Is the war over or are the terms eternal?

[Dochartaigh]

[quote name='Arthur Blair' date='25 April 2010 - 12:42 PM' timestamp='1272217305' post='2274483']
Agreed.



Yes. It's certainly a tough fight and you might not make it. I don't think it's fair to call it eternal just because you don't know the timespan or outcome though.



You're welcome, though I doubt it'll have much of an effect. I am after all just a cog in the hate machine that is the new hegemony.



Again you are most welcome. If we keep eradicating a couple of things a day, in a couple of years their slate might be wiped clean.
[/quote]

lawlz. i agree, eternal was the wrong word, hence why i started using indefinite later on in my post. a big thanks to Bob for that one.

[Finch]

I like to think since the Gremlins came in without any treaties etc... that they are fighting a separate war and thus do not consider them apart of the war that just passed so they have no effect on the surrender terms etc...except the ones that for the separate war they are waging against IRON/DAWN.

[Dochartaigh]

[quote name='Bill Adama' date='25 April 2010 - 01:05 PM' timestamp='1272218741' post='2274513']
I like to think since the Gremlins came in without any treaties etc... that they are fighting a separate war and thus do not consider them apart of the war that just passed so they have no effect on the surrender terms etc...except the ones that for the separate war they are waging against IRON/DAWN.
[/quote]

but that only applies to TIDTT...

[TypoNinja]

[quote name='ChairmanHal' date='25 April 2010 - 12:22 PM' timestamp='1272212504' post='2274396']
A number of your bloc colleagues have made it rather clear through these forums that such an appeal would be a waste of breath. True enough, people are rebuilding in one way or another and that probably also factors into it.
[/quote]

Such an appeal on the OWF is a waste of breath certainly, in fact it was probably counter productive.

However no one has approached the VE on this matter, and the VE has not empowered anyone to speak for us in this matter. If you have not spoken to us, you do not have our position on the matter. You've determined its a waste of time to try diplomacy right off the bat, the fault lies in you, not us.

[ktarthan]

[quote name='Alterego' date='25 April 2010 - 02:33 AM' timestamp='1272187973' post='2274175']
Unforseen or engineered that way?
[/quote]
Why don't you actually go to the alliances you are having issue with, and discuss it with them, instead of making wild assumptions and spewing them on a public forum?

[Haflinger]

[quote name='ktarthan' date='25 April 2010 - 02:27 PM' timestamp='1272220049' post='2274542']
Why don't you actually go to the alliances you are having issue with, and discuss it with them, instead of making wild assumptions and spewing them on a public forum?
[/quote]
Sssh. If people stopped making wild assumptions, these forums would get about 10-20 new posts each week.

[SirWilliam]

[quote name='Alterego' date='25 April 2010 - 05:33 AM' timestamp='1272187973' post='2274175']
The problem is you say the war is over but still ongoing.
[/quote]
Incorrect. I've never said the war is over. As part of my personal commentary following the Easter Sunday Accords - which you referenced and quoted in the OP - I did however state fact and say that the war (in terms of involvement) is over for some and on some fronts (as in war being over for everyone, including MK, who was no longer involved, being everyone other than Grämlins, IRON, and DAWN). That's what was meant when I said "I’m pleased we can finally end this war and put this all behind us [b](even if only partially on some fronts)[/b]." (emphasis added). Any other interpretation is just that, an interpretation, and doesn't reflect actual meaning.

[quote name='Alterego' date='25 April 2010 - 05:33 AM' timestamp='1272187973' post='2274175']You dont agree with what Gramlins are doing but you (your side)are allowing them to keep many alliances under terms that could still be going next year if Gramlins/IRON refuse to yield and your side pretend you are hands are tied on a technicality.
[/quote]
Hands aren't tied on a technicality; "hands are tied" on terms that were agreed to. If any of the defeated parties desire changes to their terms however that would of course be something they'd need to work out with those they signed them with.

[quote name='Alterego' date='25 April 2010 - 05:33 AM' timestamp='1272187973' post='2274175']
What I qouted was the official MK position on the war.
[/quote]
It was personal commentary not reflective of any policy or stance (I do rather like that you first misinterpret my words entirely in a novel manner and then dictate that the misinterpretation reflects MK and C&G policy). Granted government words are generally regarded as being "official", the words being discussed here, as mentioned, reflect personal statements and not policy or stance.

[quote name='Alterego' date='25 April 2010 - 05:33 AM' timestamp='1272187973' post='2274175']
MK/C&G are the ones keeping all the alliances who sigened similar terms under terms because they refuse to say the conflict is over or ammend their official position that allows the restrictions to end without neccessarly telling people they can go off and attack Gramlins. That option is already there, anyone wanting to attack Gramlins can simply join IRON or DAWN. This is about placing potentially unending terms of lots of alliances and using Gramlins as the patsy.
[/quote]
That's quite a stretch seeing as how MK/C&G have nothing to do with or any say in others' terms.

[Penkala]

[quote name='Alterego' date='25 April 2010 - 06:41 AM' timestamp='1272192099' post='2274201']
*Yawn*
Having blind faith in an alliance that has shown it cant be trusted is a fine quality. Even their allies have said they dont know what the plan is but they back them and assume that they will do nothing once IRON have disarmed and come out of peace mode. That same alliance that apparently has all of you frustrated for doing their own thing and going against all your wishes will suddenly fall in line? Blind faith in Gramlins at this point just shows you are blind. This still doesnt address why others cant be released from terms. If Gramlins are doing their own thing and trying something different that shouldnt mean that the alliances who accepted surrenders have to give up control of their foreign policy to the bandwagoners in Gramlins and let them dictate when they end the terms.
[/quote]

TOP said IRON had close to 100 nation who could 'fight forever' (or was it a year? I think it was forever...). That means IRON could afford to unconditionally surrender and re-arm and fight should the terms be unacceptable.

OR they can take 15 60kNS nations (or around there) out of peace mode and start chomping at anything below 75k NS on the Gremlins. Knock them down to the 30k NS range where you can just jump all over them and ZI them.

OR they can sit here, do nothing, and whine.

The first 2 options are decent ways to end this. The last one is a good way to portray yourself as a terrible victim of the oppressive SG hegemony.

Listen, I don't envy your position, IRON. But all your calls for us to open the floodgates and allow all your allies to pound Gremlins.. well, it's kind of ridiculous. You have some of the tools to do crippling damage to Gremlins in your alliance. You just don't want to use them because it'd cause you damage, too. It's a pretty common mindset for ex-Hegemony alliances: If you can't attack them with 5x the capabilities they have, then back away. Unfortunately, you don't have that luxury anymore. So either man up and take your licks or don't. I sure as hell know I'd rather go down hurting Gremlins than sit in peace mode for a year. But to each his own. Protect your stats if you wish. Just don't expect any sympathy from me when you whine about your predicament and how you need backup when you haven't exhausted your options for pressuring Gremlins yourself.

Thus far you've taken the easy routes to pressure Gremlins. You've tried to cut off tech, you've posted your predicament to the world, and you've attacked their low NS nations. And then you said "well we tried we can't get them off of us give us help please!" If you go down swinging and it's still not enough to get Gremlins off your back, you'll gain a lot of good PR (for not being all talk) and I have a feeling a lot of people would be much more willing to hear you out when you try to explain that you're out of options and need help to be allowed in.

That's my 2 cents. Take it or leave it. Your call.

Edited April 25, 2010 by Penkala

[The AUT]

[quote]That's my 2 cents. Take it or leave it. Your call. [/quote]

That's right IRON, your entire existence hinges on Penkala's two cents.

[Penkala]

[quote name='The AUT' date='25 April 2010 - 04:02 PM' timestamp='1272225705' post='2274694']
That's right IRON, your entire existence hinges on Penkala's two cents.
[/quote]

Wait, what?

What are you going on about this time, Aut? *sigh*

[Ashoka the Great]

[quote name='Lord Brendan' date='25 April 2010 - 11:03 AM' timestamp='1272207791' post='2274310']
Tromp and Kingzog are the only people that have posted in this thread that have any authority to actually answer those questions (for your alliance, at least), and neither have addressed them.[/quote]

I assure you I do not possess that authority.

[Nobody Expects]

For the record, does BAPS have the authorisation to attack Gramlins, should we wish to, from those alliances we submitted to terms with?

Edited April 25, 2010 by Nobody Expects

[sethb]

[quote name='Nobody Expects' date='25 April 2010 - 10:07 PM' timestamp='1272229616' post='2274789']
For the record, does BAPS have the authorisation to attack Gramlins, should we wish to, from those alliances we submitted to terms with?
[/quote]
Perhaps you should go ask those you surrendered to.

Just a thought.

Edited April 25, 2010 by sethb

[Nobody Expects]

[quote name='sethb' date='25 April 2010 - 10:11 PM' timestamp='1272229887' post='2274796']
Perhaps you should go ask those you surrendered to.

Just a thought.
[/quote]

I just did, I thought.

[sethb]

[quote name='Nobody Expects' date='25 April 2010 - 10:13 PM' timestamp='1272229996' post='2274800']
I just did, I thought.
[/quote]
Typically such things are handled privately.

[Nobody Expects]

[quote name='sethb' date='25 April 2010 - 10:15 PM' timestamp='1272230112' post='2274804']
Typically such things are handled privately.
[/quote]

This is not a typical situation.....

[Lord Brendan]

Tromp already answered the question publicly. From what I understand from his clarification, no, BAPS is not allowed to declare war on Gremlins since it is part of the war you surrendered in.

[Tromp]

Lord Brendan has it right, and seriously I thought NE was pretty clear when he initially posted his view on the terms BAPS accepted.

[Nobody Expects]

[quote name='Tromp' date='25 April 2010 - 11:03 PM' timestamp='1272232985' post='2274874']
Lord Brendan has it right, and seriously I thought NE was pretty clear when he initially posted his view on the terms BAPS accepted.
[/quote]

Aye the terms are quite clear imo, just interesting to note you tacitly support Gramlins madness by refusing to allow others to bring it to a swift conclusion....

[Tromp]

[quote name='Nobody Expects' date='26 April 2010 - 12:07 AM' timestamp='1272233235' post='2274881']
Aye the terms are quite clear imo, just interesting to note you tacitly support Gramlins madness by refusing to allow others to bring it to a swift conclusion....
[/quote]
FOK in no way supports Gremlins in their current war against IRON/DAWN.
I think I've already been very receptive to your complaints by giving white peace to my opponents on that front, as other alliances have done too.

[silentkiller]

[quote name='Tromp' date='25 April 2010 - 11:15 PM' timestamp='1272233704' post='2274896']
FOK in no way supports Gremlins in their current war against IRON/DAWN.
I think I've already been very receptive to your complaints by giving white peace to my opponents on that front, as other alliances have done too.
[/quote]

What exactly is stopping you from releasing BAPS from their terms again?

Edit: That is if you are indeed refusing to release them from the terms.

Edited April 25, 2010 by silentkiller

[Haflinger]

[quote name='Tromp' date='25 April 2010 - 06:15 PM' timestamp='1272233704' post='2274896']
FOK in no way supports Gremlins in their current war against IRON/DAWN.
I think I've already been very receptive to your complaints by giving white peace to my opponents on that front, as other alliances have done too.
[/quote]
You support Gremlins in their current war by holding alliances that would take action against Gramlins out of the war.

[Tromp]

[quote name='silentkiller' date='26 April 2010 - 12:24 AM' timestamp='1272234242' post='2274907']
What exactly is stopping you from releasing BAPS from their terms again?

Edit: That is if you are indeed refusing to release them from the terms.
[/quote]
Nobody has made any request whatsoever, and that kind of makes all this talk worthless and even more hilarious.

[quote name='Haflinger' date='26 April 2010 - 12:28 AM' timestamp='1272234487' post='2274915']
You support Gremlins in their current war by holding alliances that would take action against Gramlins out of the war.
[/quote]
In the same way all of those alliances [i]chose[/i] to leave the war by agreeing to such a term.
See how silly it is to say such a thing?

[Nobody Expects]

[quote name='Tromp' date='25 April 2010 - 11:31 PM' timestamp='1272234700' post='2274920']
Nobody has made any request whatsoever, and that kind of makes all this talk worthless and even more hilarious.
[/quote]

I just made a request to see if this was feasible, just a few posts ago.......

[Tromp]

[quote name='Nobody Expects' date='26 April 2010 - 12:34 AM' timestamp='1272234837' post='2274921']
I just made a request to see if this was feasible, just a few posts ago.......
[/quote]
[quote name='Nobody Expects' date='25 April 2010 - 05:28 PM' timestamp='1272209306' post='2274332']
BAPS considers the war to be over, except with regard to those few AA's still fighting. Should any new war start, for any reason, other than connected to Gramlins v IRON etc, our terms would not be relevant to it, and we would involve ourselves at our discretion as we see fit.
[/quote]