea to GOONS and NPO, found some minor reservations, but was nonetheless given the okay. And by "okay" I mean "Ok"; I'd later find out those two letters were the only real confirmation we got.

Somewhere between my rise in power and GWIII, a member of /b/ managed to find out about the colonial plans, much to our chagrin. The plans had been declared to the general membership but not the public or more than a couple of foreign leaders. East Philadelphia propagated the text of the post in the /b/ public IRC channel. How exactly the post got into his hands wasn't 100% clear, but our best estimate was that a friend (who happened to be in /b/) of VE member Sloppy Joe managed to access his forum and IRC accounts and pass the information on to East Philadelphia. It became an exceptional worry when he started reproducing the contents of our private IRC channel in real-time. We shut the channel down and would have gone to war against /b/, but WUT demanded we do nothing. We were infuriated and demands to leave WUT surged. I mean, what was the point of a bloc if it wouldn't assist in our defense?

Anyway, LoSS hit VE in GWIII using the now well known colonization plans alongside /b/. We fought the war, focused on /b/ until Black Friday, then turned our full resources on LoSS, who'd been held off by our lower ranks combined with a number of other small but promising alliances, GOD's precursor CNC, Cross-X, and MCCF. I pressured New Reverie to surrender with haste while the war was still raging so that I could offer soft terms, but he refused. The war dragged on and, by the time New Reverie was willing to entertain the idea of surrender, the fighting had devolved to clean-up operations. GOONS intervened and demanded that we force LoSS off of black, which we didn't want to do since a divided black was part of the justification for OE. We were informed that GOONS would continue the fight against LoSS if we didn't include the "move to pink" term with support from the rest of WUT, castrating our ability to direct term negotiations in the war we'd fought. The final terms had LoSS leave black for pink and nothing else. Disgust with WUT hit a fever pitch and, very shortly thereafter, we demolished all our treaties to cut away from the bunch.

The colony plan continued, despite some sage advice from a friend of mine in VE who has long since stopped playing the game. "GOONS controls black. Why would they allow you to set up camp?" Egore nonetheless espoused confidence in our ability to colonize the sphere and the willingness of GOONS to accept it. I resigned as MoD and took off for a short to deal with other affairs. When I returned VE/GOONS relations had declined to a new low as we committed repeated offenses (offenses that GOONS had every right to be ticked about). I don't remember the details. OE was upon us and I repeatedly harassed Egore: is this going to work? I wanted OE to start my own legacy, but the total annihilation of GOONS relations and our lack of treaties seemed to make it an increasingly bad idea. He assured me we'd be fine. The day of foundation, but before we declared existence, I tried to get in touch with Error and banned member, but neither would speak to me. banned member would only talk about Pokemon, which would have been hilarious in any other circumstances. We went ahead and founded the Obsidian Entente, with me as Lord of OE and Egore as Lord of VE; I'd convinced Egore that if he founded OE it would gut VE of talent as people left to follow him. I didn't command the same following I'd later develop. There was some immediate fanfare and celebration, but it dissipated quickly as Daemon banned member threatened war against both Ententes if the OE didn't relocate off sphere. Egore admitted he hadn't takled to GOONS on the subject in a while and I chewed him out.

OE had to move. Our first choice was Orange, but TOP expressed reservations. Blue was overcrowded with alliances. We came down to either Aqua or White, both of which were still new, and opted for the former after speaking with every notable group on the sphere except for MHA (who we forgot). The declaration was dressed in Pro-Pacifica, pacifist rhetoric to try and build resistance to war designs within WUT--after all, we still had positive relations with the NPO despite our departure from the bloc. The Oceanic Entente started building relations with other Aqua alliances, especially MHA (who we'd snubbed in exploring the sphere) and tried to stay quiet. Every few days brought a new rumor of war that put us on alert. I delegated authority and went inactive for a few days to deal with some other affairs again.

When I returned both alliances were on high alert. Egore abdicated and the remaining government requested that I return to assume the Lordship (I think Sooner was the second choice). I acquiesced and put Trace in charge of OE (I'd managed to recruit him to the cause a couple days after he'd joined VE and a couple days before we left). When the nature of the war became clearer I told Trace to keep OE out of the war by any means necessary. He did, declaring after the war that OE offered moral support, but no military support. At the same time he closed OE admissions--MHA expressed strong concerns that VE would just merge into the OE and it'd be dwarfed on the sphere. I'd disband VE and the membership scattered everywhere, with only a couple allowed into OE in order to prevent it from becoming a target.

After a while Trace would become more or less inactive and was asked to step down by a group of ministers and lesser officials led by Logan and Orion Pax. He abdicated and left to GOONS, a choice that annoyed us to no end. Logan would push the alliance on for a few more weeks before asking that I return to its leadership. I refused, worried it'd put a target on the alliance. He informed me they'd disband if I didn't. I said that was their choice. They quietly dissolved with no public announcement.

[Haflinger]

[quote name='Ardus' date='28 June 2010 - 04:54 PM' timestamp='1277758460' post='2353112']
It became an exceptional worry when he started reproducing the contents of our private IRC channel in real-time. We shut the channel down and would have gone to war against /b/, but WUT demanded we do nothing. We were infuriated and demands to leave WUT surged. I mean, what was the point of a bloc if it wouldn't assist in our defense?
[/quote]
It's appalling how much history repeats itself.

Boys and girls, if you have an irritated member of your bloc, and they're being spied on/under attack by some other alliance, the correct thing to do is NOT to tell them "Oh don't worry, they don't really mean it; we can't go to war now."

Oh well. At least they didn't sign an MDP with /b/.

[Ardus]

[quote name='Haflinger' date='28 June 2010 - 06:38 PM' timestamp='1277764696' post='2353253']
It's appalling how much history repeats itself.

Boys and girls, if you have an irritated member of your bloc, and they're being spied on/under attack by some other alliance, the correct thing to do is NOT to tell them "Oh don't worry, they don't really mean it; we can't go to war now."

Oh well. At least they didn't sign an MDP with /b/.
[/quote]
The reasoning was that attacking a professed "neutral" would incur massive backlash during a period of cold war and possibly result in a global war from a poor PR position. Nobody wanted to hand what would become Aegis the neutrals on a silver platter. We didn't care, it was the most clear-cut CB somebody could have asked for, and we wanted blood. We actually threatened to go it alone and were willing to do so--VE was more top heavy, could land a first strike, and actually had war experience. I don't recall what prevented us from doing so.

[Sandwich Controversy]

Philosopher genuinely believed /b/ would be a good ally.

[Lord Fingolfin]

Interesting. Well Ardus I appreciate your candor. You might have played the political game in a way considered distasteful to many, however, you played it very well, a true Machievellan, impressive.

[TypoNinja]

[quote name='Haflinger' date='28 June 2010 - 06:38 PM' timestamp='1277764696' post='2353253']
It's appalling how much history repeats itself.

Boys and girls, if you have an irritated member of your bloc, and they're being spied on/under attack by some other alliance, the correct thing to do is NOT to tell them "Oh don't worry, they don't really mean it; we can't go to war now."

Oh well. At least they didn't sign an MDP with /b/.
[/quote]

This incidentally is why so many of us felt the GCW was a betrayal rather than just cold politics. NPO had proven to VE it had the resources to restrain the WUT when they forbade action against /b/ (with a better CB than used on us at that), but despite their public claims of regret they still attacked us not long after.

[Haflinger]

[quote name='Ardus' date='28 June 2010 - 06:58 PM' timestamp='1277765885' post='2353291']
The reasoning was that attacking a professed "neutral" would incur massive backlash during a period of cold war and possibly result in a global war from a poor PR position. Nobody wanted to hand what would become Aegis the neutrals on a silver platter. We didn't care, it was the most clear-cut CB somebody could have asked for, and we wanted blood. We actually threatened to go it alone and were willing to do so--VE was more top heavy, could land a first strike, and actually had war experience. I don't recall what prevented us from doing so.
[/quote]
Yep. History repeats itself. It may cheer you to know that pretty much the same logic has been applied later on by completely different people, and the result was the same: the destruction of the bloc that was supposedly protecting itself from needless wars.

Or it might depress you. It cheers me to know that other people have gone through the same nonsense.

[shahenshah]

[quote name='Bergerland' date='28 June 2010 - 09:46 AM' timestamp='1277700398' post='2352464']
I'll ignore the fact that you are projecting Ardus' character.
[/quote]

In all honesty, a leader's character does project on alliance to a variable extent. Tho in all honesty, Ardus is not the leader of VE atm and still projecting similar things would not be fair.

[Ardus]

[quote name='Haflinger' date='28 June 2010 - 08:10 PM' timestamp='1277770237' post='2353375']
Yep. History repeats itself. It may cheer you to know that pretty much the same logic has been applied later on by completely different people, and the result was the same: the destruction of the bloc that was supposedly protecting itself from needless wars.

Or it might depress you. It cheers me to know that other people have gone through the same nonsense.
[/quote]
I s'pose my reaction is the same. It's good to empathize.

[Bergerland]

[quote name='shahenshah' date='28 June 2010 - 08:33 PM' timestamp='1277771589' post='2353393']
In all honesty, a leader's character does project on alliance to a variable extent. Tho in all honesty, Ardus is not the leader of VE atm and still projecting similar things would not be fair.
[/quote]

I agree. My main point was that Ardus is not the current Lord of Viridia, and hasn't been for some time, and that his past actions shouldn't reflect so strongly on our membership. In all honesty he probably fits the profile of your typical Shroomer more than he does the typical Viridian, which is probably why he's there and not in VE.