The New Grämlins

[Dochartaigh]

[quote name='SynthFG' date='21 May 2010 - 05:33 PM' timestamp='1274481216' post='2307343']
Grämlins has fallen, there is nothing left but the ego and those blindly following it,
Take the FH and the banks out of the equation and there is not enough left to even think about rebuilding a community

Were they facing anything like a competent opponent or if those bleating in this thread had the balls to back their words by I don't know temporarily joining IRON this would have been over weeks ago

Its way past time for the Gre Dark Council to perform its final constitutional duty
[/quote]

hey, i resent that. i did have the balls to join a month ago and am still fighting. though my target was taken sadly before i had the chance to raise my NS just enough to hit him.

[Gamemaster1]

[quote name='Penkala' date='21 May 2010 - 10:34 PM' timestamp='1274495640' post='2307560']
Really. Competent opponent. Which you really aren't. He's right. This could have -- and should have -- been over weeks ago. But instead you continue to whine here rather than doing something to end it.
[/quote]
Oh really. Enlighten us with your competence.

[JimKongIl]

[quote name='Penkala' date='21 May 2010 - 09:34 PM' timestamp='1274495640' post='2307560']
Really. Competent opponent. Which you really aren't. He's right. This could have -- and should have -- been over weeks ago. But instead you continue to whine here rather than doing something to end it.
[/quote]

I'm curious, what do you think that IRON/DAWN should have done differently to end this "weeks ago" short of unconditional surrender?

Edited May 22, 2010 by JimKongIl

[Penkala]

[quote name='JimKongIl' date='21 May 2010 - 10:53 PM' timestamp='1274496779' post='2307591']
I'm curious, what do you think that IRON/DAWN should have done differently to end this "weeks ago" short of unconditional surrender?
[/quote]

Well first, you could have had your high NS allies stay in and focus their resources on Gremlins.

Or you could come out of peace mode and fight them...

Or you could have your allies' members join your alliance and fight them...

Or if you don't want to fight, you could surrender....

There are your four options to end this. Three of which don't include surrender. All four of which don't including calling in allies.

[Dochartaigh]

[quote name='Penkala' date='21 May 2010 - 10:08 PM' timestamp='1274497717' post='2307618']
Well first, you could have had your high NS allies stay in and focus their resources on Gremlins.

Or you could come out of peace mode and fight them...

Or you could have your allies' members join your alliance and fight them...

Or if you don't want to fight, you could surrender....

There are your four options to end this. Three of which don't include surrender. All four of which don't including calling in allies.
[/quote]

1) So IRON/DAWN should have allowed their allies to take even more damage and also hope that everyone else that was on Gremlins side said "Hey guys, why don't we let TOP and the others stay in to fight Gremlins so that IRON/DAWN don't have to go it alone"... really, this actually crossed your mind? wow. just simply wow.

2) Right, so IRON's upper tier come out of PM, outnumbered by Gre's upper tier (especially at the beginning of this), get stomped on for a while and end up doing what exactly? oh that is right, getting destroyed while possibly bringing down half of Gre's upper NS nations leaving IRON in a worse position than keeping their upper NS nations in pm. yep, you sure are showing your competency here Penkala.

3) If you have not realize but IRON's and DAWN's allies are currently under terms, paying off reperations, and/or rebuilding. seems to me that IRON and DAWN are allowing their allies to do this and also, if you have not noticed, IRON has gained several upper NS nations throughout this war. it may not be all at once, but there are nations joining them.

4) yeah, maybe you would accept unconditional surrender but most others would not.

so yeah, you want to talk about how incompetent IRON is, but have shown a complete lack of anything that could be called remotely competent in your above options. you simply disregard everything that is occurring or has occurred and you appear to have some sort of delusional thought process going on instead. i hear you like alliance hopping. Gremlins i am sure would have you aboard. ya'll think alike.

[The Warrior]

[quote name='Penkala' date='22 May 2010 - 03:34 AM' timestamp='1274495640' post='2307560']
Really. Competent opponent. Which you really aren't. He's right. This could have -- and should have -- been over weeks ago. But instead you continue to whine here rather than doing something to end it.
[/quote]

You said one thing right here. It [b]should have[/b] ended weeks ago. And no, we aren't sitting here whining. We are working to end the war. White peace has been on the table for the Gramlins for weeks.

I think its hilarious that our competency is being brought into question here. It appears that the Gramlins are losing everything they have while we gain in strength each day.

[JimKongIl]

[quote name='Penkala' date='21 May 2010 - 10:08 PM' timestamp='1274497717' post='2307618']
Well first, you could have had your high NS allies stay in and focus their resources on Gremlins.

Or you could come out of peace mode and fight them...

Or you could have your allies' members join your alliance and fight them...

Or if you don't want to fight, you could surrender....

There are your four options to end this. Three of which don't include surrender. All four of which don't including calling in allies.
[/quote]

Options 1 and 3 are the same and IRON's allies are sovereign alliances. IRON doesn't tell them what to do. Many of them would violate their own peace terms by re-entering the fight and they would open themselves up to a resumption of hostilities. I'm confused why you say "All four of which don't including calling in allies."

Option 2- Its easy to play armchair quarterback from the sidelines but if you look at the facts and knew a little bit about CN warfare you'd realize that for IRON to beat Gramlins militarily it would not be an easy task and it would take a very long time. That strategy will only work in the lower ranks. There would need to be a plan B for it to succeed. For you to say that IRON could have ended this weeks ago if 11% of them had come out of peace mode and fought seems a bit naive and unrealistic.

So your only viable option is #4 and the basis for your argument that IRON/DAWN are not competent opponents is because they have not surrendered unconditionally. Does that make any sense at all?

With all due respect your efficiency is under 10 and you are almost 500 days old so you are saying do as I say not as I do.

Edited May 22, 2010 by JimKongIl

[Cabl3n3k3]

Come down from your clouds people. Ignorantly spewing comments of IRON's competency at this point in time is ridiculous. I forget, which alliance has been actively digging its grave for weeks now? IRON/DAWN is doing exactly what any competent alliances should be doing; achieving victory while taking minimal damage.

Edited May 22, 2010 by Cabl3n3k3

[PhysicsJunky]

[quote name='Cabl3n3k3' date='21 May 2010 - 11:52 PM' timestamp='1274500329' post='2307666']
Come down from your clouds people. Ignorantly spewing comments of IRON's competency at this point in time is ridiculous. I forget, which alliance has been actively digging its grave for weeks now? IRON/DAWN is doing exactly what any competent alliances should be doing; achieving victory while taking minimal damage.
[/quote]
I was going to chime in to say mostly what you beat me to. I'm on record as being quite the opposite of a personal fan of IRON and I think they've played this whole situation out very well. Additionally I've seen that opinion generally shared by the few people I talk to nowadays.

[SynthFG]

[quote name='ChairmanHal' date='22 May 2010 - 02:02 AM' timestamp='1274490134' post='2307476']
From your remarks, if I didn't know better, I'd swear you'd love it if war-weary, depleted nations with not much warchest left did a massive banzai charge to finish Gramlins, after which you'd promptly hand them the bill for the first of the reparations payments you'll insist they start paying promptly.

Here's an idea...want the money faster? Take Gramlins out yourself. As you say, they should disband anyway.
[/quote]

war-weary, depleted nations with not much warchest left

Which part of Did not fight at all are you not getting about IRON's remaining top end, and last time I looked (admittedly a few days before easter) all of those top end IRON nations had a significant war chest

I'm not going to tell you how to defeat my former comrades but it shouldn't take a genius to figure it out

And on a side note I will not take reps directly from IRON, I still think the principals behind the codex have meaning even if I have moved on, the only pain I feal is witnessing the slow death of something I loved

[Baldr]

[quote name='SynthFG' date='21 May 2010 - 05:33 PM' timestamp='1274481216' post='2307343']
Were they facing anything like a competent opponent or if those bleating in this thread had the balls to back their words by I don't know temporarily joining IRON this would have been over weeks ago[/quote]

IRON and DAWN are winning.

If you want to argue that Gramlins is so incompetent that even an incompetent opponent who had just been beat down in a global war can tear them apart, you go ahead.

From where I sit, it looks like IRON and DAWN have played their cards well. Gramlins is falling apart, losing NS, and isn't controlling the war at all. IRON's stats, on the other hand, are growing in the middle of a war that most predicted they would lose.

Sure, they could have done the "pull everyone out of Peace Mode and try to bull rush Gramlins and hope it works" thing. But apparently they've decided they would prefer to win the war instead of doing stupid stuff like that.

[Golan 1st]

Synth, we are winning the war. We don't need "heroes" when we can just grind Gramlins until they either fade or realize that the war is lost and agree to a reasonable settlement of this conflict, whichever comes first.
I naturally want Gramlins to lose this war. However, and now I am dead serious and write without irony, I am not happy at all with what happened to the once respectable Gramlins, an alliance which was an example to others and set new standards in this world.

[Yggdrazil]

[quote name='Golan 1st' date='22 May 2010 - 03:51 AM' timestamp='1274518250' post='2307862']

I naturally want Gramlins to lose this war. However, and now I am dead serious and write without irony, I am not happy at all with what happened to the once respectable Gramlins, an alliance which was an example to others and set new standards in this world.
[/quote]
If they persist with their goal, I wish them to lose. For myself, they and Iron and Dawn could just walk away from each other. I think I speak correctly, Gre's defeat is not Iron's pursuit just defeating Gre's objective.

Edited May 22, 2010 by Yggdrazil

[SynthFG]

[quote name='Golan 1st' date='22 May 2010 - 09:51 AM' timestamp='1274518250' post='2307862']
Synth, we are winning the war. We don't need "heroes" when we can just grind Gramlins until they either fade or realize that the war is lost and agree to a reasonable settlement of this conflict, whichever comes first.
I naturally want Gramlins to lose this war. However, and now I am dead serious and write without irony, I am not happy at all with what happened to the once respectable Gramlins, an alliance which was an example to others and set new standards in this world.
[/quote]

I wouldn't say you are winning, more watching a corpse slowly rot,
If you are happy with sitting bashing a couple of Filipino kids whilst waiting for Gre's inevitable final demise then ok fine,
But if that is the case then can we see less bawwing about how long this is taking

[Haflinger]

Synth, they haven't been complaining about how long it's taking. I don't actually think they want to win the war quickly. It's your alliance and the others they owe reps to that wants them to win quickly.

[Golan 1st]

[quote name='SynthFG' date='22 May 2010 - 02:02 PM' timestamp='1274526125' post='2307892']
I wouldn't say you are winning, more watching a corpse slowly rot,
If you are happy with sitting bashing a couple of Filipino kids whilst waiting for Gre's inevitable final demise then ok fine,
But if that is the case then can we see less bawwing about how long this is taking[/quote]Call it whatever you want. Gramlins will either surrender, disappear, or become a group of useless corpses. For me, this is victory.
As for the "bawwing", we did not want to continue the war. It was Gramlins' choice to continue until they are defeated in a war they have already won. Our choice to not employ suicidal tactics does not deny us the right to condemn Gramlins for the direct and indirect damages caused to us by this futile continuation of the war.

[Thorgrum]

At this point I don't want it to end either, that would eliminate a wonderful source of entertainment on many levels, I mean just a few pages ago we had Penkala espousing the virtues of competency. Ending it now would be tragic, who knows what gems will come next? Maybe Dilber will reply on how the gramlins can rebuild their FA after the war? Perhaps another Janova post on how CnG had it coming as they were planning to attack anyway (AKA it's all polars fault)? Perhaps Matthew will show up again for another scintillating round of intellectual banter revolving around the literal definition of, and placement of the word "condition" in a reply 49 posts back? Maybe one of the old Gramlins will reappear again, 18 months later and wax poetic about how the alliance, they left, went into the !@#$ter? Maybe someone will join bigbad and rogue gre under some pseudo white knight premise?

You want this ended? This is absolutely a treasure and you'd be @#$% for killing this, the whole community would be in anguish

Edited May 22, 2010 by Thorgrum

[Link Gaetz]

Someone ought to go hero and pull Ramirus down low enough for the feeding frenzy to overtake him and make him pay directly for all this nonsense. Maybe that'd knock a little sense into him? At least it'd be fun to see.

[ChairmanHal]

[quote name='SynthFG' date='22 May 2010 - 04:10 AM' timestamp='1274515833' post='2307847']
war-weary, depleted nations with not much warchest left

Which part of Did not fight at all are you not getting about IRON's remaining top end, and last time I looked (admittedly a few days before easter) all of those top end IRON nations had a significant war chest[/quote]

Look again and do the math. Those top-end Gramlins nations have been sitting there, out of Peace Mode and collecting for weeks. IRON will pay dearly for each Gramlins nation that they take down. They have [b]no[/b] incentive to launch a frontal assault.

[quote]And on a side note I will not take reps directly from IRON, I still think the principals behind the codex have meaning even if I have moved on, the only pain I feal is witnessing the slow death of something I loved
[/quote]

When I say 'you' I mean MK and all those due reparations from IRON when this "charles foxtrot" ends. I understand perfectly why you personally would want to stay out it and are sorrowed by this display. My gut reaction: it's a damned, sad waste.

[Zangmonkey]

[quote name='Link Gaetz' date='22 May 2010 - 09:00 AM' timestamp='1274544025' post='2308041']
Someone ought to go hero and pull Ramirus down low enough for the feeding frenzy to overtake him and make him pay directly for all this nonsense. Maybe that'd knock a little sense into him? At least it'd be fun to see.
[/quote]

TOP tried that with MOTU, remember?

[Link Gaetz]

[quote name='Matthew PK' date='22 May 2010 - 09:03 AM' timestamp='1274547801' post='2308106']
TOP tried that with MOTU, remember?
[/quote]
No. Not sure what that would have to do with knocking Ram down a peg or two though. It's easy to send others to their doom when you're sitting in comfort.

[Clash]

[quote name='Wabooz' date='15 May 2010 - 10:33 AM' timestamp='1273941205' post='2298822']
Does that go both ways.. if Gremlins come out of this the loser and have to pay restitution(reps) will the slate still be clean between you and IRON?[/quote]
Meh, done reading after this.
Wabooz rules.

The IRON chart:
http://www.cybernations.net/stats_alliance_stats_custom.asp?Alliance=IRON&input1=Independent+Republic+Of+Orange+Nations
That NS chart goes up!

The Gremlins Chart:
http://www.cybernations.net/stats_alliance_stats_custom.asp?Alliance=The+gremlins&input1=The+Gr%E4mlins
This NS chart goes down.

I don't think it's wrong to say IRON is winning this war. That should be obvious even to those sniveling about their methods. Of course, Gremlins did declare on IRON. So if IRON wins, this means Gremlins owes IRON reps doesn't it? By Gremlins own logic? That kind of makes Gremlins current demands of reps from IRON rather moot, doesn't it? IRON will obviously owe Gremlins nothing after ending them.

Does anyone think it matters that IRON doesn't do reps these days?
I bet it does to the Gremlins

Everyone can go home now, nothing more to see in this thread.

[Zangmonkey]

[quote name='Link Gaetz' date='22 May 2010 - 10:07 AM' timestamp='1274548044' post='2308110']
No. Not sure what that would have to do with knocking Ram down a peg or two though. It's easy to send others to their doom when you're sitting in comfort.
[/quote]

I assure you this will not affect GRE resolve.

[Zangmonkey]

[quote name='Clash' date='22 May 2010 - 10:10 AM' timestamp='1274548198' post='2308114']
Meh, done reading after this.
Wabooz rules.

The IRON chart:
http://www.cybernations.net/stats_alliance_stats_custom.asp?Alliance=IRON&input1=Independent+Republic+Of+Orange+Nations
That NS chart goes up!

The Gremlins Chart:
http://www.cybernations.net/stats_alliance_stats_custom.asp?Alliance=The+gremlins&input1=The+Gr%E4mlins
This NS chart goes down.

I don't think it's wrong to say IRON is winning this war. That should be obvious even to those sniveling about their methods. Of course, Gremlins did declare on IRON. So if IRON wins, this means Gremlins owes IRON reps doesn't it? By Gremlins own logic? That kind of makes Gremlins current demands of reps from IRON rather moot, doesn't it? IRON will obviously owe Gremlins nothing after ending them.

Does anyone think it matters that IRON doesn't do reps these days?
I bet it does to the Gremlins

Everyone can go home now, nothing more to see in this thread.
[/quote]


Seems like you didn't really read much.


I am pretty sure The Gremlins will not pay reps per our codex of war.

[Link Gaetz]

[quote name='Matthew PK' date='22 May 2010 - 09:20 AM' timestamp='1274548813' post='2308118']
I assure you this will not affect GRE resolve.
[/quote]
Probably true. I was assuming some level of rational behavior. But, it'd be fun to see nonetheless.