GOONS Announcement

[Wad of Lint]

[quote name='Sir Keshav IV' date='19 May 2010 - 11:19 AM' timestamp='1274282359' post='2303365']
Perhaps when I go rogue on MCXA with a WRC and nuke them for a long time, slander MCXA at every opportunity while going rogue, I expect white peace right?
[/quote]

I would expect counter-attacks for a while. Likely to stop at ZI if not before. I would not expect attacks after that point, nor would I expect to pay outrageous sums of money for them to cease.

[Sir Keshav IV]

[quote name='Wad of Lint' date='19 May 2010 - 03:30 PM' timestamp='1274282991' post='2303374']
I would expect counter-attacks for a while. Likely to stop at ZI if not before. I would not expect attacks after that point, nor would I expect to pay outrageous sums of money for them to cease.
[/quote]

But if I buy back infra and turtle? MCXA won't just let me go. They will put a price for my freedom. Every alliance would.

[nippy]

[quote name='Wad of Lint' date='19 May 2010 - 05:30 PM' timestamp='1274282991' post='2303374']
I would expect counter-attacks for a while. Likely to stop at ZI if not before. I would not expect attacks after that point, nor would I expect to pay outrageous sums of money for them to cease.
[/quote]

Yes, let's [i]coddle[/i] rogues. They're people too, after all.

Every rogue is a unique situation. Methrage's situation has been particularly interesting, as he has been one of the most backwards-thinking individuals we've ever had the pleasure to deal with. The only reason he's still an EoG is because he refused to acknowledge our requirements to remove him from our list as valid. We offer methods of removal to everyone that gets placed on this list, methods that have never been difficult yet may require a small lesson in humility. Incessant defiance during the peace process is clearly not the route to take when one is seriously attempting to attain peace...and Methrage has been far from a class-act. Without TOP's involvement, I doubt he would have ever seriously negotiated peace with us, because he has never really had intentions of following through with our demands. I wish the best to Yev and the rest of the guys that are paying for their loose-cannon of a friend. I seriously hope that their good nature isn't rewarded by another maligned action on Methrage's part.

[Ungern]

[quote name='Wad of Lint' date='19 May 2010 - 09:30 AM' timestamp='1274282991' post='2303374']
I would expect counter-attacks for a while. Likely to stop at ZI if not before. I would not expect attacks after that point, nor would I expect to pay outrageous sums of money for them to cease.
[/quote]

You misread him completely. But I'll bite:

You sound like a rational person which is why you can't look at this from your own perspective. You don't expect them to cease at all since you've solicited aid from your friends and are still fighting. You want them to give up so you can get away clean (after being told repeatedly you won't). Until of course, someone sues for peace on your behalf.

EDIT: beaten twice over

Edited May 19, 2010 by Ungern

[Tran Hung Dao]

For history's sake, lets review:

1. Accept millions of dollars from DAWN and IRON, declare war on Gre.
2. Ten days later, when your aid slots clear, accept aid from Gre, stop attacks against Gre.
3. See GOONS declared war on CSA over aiding of nations at war with the GOONS.
4. Ignore all that aid IRON and DAWN sent you to fight Gre, send some of it off to CSA, provoke a war with GOONS via your actions and words. Also encourage CSA nations to flaunt the GOONS surrender terms* and just alliance jump.
5. Get ZIed, attempt to set up a flow of aid (via secret aid and public details).
6. Rebuild and lob nukes with some level of frequency at the GOONS.
7. Whine because you aren't being given white peace. **


I guess Step 8 is to be used as a proxy by people who have a problem with us, but are afraid to say it to our faces. So you become a pawn used to make indirect political points.

At the end of the day, all I can is thank Methrage for introducing me to the GOONS and comment on the bravery of my fellow GOONS nations. Don't worry though, we're going to be a total pushover in war. I mean it wasn't like we had small nations waiting in line to get a shot at guy that had a MP and other military wonders and people eager to go multiple rounds and take multiple nukes from him. Just go ahead and declare, we'll be gone by the end of the week. Absolutely no staying power.

*For the record the one guy who had really tough terms was the CSA guy who sent the aid. Everyone else just had to surrender and was then free to chill in GOONS POW until they found a new home / the war was over. Two CSA members are currently members of the GOONS and the others have moved on. The terms themselves were not significant, the infringement upon our sovereignty was the key issue.

**Methrage's entire idea of negotiation was:

Monday: Show up and whine about how your nation has been totally destroyed and you've suffered enough and therefore you should get white peace. Reject any terms or even the concept of discussing terms. Repeat "White peace" like a broken record.
Tuesday: Get some aid, show up with a nuclear weapon in your stockpile. Demand you been given white peace or you will nuke someone. Claim this is not a threat. Fire nuke after being told the GOONS don't take threats well.
Wednesday: No nuke, show up and whine about how your nation has been totally destroyed and is militarily useless. Repeat until the next batch of aid comes in.

Repeat for 2 months, finally have your friends take pity on you and cover the bar tab you ran up.

[Ungern]

I really would've liked if he had called himself "METHRAGE" in all caps or just METH. Why call yourself something like methrage and not fire up the CAPSLOCK? You want to be taken seriously?

Edited May 19, 2010 by Ungern

[Dr Beefstupid]

[quote name='Rebel Virginia' date='19 May 2010 - 06:41 AM' timestamp='1274269249' post='2303237']
[color="#0000FF"]valid criticisms[/color]
[/quote]

Heh heh. Good one.

[Beefspari]

[quote name='ChairmanHal' date='19 May 2010 - 06:33 AM' timestamp='1274272405' post='2303264']
Of course there isn't anything controversial. You put a price on your "pain and suffering" above and beyond anything reasonable and TOP cheerfully paid it...very GOD-like of you. Please, laugh all the way to the bank.
[/quote]
Seriously, what is with this rampant misinformation by people who had nothing to do with the situation?

For your information, TOP thought 90m was cheap. They were expecting to have to talk us down to 120m, which is what they were expecting to pay. So wherever you come with this "above and beyond reasonable" thing, both GOONS and TOP are perfectly happy with this price tag. So who are you speaking for that matters in this scenario?

[ktarthan]

[quote name='Beefspari' date='19 May 2010 - 10:18 AM' timestamp='1274289489' post='2303488']
Seriously, what is with this rampant misinformation by people who had nothing to do with the situation?

For your information, TOP thought 90m was cheap. They were expecting to have to talk us down to 120m, which is what they were expecting to pay. So wherever you come with this "above and beyond reasonable" thing, both GOONS and TOP are perfectly happy with this price tag. So who are you speaking for that matters in this scenario?
[/quote]
Maybe there's some sort of "Blue Book" for rogues? Maybe we should have consulted that before setting a price for our Methrage.

[Haquertal]

[quote name='ktarthan' date='19 May 2010 - 01:23 PM' timestamp='1274289813' post='2303492']
Maybe there's some sort of "Blue Book" for rogues? Maybe we should have consulted that before setting a price for our Methrage.
[/quote]

I think that most people just don't understand the amount of damage he did, or they just want to always be opposing GOONS. That being said, I vote that there be a blue book price made for it.

[AirMe]

[quote name='Haquertal' date='19 May 2010 - 01:25 PM' timestamp='1274289941' post='2303494']
I think that most people just don't understand the amount of damage he did, or they just want to always be opposing GOONS. That being said, I vote that there be a blue book price made for it.
[/quote]

A lot of people have blind irrational hatred of GOONS just like they do with the NPO and just like they did with MK for a long time. That is all this is. People bumping their gums because they don't like you instead of using the facts to base their criticism on.

You could announce that GOONS were going to donate all of their tech to an orphanage and the same people would be in here saying it was oppressive.

[Haquertal]

[quote name='AirMe' date='19 May 2010 - 01:30 PM' timestamp='1274290217' post='2303496']
A lot of people have blind irrational hatred of GOONS just like they do with the NPO and just like they did with MK for a long time. That is all this is. People bumping their gums because they don't like you instead of using the facts to base their criticism on.

You could announce that GOONS were going to donate all of their tech to an orphanage and the same people would be in here saying it was oppressive.
[/quote]

Didn't you know that we GOONS eat our young? We'd just give the tech to the orphanage, then go in and eat the kids and get our sweet, sweet tech back, obviously.

[Dr Beefstupid]

[quote name='AirMe' date='19 May 2010 - 12:30 PM' timestamp='1274290217' post='2303496']
People bumping their gums because they don't like you instead of using the facts to base their criticism on.[/quote]

Nobody cares about facts. Only truth.

[Stilcho]

[quote name='ChairmanHal' date='19 May 2010 - 05:33 AM' timestamp='1274272405' post='2303264']
... but I guess if you can get $90 million for him, you can called whatever you want.
[/quote]

Not anymore. The Naming of Funny and Descriptive Names is someone Else's toil now.

[Chief Savage Man]

I'd be flattered if I was Methrage. Nobody would pay 90 million for me.

[Ungern]

[quote name='Chief Savage Man' date='19 May 2010 - 12:17 PM' timestamp='1274293011' post='2303524']
I'd be flattered if I was Methrage. Nobody would pay 90 million for me.
[/quote]
His friends have payed a lot more than that. They will probably continue to do so in the future; the entertainment he gives them in return is payment enough.

[The AUT]

[quote name='AirMe' date='19 May 2010 - 06:30 PM' timestamp='1274290217' post='2303496']
A lot of people have blind irrational hatred of GOONS just like they do with the NPO and just like they did with MK for a long time. That is all this is. People bumping their gums because they don't like you instead of using the facts to base their criticism on.

You could announce that GOONS were going to donate all of their tech to an orphanage and the same people would be in here saying it was oppressive.
[/quote]

Apparently GOONS demanding 90 million from an alliance in order to let a nation off of ZI is the equivalent to donating all of their tech to an orphanage. Seriously how do you guys come up with these?

Edited May 19, 2010 by The AUT

[magicmountain]

[quote name='The AUT' date='19 May 2010 - 12:47 PM' timestamp='1274294840' post='2303541']
GOONS demanding
[/quote]

The only thing GOONS are demanding is that people read the thread before they form an opinion

[Beefspari]

[quote name='The AUT' date='19 May 2010 - 12:47 PM' timestamp='1274294840' post='2303541']
GOONS demanding 90 million from an alliance in order to let a nation off of ZI
[/quote]
Yes, that's EXACTLY how it happened. Thanks for your contribution.

[ktarthan]

[quote name='The AUT' date='19 May 2010 - 11:47 AM' timestamp='1274294840' post='2303541']
Apparently GOONS demanding 90 million from an alliance in order to let a nation off of ZI is the equivalent to donating all of their tech to an orphanage. Seriously how do you guys come up with these?
[/quote]
As well as the points mentioned above, he wasn't trying to equate them. Even if you're going to spin the issue, at least make a relevant point.

[The AUT]

[quote name='ktarthan' date='19 May 2010 - 08:00 PM' timestamp='1274295582' post='2303552']
As well as the points mentioned above, he wasn't trying to equate them. Even if you're going to spin the issue, at least make a relevant point.
[/quote]

Whether or not he was trying to equate them is irrelevant, the parallel drawn as to why people hate GOONS and if GOONS did something nice for a change was a false analogy.

[Ungern]

You're a false analogy

[ktarthan]

[quote name='The AUT' date='19 May 2010 - 12:08 PM' timestamp='1274296089' post='2303558']
Whether or not he was trying to equate them is irrelevant[1], the parallel drawn as to why people hate GOONS[2] and if GOONS did something nice for a change was a false analogy[3].
[/quote]
[1] Yes, it is relevant because that was your entire refutation. This is all you did:

[Spin version of current situation] [Misrepresentation of the statement being refuted]. [Smug rhetorical question]?

[2] If the parallel is incorrect, why not just say so?

[3] It wasn't an analogy.

Edited May 19, 2010 by ktarthan

[The AUT]

[quote][2] If the parallel is incorrect, why not just say so?[/quote]

[OOC] English isn't my first language [/OOC] and I like to complicate things

[quote][3] It wasn't an analogy. [/quote]

If I'm not mistaken, comparing something by giving another hypothetical story is an analogy.

[Alfred von Tirpitz]

GOONS if you were gonna let the chap go, you ought to have given the bloke white peace, that way, all of the rogues in waiting would have had a shot at white peace, what with the precedent being set and all.

You messed up, big time.

Or you could have not given into the bribe, hence would have not posted this here, it is clearly an obvious attempt to draw attention away from the atrocities being committed by a 35 man alliance on the aqua sphere against slightly larger alliances on the orange sphere. You sir, are an enabler.

GOONS