GOONS Announcement

[AnCapistan]

[quote name='Choson' date='19 May 2010 - 08:04 PM' timestamp='1274324623' post='2304113']
What's the point if that person doesn't learn that their actions have consequences?
[/quote]

Except he did learn that. He asked for peace and you gave, what he believed to be, humiliating terms.

Plus I think I'd learn that my actions have consequences if I was ZI'd.

[Beefspari]

[quote name='Mr Damsky' date='19 May 2010 - 09:07 PM' timestamp='1274324820' post='2304120']
Except he did learn that. He asked for peace and you gave, what he believed to be, humiliating terms.

Plus I think I'd learn that my actions have consequences if I was ZI'd.
[/quote]
Sigh.

No. Wrong. He didn't learn anything. His friends had to bail him out because he was too stubborn to admit he did anything wrong. SOME of his terms could've been considered humiliating. We gave him other terms like giving us tech. He opted to continue the war and have us take all the tech through GAs rather than just give us the tech. He'd rather lose 100% of his tech and have his nation deleted than just give us the tech, all because he didn't want to admit he did anything wrong. Does that sound like someone who learned their lesson?

He didn't ask for REASONABLE peace. He asked for white peace, as if he had done nothing wrong. The person on the end of the stick doesn't dictate terms. You don't look up into the face of the people holding you down and say "Fine, how about I give you a dollar and we call it even?" Methrage was never in a position to negotiate terms and offer his own peace negotiations. What he wanted was the ability to not take responsibility for his actions and walk away unharmed and without any sacrifice or apologies on his part. That's not peace.

He obviously didn't learn that his actions have consequences either. He was ZIed, then given secret aid, bounced back, and immediately returned nukes. Does that sound like someone who learned their lesson? Or believes their actions have consequences? Every time he'd hit ZI, someone would send him money, and he'd send more nukes.

Is that the kind of person you'd just let off the hook after one ZI? A person who has every ability to bounce back and will (and does) send nukes right after you ZI him? When you're walking away saying "Okay you're ZIed, good game," he throws a nuke at you and declares on more of your allies? Are you just going to sit there and watch him destroy all your allies because "he learned his lesson" when you ZIed him once? Is THAT what you're saying?

[AnCapistan]

[quote name='Beefspari' date='19 May 2010 - 08:17 PM' timestamp='1274325418' post='2304132']
[1]What he wanted was the ability to not take responsibility for his actions and walk away unharmed and without any sacrifice or apologies on his part. That's not peace.

[2]Does that sound like someone who learned their lesson?
[/quote]

1. He wouldn't have walked away unharmed. I was one of his trade partners, when I checked his nation he was at around fifteen thousand NS; and this was before he had asked for peace.

2. No, it sounds like someone who was still at war and still wanted to do damage. When you're getting the crap beaten out of you you don't sit there, take it, and offer your enemy a cup of tea. You fight back, or at least, that's what real warriors do.

[Umar ibn Abd al-Aziz]

[quote name='Mr Damsky' date='20 May 2010 - 01:59 PM' timestamp='1274324347' post='2304104']
OOC: If someone wasn't around for some genocide does that mean they can't think it is wrong?
[/quote]
Haha, our dealing with a nuke rogue is comparable with genocide? That's hilarious, do you have any other pearls of wisdom to share with us all today?

Edited May 20, 2010 by Umar ibn Abd al-Aziz

[AnCapistan]

[quote name='Umar ibn Abd al-Aziz' date='19 May 2010 - 08:32 PM' timestamp='1274326317' post='2304144']
Haha, our dealing with a nuke rogue is comparable with genocide? That's hilarious, do you have any other pearls of wisdom to share with us all today?
[/quote]

I never said that. Essentially what I'm saying is that just because you're not there doesn't mean you can't express an opinion on the matter.

[Rebel Virginia]

[quote name='BloodFury' date='19 May 2010 - 09:24 AM' timestamp='1274275432' post='2303290']
I Personally Apologize in Advance for anyone that tries to read this and can't. I may have messed some stuff up because of lack of sleep.


Rebel Virginia, you know me, I don't hold anything personal against anyone, and my comment wasn't directed at anyone in particular. It was a general statement towards the people that see a thread started by the GOONS and go in and start problems with them. While some of the threads that the GOONS have created in the past to inform the world of their current dealings were a bit unnecessary, this one in particular was created to inform the world of their recent achievements that they have achieved as an alliance. They are also taking the time to inform us of their changes in government as well their new constitution that they are using. The fact that they mentioned Methrage in the thread to tell the world he was removed from their Enemy of GOONS list is also a matter that they have full rights to address. The Enemy of GOONS list as a public record, and I am sure if they wanted to they could inform the world every time someone went on it or was taken off of it.

The fact that this thread was started at 18:39, and has achieved 6 pages within that small time frame not during a waring period is pretty impressive. This was an announcement to tell the world of some changes which they did. Not every single thread that the GOONS start needs to become a huge argument between GOONS and the people that hate the GOONS. People should of done the normal hails if they supported it, questioned something if they didn't understand the meaning behind it then left after they got their answer or just ignored the thread in general.

To be honest, I don't see the GOONS going into every single thread that people post and try to start problems with them. In fact most of the time if a member of GOONS does start a problem, their government solves the problem very quickly. They are not evil people like many try to make them out to be. Maybe before the general masses start to judge so quickly and rashly that they feel they need to take action all the time against someone, they should go and actually talk to the people they don't like and get to know them.

As for power abuse, those who hold the power, decide what is right and wrong. Many before me have said this in the past, and many will say it after me. "If you don't like the current system of affairs, change it." Obviously if there is enough people that feel the same way you will be able to change how things are. But then you would be faced with the same dilemma that everyone that gets thrust to the top faces, take advantage of the power you have gained, or actually change how the world is. I can guarantee that what has happened with the power shifts in the world so far that no one else would of done anything differently if they were in the same position. Order needs to be kept in the world, and you cannot do that by wandering in the fields picking flowers. You can give the people some change, but to give everyone everything they want? The world would be thrown into anarchy.

For other alliances getting attacked, you cannot compare any other alliance getting people in their threads starting useless arguments with them like the GOONS get. The GOONS could smile at a party, and I am sure those that hated the GOONS would find a way to start an argument about how their smile was not the proper one to use at that exact party.

tl;dr Cut the GOONS some slack once and a while. I am sure they enjoy their bad boy reputation, but even they can be serious and deserve respect in arena's that they give others respect.
[/quote]
[color="#0000FF"]BloodFury, I am aware you do not hold anything personally. Nonetheless I felt it necessary to show you that all criticism launched at GOONS is indeed valid and quite deserved. They have threatened alliances, instituted PZI, and generally have been a negative factor. While I know any replacement power structure would be just as abusive as this one, I have always pointed out injustice in any form.

Also, I will not cut GOONS slack. I will not ignore actions I clearly detest.[/color]

[Beefspari]

[quote name='Rebel Virginia' date='19 May 2010 - 09:35 PM' timestamp='1274326539' post='2304154']
[color="#0000FF"]Also, I will not cut GOONS slack. I will not ignore actions I clearly detest.[/color]
[/quote]
We're glad you don't. Conversations wouldn't be half as fun if you did.

[Haquertal]

[quote name='Rebel Virginia' date='19 May 2010 - 11:35 PM' timestamp='1274326539' post='2304154']
[color="#0000FF"]Also, I will not cut GOONS slack. I will not ignore actions I clearly detest.[/color]
[/quote]

So says the [s]peace mode warrior[/s]. Can't we all just play nice, since this deal is done and gone?

EDIT: Just saw that you're back in war mode. Nice to see, friend

Edited May 20, 2010 by Haquertal

[Penkala]

[quote name='Haquertal' date='19 May 2010 - 11:50 PM' timestamp='1274327441' post='2304170']
So says the peace mode warrior.
[/quote]

You're going to need to do better than ad hominems, pal.

[Rebel Virginia]

[quote name='Haquertal' date='19 May 2010 - 11:50 PM' timestamp='1274327441' post='2304170']
Just saw that you're back in war mode.[/quote]
[color="#0000FF"]Should I take that as a threat?[/color]

[Ryuzaki]

[quote name='Penkala' date='20 May 2010 - 04:53 PM' timestamp='1274327598' post='2304174']
You're going to need to do better than ad hominems, pal.
[/quote]

Look under RVs avatar.

[Haquertal]

[quote name='Rebel Virginia' date='19 May 2010 - 11:57 PM' timestamp='1274327839' post='2304176']
[color="#0000FF"]Should I take that as a threat?[/color]
[/quote]

Considering you're almost double my NS? <sarcasm> Sure </sarcasm>

[Dr Beefstupid]

[quote name='Rebel Virginia' date='19 May 2010 - 10:35 PM' timestamp='1274326539' post='2304154']
[color="#0000FF"]Also, I will not cut GOONS slack. I will not ignore actions I clearly detest.[/color]
[/quote]

Nor can I. I'm afraid I detest your actions, Rebel Virginia. Namely, abusing your freedom of speech to slander GOONS at every conceivable opportunity to advance your own petty political grudge against them regardless of its relevance, and with little to no accuracy or legitimacy to your complaints. As such, I cannot allow your verbal warfare to go uncriticized.

The beauty of freedom of speech is that it goes both ways. I will defend to my death your right to criticize us because I have the right to refute your laughable claims and bring linguistic justice to our fair planet.

[Haquertal]

[quote name='Dr Beefstupid' date='20 May 2010 - 12:00 AM' timestamp='1274328037' post='2304182']
Nor can I. I'm afraid I detest your actions, Rebel Virginia. Namely, abusing your freedom of speech to slander GOONS at every conceivable opportunity to advance your own petty political grudge against them regardless of its relevance, and with little to no accuracy or legitimacy to your complaints. As such, I cannot allow your verbal warfare to go uncriticized.

The beauty of freedom of speech is that it goes both ways. I will defend to my death your right to criticize us because I have the right to refute your laughable claims and bring linguistic justice to our fair planet.
[/quote]

Listen to this man. [b]He is a real doctor, friend.[/b]

[LokiLockpicker]

[quote name='Dr Beefstupid' date='19 May 2010 - 11:00 PM' timestamp='1274328037' post='2304182']
Nor can I. I'm afraid I detest your actions, Rebel Virginia. Namely, abusing your freedom of speech to slander GOONS at every conceivable opportunity to advance your own petty political grudge against them regardless of its relevance, and with little to no accuracy or legitimacy to your complaints. As such, I cannot allow your verbal warfare to go uncriticized.
[/quote]

There are many things he's said that are true, not all, and he definitely talks beyond what needs/should be said. However, it is not slander (technically libel) if what he says is true

[Dr Beefstupid]

[quote name='LokiLockpicker' date='19 May 2010 - 11:23 PM' timestamp='1274329364' post='2304210']
There are many things he's said that are true, not all, and he definitely talks beyond what needs/should be said. However, it is not slander (technically libel) if what he says is true
[/quote]

There's about as much truth in ten of Rebel Virginia's average posts as there is in half an average sentence in a vampire romance novel.

(Which, by the way is Decrascopula's largest export next to Cattle, Wheat, and the subsequent cheeseburgers.)

Edited May 20, 2010 by Dr Beefstupid

[threefingeredguy]

90 million does seem like a lot... if you need beer money GOONS you know we've got you.

[nippy]

[quote name='Penkala' date='20 May 2010 - 05:53 AM' timestamp='1274327598' post='2304174']
You're going to need to do better than ad hominems, pal.
[/quote]

Take your own advice.

[BloodFury]

[quote name='Rebel Virginia' date='19 May 2010 - 11:35 PM' timestamp='1274326539' post='2304154']
[color="#0000FF"]BloodFury, I am aware you do not hold anything personally. Nonetheless I felt it necessary to show you that all criticism launched at GOONS is indeed valid and quite deserved. They have threatened alliances, instituted PZI, and generally have been a negative factor. While I know any replacement power structure would be just as abusive as this one, I have always pointed out injustice in any form.

Also, I will not cut GOONS slack. I will not ignore actions I clearly detest.[/color]
[/quote]

Indeed. I am not asking you to cut the GOONS slack. My only point was that in every announcement from the GOONS people seem to congregate to lay siege to them. It's everywhere, and it is doing the complete opposite of what people are trying to do. I believe I read it before in this thread, all the people that come into every GOONS thread and try to pick a fight with them is not making people want to not deal with the GOONS, it is making them want to communicate and get to know them.

You yourself have been fighting the GOONS with your words far longer than most people. So you are not a big deal. Besides the GOONS seem to like you anyway, so they aren't really effected when you come into their threads. However a large portion of the people that do hate upon the GOONS are bandwagoning the hate train in an attempt to get their five minutes of fame. Which is unfortunate because most that pick a battle with the GOONS quickly find out that they are much more intelligent than people think they are.

You have claims on the verbal battlefield with the GOONS that most do not. When I see you arguing with them I shrug it off because it is what you do and it is what people expect. As you say, you are someone who fights against all evils of the world. But if you did notice, I mentioned that it wasn't about you. It was about all the others that seem to join the GOONS thread to try and get a name for themselves.

You can keep on doing what you do best Rebel Virginia, that I won't ever mind. However the fact of the matter is that people that are bandwagoning on the hate train of the GOONS is another matter completely. And unfortunately I am starting to get sick and tired of reading a group of people slandering the GOONS name when they don't know anything about them, and the better part of them only hate them because they tech raid, and because they have read your posts against them and decided to fight a battle they know nothing about.


I had originally only planned on writing the one post and leaving it here in the thread so that some people could read it and hope that a few people realized their folly, but I was drawn here by you to continue in the defense of the GOONS. I personally don't wish to engage you in political debates on morals of what is right or wrong Rebel Virginia, because I personally like you and I enjoy the conversations we have from time to time. So I hope none of this will ruin the fact that we are on friendlier terms.

[Archanis]

[quote name='LokiLockpicker' date='20 May 2010 - 12:23 AM' timestamp='1274329364' post='2304210']
There are many things he's said that are true, not all, and he definitely talks beyond what needs/should be said. However, it is not slander (technically libel) if what he says is true
[/quote]Actually, I think it still technically counts as slander. Before you respond, I'm not arguing against you - I love RVs posts. Personally, I think they actually have the exact opposite effect of what he wants in that people tend to side with us MORE when he argues against us just cause he makes such ridiculous points. I'm just saying, for the sake of semantics, I THINK it all counts as slander whether or not it's true. It's just a matter of whether or not it's defaming.

If I'm wrong though, please DO correct me (not sarcasm). I hate having the wrong definition of things.

[quote name='Penkala' date='19 May 2010 - 11:53 PM' timestamp='1274327598' post='2304174']
You're going to need to do better than ad hominems, pal.
[/quote]While that wasn't an ad hominem attack in the slightest, just for clarification... Are you seriously saying we need to do better than ad hominems... [i]against RV[/i]?

No. No, we really don't.

Edited May 20, 2010 by Archanis

[Archanis]

[quote name='BloodFury' date='20 May 2010 - 05:50 AM' timestamp='1274349021' post='2304805']
Indeed. I am not asking you to cut the GOONS slack. My only point was that in every announcement from the GOONS people seem to congregate to lay siege to them. It's everywhere, and it is doing the complete opposite of what people are trying to do. I believe I read it before in this thread, all the people that come into every GOONS thread and try to pick a fight with them is not making people want to not deal with the GOONS, it is making them want to communicate and get to know them.

You yourself have been fighting the GOONS with your words far longer than most people. So you are not a big deal. Besides the GOONS seem to like you anyway, so they aren't really effected when you come into their threads. However a large portion of the people that do hate upon the GOONS are bandwagoning the hate train in an attempt to get their five minutes of fame. Which is unfortunate because most that pick a battle with the GOONS quickly find out that they are much more intelligent than people think they are.

You have claims on the verbal battlefield with the GOONS that most do not. When I see you arguing with them I shrug it off because it is what you do and it is what people expect. As you say, you are someone who fights against all evils of the world. But if you did notice, I mentioned that it wasn't about you. It was about all the others that seem to join the GOONS thread to try and get a name for themselves.

You can keep on doing what you do best Rebel Virginia, that I won't ever mind. However the fact of the matter is that people that are bandwagoning on the hate train of the GOONS is another matter completely. And unfortunately I am starting to get sick and tired of reading a group of people slandering the GOONS name when they don't know anything about them, and the better part of them only hate them because they tech raid, and because they have read your posts against them and decided to fight a battle they know nothing about.


I had originally only planned on writing the one post and leaving it here in the thread so that some people could read it and hope that a few people realized their folly, but I was drawn here by you to continue in the defense of the GOONS. I personally don't wish to engage you in political debates on morals of what is right or wrong Rebel Virginia, because I personally like you and I enjoy the conversations we have from time to time. So I hope none of this will ruin the fact that we are on friendlier terms.
[/quote]This is pretty much completely accurate. Are we jerks? Yeah, probably. But generally this is only to people we _like_. And I don't mean that jokingly, that's just how we are. Listen, the thing is, we're pretty easy going - we defend our friends and selves vehemently, sure, but outside of threads we very rarely hold things against people. Hell the other day I offered Methrage a day early peace on our war because I knew it'd end the next day ANY way and neither of could attack any more, so it was just for the sake of having an extra day of no wars on my screen. When he accepted, I said cheers and wished him well. And he's still technically an EoG. Imagine how we'd be with people who simply hate us but aren't warring us.

Honestly, if more people showed up on #cybergoons (I mean on irc.synirc.net; not coldfront.net. While they both exist, the majority of us ONLY use synirc) in IRC and just chatted it up with us, I am 90% certain we'd have far less grievances against us. And probably far less heated debates, since the responses could be much faster (and, altogether, much shorter).

Give it a shot. And that's to everyone, not just to RV.

Edited May 20, 2010 by Archanis

[Some-Guy]

Damn it!

I'm hactually in TOP and they sure as hell wouldn't pay 90 million dongs for me if I went rogue, maybe like, $2 and a temp trade, though.

You a lucky guy Meth.

[Believland]

[quote name='Haquertal' date='19 May 2010 - 10:50 PM' timestamp='1274323828' post='2304082']
Hindsight is always 20/100 with views like this.

Seriously, you weren't there, so what is your say in it?
[/quote]
I'm just t responding to you guys. I didn't even bring him up, duder, that was you guys.

[quote name='Beefspari' date='19 May 2010 - 11:05 PM' timestamp='1274324708' post='2304116']
Yeah, there was no "he doesn't try to come after you" about it. He'd hit ZI, then get secret aid, buy 1000 infra, and lob nukes. He declared several wars against us. He waved his nukes around saying "Peace with me or you get nuked." What everyone is saying about "omg ZI multiple times how ebil" is just coming out of the mouths of people who don't know the situation.

[b]EoG means we war them until they give up or we get bored. Not to mention, if they end up as EoG they did something to end up there. There are no "innocent children" sitting on our EoG list who don't deserve to be attacked. ZI can happen but isn't the goal. [/b] Methrage had plenty of chances to end the war but didn't want to take them. So TOP stepped in. Problem solved. Nothing left to discuss.

This thread isn't about PZI/EoG or even Methrage (directly) anyway.


Okay, well have fun with that. Let us know how it goes.
[/quote]
Why didn't you just say that in the first place? And I still have no idea why you're talking about him. Is he your crush? :skid:

[Beefspari]

[quote name='Believland' date='20 May 2010 - 01:56 PM' timestamp='1274385344' post='2305591']
Why didn't you just say that in the first place?
[/quote]
Why is it all our threads result in someone arguing against us saying this?

We do say this. In the first place. Like ten times every thread this comes up. But someone still shows up who thinks they know how we do things, and starts running their mouth. Every time. This was already said as much several times in this thread. And just about every thread we make, someone shouts "GOONS does PZI?! Evil!"

[Believland]

[quote name='Beefspari' date='20 May 2010 - 05:17 PM' timestamp='1274390251' post='2305716']
Why is it all our threads result in someone arguing against us saying this?

We do say this. In the first place. Like ten times every thread this comes up. But someone still shows up who thinks they know how we do things, and starts running their mouth. Every time. This was already said as much several times in this thread. And just about every thread we make, someone shouts "GOONS does PZI?! Evil!"
[/quote]
Sorry to break your heart, broskie. But you guys didn't say that at all. You basically said "Dude, I swear, EoG is not PZI!!!one11!!"
"Really? How so?"
Then you go on a tangent about Meth. Oh yeah, you also said something about how you guys let people off easier... But that really doesn't matter when if comes to PZI.

So the next time someone says something about it, you have a good response. But, I am glad that you finally spat out your answer though.