Golan 1st

Congratulations to both parties and especially to our friends in TORN

[quote name='Cataduanes' timestamp='1307944826' post='2730429']Congratz guys....and where has Shilo got to?[/quote][s]He was purged[/s] He decided to take a break this term due to RL burdens. And thanks to everybody for your congratulations

[center][img]http://golan-shahar.com/dawn/dawnFlag225x113.PNG[/img] [color="#FF8C00"][size="6"][u][b]New DAWN Government[/b][/u][/size][/color][/center] Fellow citizens of Planet Bob, DAWN's democracy has spoken again and I am honoured to present to you the new government. Chief Councilor: Golan 1st Council: Booter, Frannie Golan 1st Chief Councilor The Democratic Alliance of Wise Nations

Very nice to see this I wish you good luck in the next years. Keep up with the awesomeness.

Congratulations to the International and its new government. It definitely looks promising

Congratulations to both alliances. TNG, you got yourself a great ally

[center][img]http://golan-shahar.com/cn/dawn/images/dawnflag442x220.png[/img] [color=orange][u][b][size="7"]DAWN's Second Anniversary[/size][/b][/u][/color] [/center] Fellow Citizens of planet Bob, The Democratic Alliance of Wise Nations celebrates its second anniversary today. Two years ago, three of us decided to realize our vision of an alliance based on true friendship, liberty and equality. A tiny alliance of DAWN's type making it to its second birthday is never obvious. However, we are here and we are proud of what we have achieved. Our second year found us in the war with Gramlins, at the aftermath of our defeat in the Bipolar war. Together with our friends in IRON, we were finally able to eventually make them give up their outrageous demands. Then we had to pay the heavy reps agreed upon at the end of the bipolar war. Such conditions are not a promise to any alliance, let alone an alliance as small as DAWN. However, we were able to finish paying the reparations fast, with the help of friends. While our obvious friends were there to help us, our efforts at the time were supported by friends we did not know, or hardly knew, about until then. This won't be forgotten and we still appreciate the help we got at that time. One of the founding principles of the Democratic Alliance of Wise Nations open democracy. This means that all information is available to all members and they are encouraged to take part in our internal discourse and communications with other alliances. Naturally, some members are more interested in politics than others and serve more in government positions. However, I can proudly say that all members, without exception, took the opportunity to get involved in our community life. In the last year we were able to formalize our long standing special relations with the Grand Lodge of Free Masons in an MDoAP. We value our friendship with the Free Masons a lot and are proud to call them allies. At the same time, we strengthened our relations with our other allies, TORN and IRON, improved communications and, through other means, further solidified our relations with them. We also etablished and advanced friendly relations with quite a few other alliances. With or without a treaty, we see them as friends and are happy to work with them. As always, we are extending a hand of friendship to everybody who is willing to cooperate with us in any way they see fit. As one of DAWN's cofounders, I am happy and proud of our community and how it operates. We are looking ahead for the challenges awaiting us in our third year and hope that it will be as good as the previous two. You are all invited to celebrate with us in our channel, #DAWN. Golan 1st President The Democratic Alliance of Wise Nations

Sad to see quantum go, happy to see freemasonry growing. Good luck to the Lodge and all masons, new and old.

[quote name='chefjoe' timestamp='1303106002' post='2692466'] Happy Passover to all [center][b]Enjoy the Celebration[/b]!![/center] [center][img]http://www.public-domain-photos.com/free-stock-photos-4-big/drinks/bread-and-beer.jpg[/img][/center] [/quote]You are cruel

Just wanted to wish everybody and especially our fellow Jews a happy Passover [img]http://www.boston.com/news/globe/ideas/brainiac/passover-disposable-seder-d.jpg[/img]

IC issues aside, I am happy that you were able to recover the forums.

Congratulations to the ODN and its new government.

Thanks to everybody for your congratulations [quote name='Cataduanes' timestamp='1299109611' post='2650056']Powerless is not a word I would associate with Golan , congratz guys and gals.[/quote]Thanks The president (the position, not the person) is a personal embodiment of the the spirit of DAWN and as such, his/her voice is heard. I also like to think that my past record gives what I say some extra value. Like any other member, I am expected to speak my mind and I try to do this when possible However, as president, I have no executive power and I am bound to follow the policy set by the Council, except for some internal procedural matters. [quote name='Banksy' timestamp='1299111849' post='2650119']xfd someone let ffrog into government.[/quote]I am very proud to have him in our government. [quote name='Zessa' timestamp='1299123070' post='2650592']Are you democratic yet? Also congrats and such.[/quote]We have always been democratic. In our first days, the founders temporarily led the alliance collectively in a triumvirate as there was no way to make meaningful elections in such a tiny alliance.

[quote name='Heya' timestamp='1299105954' post='2649969']How do you determine who the President is?[/quote]The Council and the President are elected (separately) by all members of DAWN.

[center][size="5"][b][img]http://golan-shahar.com/images/images/dawnFlag298x178.png[/img] [color="#FF8C00"]Elections Results and New Government of the Democratic Alliance of Wise Nations[/color][/b][/size][/center] Fellow citizens of planet Bob, I am honoured to present to you the new government of the Democratic Alliance of Wise Nations: President: Golan 1st Chief Councilor: Booter Council: Frannie, shilo Coordinator of Security: amad123 Coordinator of Economics: ffrog For the most of you who are unfamiliar with DAWN's government structure, I will make a short explanation. While the General Assembly is the sovereign body of DAWN, the Council is the day to day policy making body. The Chief Councilor is a member of the Council who is appointed by the Council to serve as the head of the government. The Coordinators serve under the Council to take care of certain areas. The President is largely a powerless figurehead. DAWN is facing external and internal challenges and I am sure that the new government will handle them well. DAWN will continue to work with its friends for our mutual benefit and will help them in all ways possible. We are also offering a hand of friendship to all elements in this world willing to be friends to us and our allies. Golan 1st President The Democratic Alliance of Wise Nations

[quote name='J2theD' timestamp='1299052048' post='2649411'] This is a really stupid question, im sure, but how do I know what coordinates I am moving my moon base without actually placing it? I thought I was going in the right direction, but i was WAY off. Thanks [/quote][url="http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=64843&st=40&p=1806043&#entry1806043"]Here is a detailed explanation on page 3 of this thread[/url]

[quote name='denkimon' timestamp='1298198276' post='2639367']despicable act ODN. you are so classless you fit right in with those GOONs punks.[/quote]This is exactly what I was thinking.

This treaty was very natural, given the kind of relations between the alliances. The Lodge is generally great to work with, but I wish, at this time, to personally thank two great diplomats of GLoF, monkeybum and whatthefunk. Their contribution to the relations between the alliances is unique. They are assets to any alliance and we at DAWN appreciate their work a lot.

Fellow citizens of planet Bob, I am most pleased to announce the following treaty between GLoF and DAWN: [quote][center][img]http://golan-shahar.com/images/images/dawnFlag298x178.png[/img][img]http://golan-shahar.com/images/images/glofflag.png[/img] [color="#FF8C00"][b][u][size="7"]Masons Wake Up At Dawn[/size] [/u] [size="5"]A Mutual Defence and Optional Aggression treaty between The Democratic Alliance of Wise Nations and the Grand Lodge of Freemasons[/size][/b][/color][/center] [b]Preamble:[/b] Close and exceptionally warm relations have long since existed between The Democratic Alliance of Wise Nations and the Grand Lodge of Freemasons. In recognition of the special bonds between the alliances, and in view of our common values and ideals, we hereby formalize this special relationship and announce our mutual commitments. [b]Article I: General[/b] The signatories and their respective members shall treat each other in a friendly and respectful manner in all communication channels. The Signatories shall cooperate for the benefit of both alliances in the areas of diplomacy, trade, tech deals etc. [b]Article II: Communications[/b] The signatories shall keep open communication channels at all times. They shall inform each other in advance of any developments in their foreign affairs and security policies. The signatory alliances shall provide each other any relevant information and take the concerns of the other side into account. The signatories shall hold regular meetings with representatives of both governments to update each other of recent developments. [b]Article III: Mutual Defense[/b] An attack on one signatory alliance is an attack on both. However, shall a signatory come under attack as a result of its own aggression (including direct military operations, espionage, aid to a warring third party and all other deeds which are widely recognized as acts of hostility) or commitments of another treaty, the other signatory is not obliged to come to its aid. If the circumstances justify it, the other signatory, at the discretion of its own government, may still join the attacked party. The signatories shall coordinate the negotiations to end wars they are involved in according to this article and shall not sign separate peace treaties to end such wars. However, the signatories may allow each other to negotiate and reach separate peace. Diplomatic channels will remain open to ensure that all signatories are aware of any potential threats developing to either alliance's safety. In the event either signatory declares war via activation of a clause from another treaty, and therefore requests the other signatory's assistance after coming under attack, the mandatory defense is then considered optional defense. [b]Article IV: Mutual Aggression[/b] Neither alliance is obliged to partake in assistance in offensive wars, all military or monetary support is strictly to be decided by each sovereign alliance, yet both are encouraged to support each other when needed. [b]Article V: Espionage[/b] Neither alliance may directly participate in espionage of any type, regardless of situation and target. If either one of the undersigning alliances conducts espionage on the other signatory, this pact will be revoked immediately following a 24-hour truce. If either alliance bound to this pact conducts espionage on a non-signing alliance, it is grounds for revocation, but such action may or may not be taken by the other signatories leaders. [b]Article VI: Termination[/b] This treaty shall only be terminated if either undersigned alliance chooses to exit this treaty or if Article III is found to be violated by a member alliance. If one of the undersigned chooses to terminate this pact, they must give five(5) days notice before the treaty is officially dissolved in which they remain fully bonded to the provisions contained therein. The Undersigned do agree to respect and adhere to the Articles written above, both in the spirit and letter in which they are written. [b]Signatures:[/b] [b][u]For the Grand Lodge of Freemasons:[/u][/b] [b]Walking Dead[/b] - Grand Master [b]Kuhnini[/b] - Grand Chance [b]iwin90[/b] - Grand Superintendent [b]Alaric[/b] - Grand Knight [b]Timmy09[/b] - Grand Treasurer [b][u]For the Democratic Alliance of Wise Nations:[/u][/b] [b]Golan 1st[/b], President [b]Booter[/b], Chief Councilor [b]amad123[/b], Councilor and Coordinator of Security [b]Frannie[/b], Councilor [/quote]

[quote name='Yankees Empire' timestamp='1297062120' post='2623745']I [i]think[/i] you don't know what you're talking about, but who knows? I'm just a Doomhouse puppet, right?[/quote]Come back when you have something meaningful to say. [quote name='Comrade Craig' timestamp='1297062290' post='2623747']You've bought into a narrative: the poor, rehabilitated Pacifica was walking down the street, whistling happily and minding its own business, only to be set upon by a pack of vicious thugs -- and you're implying that anyone who rejects your narrative is either a dupe ("fell into the trap") or lying. I'd like to believe that I'm not the former, and I know with certainty that I'm not the latter. Setting aside issues of "loyalty" or "friendship" for a moment -- and speaking only for myself -- it is absolutely clear to me that it is in the immediate [i]self-interest[/i] of the International that our close allies prevail in this conflict. Choosing sides was not difficult, and I'm not losing any sleep worrying about the morality of our actions. Hundreds of millions of INT soldiers have fought and died to preserve the glorious workers' alliance, and if it is necessary then a hundred million more will gladly make the ultimate sacrifice in defense of our proletarian revolution. -Craig[/quote]Craig, the narrative you are talking about, which we have already discussed elsewhere is completely irrelevant to the main point I raised and you obviously don't need me to tell you this. The trap I was talking about has nothing to do with it either. It's a common notion in this world that treaties should take precedence over any other consideration. This view was nurtured by the old hegemony to justify the backing of any atrocity. Now it's a widely accepted axiom. I am not suggesting that all people who accept it are generally and necessarily immoral or fools, but the idea that once signing a treaty you give your friends a carte blanche is distorted logic and morality and undermines alliances' sovereignty. Anyway, supporting the attack on the NPO is not the reasoning you (CnG) provided until now for entering this war. If it is, stop hiding behind treaties to justify it. The reason you stated for the attack on the Legion was a chain of treaties. Now, assuming that this is the reason, let's look what happened here: GOONS attacked the NPO. As a result GOONS were attacked by (among others) the Legion. LOST were bound by a treaty (which they at least chose to sign) to come to GOONS help. Other CnG signatories were bound to help LOST. None of these treaties was a secret to anyone. GOONS decided for you whether you would enter this war and you (bound to honour all treaties without question) had no choice. If you see no problem with this, then we have a very different understanding of the terms sovereignty, independence and freedom.

[quote name='Comrade Craig' timestamp='1297058994' post='2623600'] Golan, G&G moved as a single entity. My left leg is not a slave of my right leg. My right arm is not an unwilling participant in the scheming of my left. None of us were pawns, nor were any coerced. We were compelled to react, and so we reacted. Our sovereignty is not reduced by our commitment to the Union. On the contrary, our trust in one another is the ultimate guarantor of our individual liberty. -Craig [/quote]Commitment to the union of CnG is one thing. Blindly following others is another. I respect you enough to believe that you are not trying to fool the readers of this thread, so my sad conclusion is that you fell to the trap (to which many in this world fall) of confusing commitment to friends and loyalty with completely giving up your autonomy as a thinking person and alliance. In this case it's worse, because you are collaborating with alliances and actions of the worst kind this world has seen.

[quote name='OsRavan' timestamp='1297009144' post='2622186']I seem to remember DAWN honoring an oA (I think) to attack CnG with no CB and then justifying it because they were going to roll with their friends.[/quote]You remember wrong. We have never said that rolling with our friends was our main reason to enter the war. [quote]That said, there is also something ironic about people screaming at DH for not entering the war via correct treaty chaining and then turning around and yelling at CnG for.... following their treaty chains correctly. Double Standards much?[/quote]Show me where, in the context of this thread or this war, I said anything about treaty chaining. [quote]Personally, I don't care much about 'morality' BS. Every alliance *always* thinks they are on the moral side. Morality is a subjective term. Arguments over CB are also equally pointless. 99 percent of the time, the debate will split based on sides. At the end of the day, all that matters is if you will stand by your friends (LOST for ODN in this case) and honor your word to them if they turn to you for help. I will tell you what *my* personal moral code is. It is that I will guard my friends backs, even if such a defense sees me destroyed. It is that I wont e-lawyer my way out of an obligation if my friends call on me for help. If you are surprised to see LOST honoring their MDP, you do not know LOST well. If you are surprised to see CnG rolling together, than you do not know CnG well. The time to evaluate the 'morality' of your allies is not when they are in the middle of a war and calling on you for help. I have zero problem with canceling treaties because you decide you are moving in separate directions. Thats why 'eternal' treaties are lame in my book. But I do have a problem with not honoring a legit call for help during war. That seems to be the fundamental difference in our views. To us, our friends come before the often subjective ((and usually lame from an OOC perspective)) 'moral' judgment. And while there is that time to evaluate treaties... that time is NEVER in the heat of battle. You are free to disagree with that assessment. But personally, I wouldnt want a treaty connection with anyone who did not feel the same way.[/quote]Your excuse for a moral code allows others to dictate your foreign policy. The Legion's attack on GOONS was a direct result of GOONS' attack on the NPO. With your incredible "morality", you were led to attack the Legion by a chain of events you had no influence on and without being allowed, at any point, to consider your actions. You know that I like you personally, but if this is how you understand the sovereignty of your alliance, I am really sorry for you and the ODN.

[quote name='Poiven' timestamp='1297007157' post='2622159'] When you join an alliance, if that alliance goes to war, you go to war (unless you're not needed), and you don't desert. If you join an MADP bloc, it's the same thing. We have a say about it in that if, in the long run, we don't like it, we leave, just like you can leave an alliance; but not during a time of war.[/quote]Individual nations and alliances should maintain some level of autonomy. If you back something you disagree with, treaty or not, you are equally responsible. [quote]We pick allies we hope won't be stupid. If they are, we signed a treaty with them, we honor it. It's as simple as that. If we don't like what they did, we drop the treaty; but not after defending them as we promised we would.[/quote]Again, treaties cannot come in place of your own judgment. [quote]MDPs usually don't have a clause saying "except if you do something stupid." ~Poiven[/quote]Our treaties don't have such clauses either. We choose our allies very carefully, hope and believe that they won't put us in situations where we are forced to choose between our own moral compass and our treaties with them. Yet, I have made it clear to our allies that the treaties are not carte blanche. If you choose to use your treaties as an excuse to back something you cannot accept, then you cannot avoid the responsibility that comes with it.

[quote name='Poiven' timestamp='1296998813' post='2622033']Do you know how Complaints and Grievances works? =LOST= has a treaty with GOONS. =LOST= defends GOONS. CnG is an MADP Pact. CnG rolls together. That's how it works.[/quote]In other words, other signatories of CnG were dragged to a war without having a say about it. It's good that they still maintain their sovereignty, I guess. [quote]I would hate to be your ally. There are cancellation periods for a reason; so that you don't just say "we are not able to accept this morally" and drop the treaty as soon as your friends are getting into real trouble, and you want to avoid it. ~Poiven [/quote]So I guess that I will have to get used to the idea of not being your ally. We have already proved that avoiding trouble does not play a part in our decision to join our friends. Treaties as an excuse to backing any atrocity is a shameful way to avoid responsibility. [quote name='Stefano Palmieri' timestamp='1296999560' post='2622044'] Ok, excuse me for being extremely confused by this. But can you explain how ODN/INT, two alliances that have no direct ties to GOONS, are GOONS' vassals? I mean really, did you just pull that straight out of your ass because it makes no sense.[/quote]They are forced to follow GOONS without having a say on the matter. If you still don't understand how, just say and I will try to provide you a detailed explanatation of the process. [quote]Isnt the point of treaties to have your friends fight with you? We are defending our friends in GOONS, via our MDoAP, which in turn activates the MA clause of CnG. Whats the problem with this? Its the way the treaty web works. Also you shouldn't need a treaty to defend your friends, but thats another issue.[/quote]I fully agree with the last part of this paragraph. As for the beginning of it, I don't consider treaties a carte blanche to asshatery and blindly following treaties without questions is practically giving up your independence. [quote]Some of us find the CB acceptable, some don't and some dont care one way or the other. We're defending our friends and honouring our treaty obligations. GOONS are one of the best allies we could ask for. But hey, if you want to leave an ally out to burn because you don't agree with something they did good for you. It just makes me wonder why the hell anyone would want to be allied to you.[/quote]I suggest that you ask our allies. Our loyalty to them has already been tested. I am not talking about some minor disagreement with "something they did", but about being dragged to a war by a treaty you have never signed and for a cause you STRONGLY disagree with. Honouring treaties cannot come instead of your own moral judgment.

[quote name='Lamuella' timestamp='1296985106' post='2621912']one of my favourite things about this war is that people keep coming up with better and better nicknames for us. "The world's worst bullies". I love it.[/quote]It's not the first time I use this term to describe you. One of the few things I respect in GOONS is that, unlike some of your allies, you have never pretended to be anything else. [quote name='wickedj' timestamp='1296987773' post='2621937']So now an alliance, such as LOST, which takes great pride in their treaties should ignore the treaty and tell GOONS to get bent. Ill admit i would but then again im not a fan of GOONS but thats irrelevant. LOST's treaty says they will defend GOONS and so they did debate/arguement/whining over[/quote]Unless you suggest that alliances such as the ODN and the International are GOONS' vassals, then yes, they should not allow GOONS dictate their FA, especially (but not only) if they strongly disagree with GOONS' cause. Your idea of how treaties should work basically allows alliances to drag alliances they have no treaty with to their own wars. But even if they were directly linked to GOONS, this cannot be used as an excuse to justify an unjust war. [quote name='Mandellav' timestamp='1296988414' post='2621944']But WickedJ, Agreeing/Disagreeing with a CB obviously outweighs the binding defense pacts that alliances sign. Right?[/quote]Right. Our direct allies know that they cannot count on our support if they do something we will not be able to accept morally. Also, among other considerations, one of the most important things we look for in our allies is a very slim likelihood of them becoming asshates of the kind GOONS pride themselves of being.