The New Grämlins

[heggo]

[quote name='Fernando12' date='24 May 2010 - 05:06 PM' timestamp='1274738794' post='2310531']
How were you ever let in to NSO?
[/quote]
Probably because we like Penkala, and don't restrain our members from having dissenting opinions. (In fact, we encourage members who disagree with us to coup the government they disagree with out of power.)

Also, as a side note, I'm reasonably certain that the NSO would love to see Gre go on existing and fighting indefinitely, just so that IRON never has to pay terms. Heck, if Gre ever drops below 5 members, I might join them just to continue their fight for that purpose.

Edited May 25, 2010 by heggo

[JimKongIl]

Gramlins, do you realize that there are friends you believe you are fighting for that are making inquiries about joining the fight against you? What does that say about the validity of your cause?

If you want to make a last stand or go out with a bang that is one thing, but at least call it what it is and stop pretending it is for a noble cause. Not even your friends or former allies see it that way, not even members of alliances with declared neutral stances in regards to CN politics. People recognize that demands for unconditional surrender would set a terrible precedent for the game in general.

I know you guys aren't dumb and Ramirus has many OOC qualifications in this area but fatalism is not a quality to be admired especially when its not just decision makers necks on the line. Is this fair to the FH guys that thought they were joining a powerful and stable alliance? You have gone all in with chips of other nations investments and your hand is not as good as you thought it was. The only difference is you can still pull back the chips you have left and work on rebuilding your stack.

Things are approaching a tipping point. History has shown rulers are willing to trash their nations in support of a cause they believe in. Many nations outside of IRON/DAWN see this as a good cause, including myself and now Christian Trojans of province of troy as well as several others waiting for attacks to commence. If you don't want to back off your demands then just agree to disagree and recognize an armistice so IRON/DAWN can get on with paying reps to CnG alliances. This is the best thing you could do for your friends at this point.

I honestly don't expect Ramirus, Matthew_PK, or Ertyy to change their position so this appeal is to the other 28 Gramlins to make your voice heard and stop this bus from driving off the cliff. If you want to go out for a good cause that is fine, but this is not it and it will not be remembered as such.

[supercoolyellow]

[quote name='bakamitai' date='24 May 2010 - 11:54 PM' timestamp='1274763244' post='2311016']
I see unconditional surrender just over the horizon.
[/quote]

I am very much hoping that is what IRON makes Gre do, hopefully Gre will then realize "well this sucks"


[quote name='JimKongIl' date='25 May 2010 - 01:31 AM' timestamp='1274769072' post='2311091']
Gramlins, do you realize that there are friends you believe you are fighting for that are making inquiries about joining the fight against you? What does that say about the validity of your cause?

If you want to make a last stand or go out with a bang that is one thing, but at least call it what it is and stop pretending it is for a noble cause. Not even your friends or former allies see it that way, not even members of alliances with declared neutral stances in regards to CN politics. People recognize that demands for unconditional surrender would set a terrible precedent for the game in general.

I know you guys aren't dumb and Ramirus has many OOC qualifications in this area but fatalism is not a quality to be admired especially when its not just decision makers necks on the line. Is this fair to the FH guys that thought they were joining a powerful and stable alliance? You have gone all in with chips of other nations investments and your hand is not as good as you thought it was. The only difference is you can still pull back the chips you have left and work on rebuilding your stack.

Things are approaching a tipping point. History has shown rulers are willing to trash their nations in support of a cause they believe in. Many nations outside of IRON/DAWN see this as a good cause, including myself and now Christian Trojans of province of troy as well as several others waiting for attacks to commence. If you don't want to back off your demands then just agree to disagree and recognize an armistice so IRON/DAWN can get on with paying reps to CnG alliances. This is the best thing you could do for your friends at this point.

I honestly don't expect Ramirus, Matthew_PK, or Ertyy to change their position so this appeal is to the other 28 Gramlins to make your voice heard and stop this bus from driving off the cliff. If you want to go out for a good cause that is fine, but this is not it and it will not be remembered as such.
[/quote]

I'm just quoting this for emphasis in hopes that Gre members will read it a second time.

[Cataduanes]

[quote name='JimKongIl' date='25 May 2010 - 07:31 AM' timestamp='1274769072' post='2311091']
Gramlins, do you realize that there are friends you believe you are fighting for that are making inquiries about joining the fight against you? What does that say about the validity of your cause?

If you want to make a last stand or go out with a bang that is one thing, but at least call it what it is and stop pretending it is for a noble cause. Not even your friends or former allies see it that way, not even members of alliances with declared neutral stances in regards to CN politics. People recognize that demands for unconditional surrender would set a terrible precedent for the game in general.

I know you guys aren't dumb and Ramirus has many OOC qualifications in this area but fatalism is not a quality to be admired especially when its not just decision makers necks on the line. Is this fair to the FH guys that thought they were joining a powerful and stable alliance? You have gone all in with chips of other nations investments and your hand is not as good as you thought it was. The only difference is you can still pull back the chips you have left and work on rebuilding your stack.

Things are approaching a tipping point. History has shown rulers are willing to trash their nations in support of a cause they believe in. Many nations outside of IRON/DAWN see this as a good cause, including myself and now Christian Trojans of province of troy as well as several others waiting for attacks to commence. If you don't want to back off your demands then just agree to disagree and recognize an armistice so IRON/DAWN can get on with paying reps to CnG alliances. This is the best thing you could do for your friends at this point.

I honestly don't expect Ramirus, Matthew_PK, or Ertyy to change their position so this appeal is to the other 28 Gramlins to make your voice heard and stop this bus from driving off the cliff. If you want to go out for a good cause that is fine, but this is not it and it will not be remembered as such.
[/quote]
This is an excellent post and i can only hope Gre members take note of this. In addition to any of the [b]Filipino Heroes[/b] reading this thread do not allow your leaders to march you to oblivion in an unjust cause. You have shown your bravery despite being led into this conflict on flawed pretences, but now is the time to question the judgement of your leaders!
[center][b][i]Habang may buhay, may pag-asa[/i].[/b][/center]

Edited May 25, 2010 by Cataduanes

[bigwoody]

[quote name='supercoolyellow' date='25 May 2010 - 02:05 AM' timestamp='1274771140' post='2311106']
I am very much hoping that is what IRON makes Gre do, hopefully Gre will then realize "well this sucks"
[/quote]
No, no, a thousand times no. IRON and DAWN are better than Gre and will act it.

[Lord Rune]

Out of interest, how many members of Gremlins were originally members of FH?

edit: good spelling is fun to do.

Edited May 25, 2010 by Lord Rune

[Cataduanes]

[quote name='Lord Rune' date='25 May 2010 - 05:18 PM' timestamp='1274804280' post='2311335']
Out of interest, how many members of Gremlins were originally members of FH?

edit: good spelling is fun to do.
[/quote]
Off the top of my head, 8.

[King Chill I]

[quote name='bigwoody' date='25 May 2010 - 11:43 AM' timestamp='1274802206' post='2311317']
IRON and DAWN are better than Gre and will act it.
[/quote]

Yes my brothers, the idea of unconditional surrender is a moral evil that undermines the fabric of PB, corrupts our children, and makes our wimminz infertile. Anyone advocating or demanding it is a soulless monster spawned by the devil himself and sent amongst us to enslave our minds one precedent setting surrender at a time.
No decent man would tolerate such blasphemy and heinous behavior from staining the soil upon which we live on. All righteous men should take up arms (or keyboards) and crush, PZI and disband all [suspected and potential] followers of this most evil of thoughts.

Oh brothers come join ye the Church of Bigwoody, the merciful, the unstained, the defender of the oppressed and enemy of all PB's evils. Let him show you the true path and keep you from siding with those that oppress the helpless and bring unwarranted harm to the innocent.








Join now and get a complimentary coupon for our weekly all you can eat BS* buffet.

*prepared with our super secret hypocrisy based marinade.

Edited May 25, 2010 by King Chill I

[Hiro Nakara]

What has this thread achieved so far? Has it achieved peace? Or has it achieved anything that will change the stance of the Gremlins? Because I don't think it has. So what is the objective of this thread? to make people aware of the situation? Which I agree, it has done a brilliant job of doing that. But that does not have the desired effect that you wish for, which is peace from Gremlins! yet people have managed to argue in a circular fasion for what 173 pages now, I still do not see the Gremlins buckling under the amazing power of this thread. I'm just sitting thinking, wondering the point in carrying on the same arguements, rehashed posts over and over again, it has achieved absolutley nothing, yes it may have gained you a few members, but they will scurry off when the drama has finished. I for one hope Gremlins does not crumble, just like I hope IRON/DAWN do not crumble, CN would be a duller place without either of you. You have provided the peanut gallery and awesome marathon of, he said/she said circular arguements I saulte you o/

Inb4 the rage monsters.

...I guess I will awnser this before it is used as a rebuttal.......If the thread has been so successful then why has Gremlins not surrendered?

PR points mean PRIZES?

[Booter]

[quote name='Hiro Nakara' date='25 May 2010 - 11:48 AM' timestamp='1274806076' post='2311355']
What has this thread achieved so far? Has it achieved peace? Or has it achieved anything that will change the stance of the Gremlins? Because I don't think it has. So what is the objective of this thread? to make people aware of the situation? Which I agree, it has done a brilliant job of doing that. But that does not have the desired effect that you wish for, which is peace from Gremlins! yet people have managed to argue in a circular fasion for what 173 pages now, I still do not see the Gremlins buckling under the amazing power of this thread. I'm just sitting thinking, wondering the point in carrying on the same arguements, rehashed posts over and over again, it has achieved absolutley nothing, yes it may have gained you a few members, but they will scurry off when the drama has finished. I for one hope Gremlins does not crumble, just like I hope IRON/DAWN do not crumble, CN would be a duller place without either of you. You have provided the peanut gallery and awesome marathon of, he said/she said circular arguements I saulte you o/

Inb4 the rage monsters.

...I guess I will awnser this before it is used as a rebuttal.......If the thread has been so successful then why has Gremlins not surrendered?

PR points mean PRIZES?
[/quote]

This thread is nothing more than a source of entertainment to most of us. I personally enjoy seeing people comment on the situation that has no ties to either side and try to give their input like they know what is happening.

[Grimm Reaper]

[quote name='King Chill I' date='25 May 2010 - 12:41 PM' timestamp='1274805663' post='2311352']
Yes my brothers, the idea of unconditional surrender is a moral evil that undermines the fabric of PB, corrupts our children, and makes our wimminz infertile. Anyone advocating or demanding it is a soulless monster spawned by the devil himself and sent amongst us to enslave our minds one precedent setting surrender at a time.
No decent man would tolerate such blasphemy and heinous behavior from staining the soil upon which we live on. All righteous men should take up arms (or keyboards) and crush, PZI and disband all [suspected and potential] followers of this most evil of thoughts.

Oh brothers come join ye the Church of Bigwoody, the merciful, the unstained, the defender of the oppressed and enemy of all PB's evils. Let him show you the true path and keep you from siding with those that oppress the helpless and bring unwarranted harm to the innocent.








Join now and get a complimentary coupon for our weekly all you can eat BS* buffet.

*prepared with our super secret hypocrisy based marinade.
[/quote]

I don't think I understand what you're saying. Perhaps you shouldn't be so subtle, Mr. Orwell, lest I miss your allegory.

It would also help if you were at all right about this war. White peace is on the table for their leadership to take. Unless you consider white peace unreasonable terms for a defeated alliance, this is not unreasonable.

Individual terms are also reasonable; that is, surrender, and you're free. That's it.

But repeat a lie enough and it becomes truth, I suppose.

[King Chill I]

[quote name='Grimm Reaper' date='25 May 2010 - 01:08 PM' timestamp='1274807310' post='2311367']
I don't think I understand what you're saying. Perhaps you shouldn't be so subtle, Mr. Orwell, lest I miss your allegory.

It would also help if you were at all right about this war. White peace is on the table for their leadership to take. Unless you consider white peace unreasonable terms for a defeated alliance, this is not unreasonable.

Individual terms are also reasonable; that is, surrender, and you're free. That's it.

But repeat a lie enough and it becomes truth, I suppose.
[/quote]

Never said anything about the terms you offer them. As far as im concerned you can ask for unconditional surrender, PZI them or demand disbandment. I see all of em as valid tools (if you can actually enforce).

[Haflinger]

[quote name='Hiro Nakara' date='25 May 2010 - 12:48 PM' timestamp='1274806076' post='2311355']
What has this thread achieved so far? Has it achieved peace?
[/quote]
Yes, indeed. It has achieved peace for JimKongIl.

[Penkala]

[quote name='The AUT' date='24 May 2010 - 10:39 PM' timestamp='1274755179' post='2310852']
I find it kinda funny.

Now when it drops to below [i]15[/i] members, now that will be hilarious.
[/quote]

Not sure why everyone is assuming there will be a constant rate of decline. I'm pretty sure it'll begin to level off as only the people who truly believe in what Gremlins is doing remain. But honestly, that may still be enough to hold IRON at war...

[quote]But repeat a lie enough and it becomes truth, I suppose.[/quote]

Works just fine for IRON members.

[quote]True believers indeed.

http://www.cybernati...4512&Extended=1 [/quote]

I think you missed my point.

Edited May 25, 2010 by Penkala

[Grimm Reaper]

[quote name='Penkala' date='25 May 2010 - 01:52 PM' timestamp='1274809939' post='2311394']
Not sure why everyone is assuming there will be a constant rate of decline. I'm pretty sure it'll begin to level off as only the people who truly believe in what Gremlins is doing remain. But honestly, that may still be enough to hold IRON at war...
[/quote]

True believers indeed.

http://www.cybernations.net/search_wars.asp?search=144512&Extended=1

[lanceman1972]

To the FH nations;

[b]Minsan di sapat na mahal mo ang isang tao, at alam mo na mahalaga ka para sa ka niya, kc bago ang lahat.... dapat alam mo ang pinagkaiba ng MAHAL sa MAHALAGA LANG![/b]

Now you know how I really feel.

[Bob Janova]

I'm wondering about why they're not engaging Jim or CT: is it cowardice, or is it a ruse to convince the rest of IRON to come out of PM and then get attacked? If IRON could grow normally in war mode while continuing to be nominally in a state of war and therefore avoid paying reps, that would give them a huge leg up in rebuilding.

[flak attack]

[quote name='Bob Janova' date='25 May 2010 - 03:07 PM' timestamp='1274814455' post='2311465']
I'm wondering about why they're not engaging Jim or CT: is it cowardice, or is it a ruse to convince the rest of IRON to come out of PM and then get attacked? If IRON could grow normally in war mode while continuing to be nominally in a state of war and therefore avoid paying reps, that would give them a huge leg up in rebuilding.
[/quote]
I believe both of them came out of peace today and it would be to Gre's advantage to try and cut the number of nukes they take, since each nuke pulls them closer down to IRON's level where they will probably get staggered and pulled down even further.

[hilowe]

Actually, JimKongIl has been out of PM for a couple days at least. Didn't realize it until Haf congratulated him on his "impeccably clean war screen".

http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=83465&view=findpost&p=2309859

[Haflinger]

[quote name='hilowe' date='25 May 2010 - 04:13 PM' timestamp='1274818400' post='2311536']
Actually, JimKongIl has been out of PM for a couple days at least. Didn't realize it until Haf congratulated him on his "impeccably clean war screen".

http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=83465&view=findpost&p=2309859
[/quote]
Yep. I posted that right after I noticed it, so he might have come out earlier - but I have no evidence either way.

[quote name='Bob Janova' date='25 May 2010 - 03:07 PM' timestamp='1274814455' post='2311465']
I'm wondering about why they're not engaging Jim or CT: is it cowardice, or is it a ruse to convince the rest of IRON to come out of PM and then get attacked? If IRON could grow normally in war mode while continuing to be nominally in a state of war and therefore avoid paying reps, that would give them a huge leg up in rebuilding.
[/quote]
It's not either. Well maybe cowardice. But look at it this way: if they attack nations like those two (14.5K tech and 15K tech), they're going to absorb some pretty massive nukes, which will allow IRON to penetrate their NS shield.

Right now, the only thing keeping Grämlins alive is their superior ANS. If they lose that, they've got nothing.

So yes, attacking those two would be irrational. Of course they could always just accept white peace and not get killed. But that would make too much sense.

[Haflinger]

[quote name='flak attack' date='25 May 2010 - 03:30 PM' timestamp='1274815798' post='2311487']
I believe both of them came out of peace today and it would be to Gre's advantage to try and cut the number of nukes they take, since each nuke pulls them closer down to IRON's level where they will probably get staggered and pulled down even further.
[/quote]
Neither of them have any wars at all. They're just operating in war mode like normal nations in an alliance.

[MCRABT]

[quote name='Penkala' date='25 May 2010 - 03:10 AM' timestamp='1274753421' post='2310797']
I'm not sure who I'd prefer attain that victory. Our best bet here is mutual disbandment.
[/quote]

If ignorance is bliss then you truly are in heaven.

[quote name='King Chill I' date='25 May 2010 - 05:41 PM' timestamp='1274805663' post='2311352']
Yes my brothers, the idea of unconditional surrender is a moral evil that undermines the fabric of PB, corrupts our children, and makes our wimminz infertile. Anyone advocating or demanding it is a soulless monster spawned by the devil himself and sent amongst us to enslave our minds one precedent setting surrender at a time.
No decent man would tolerate such blasphemy and heinous behavior from staining the soil upon which we live on. All righteous men should take up arms (or keyboards) and crush, PZI and disband all [suspected and potential] followers of this most evil of thoughts.

Oh brothers come join ye the Church of Bigwoody, the merciful, the unstained, the defender of the oppressed and enemy of all PB's evils. Let him show you the true path and keep you from siding with those that oppress the helpless and bring unwarranted harm to the innocent.








Join now and get a complimentary coupon for our weekly all you can eat BS* buffet.

*prepared with our super secret hypocrisy based marinade.
[/quote]

This sounds like a noble cause where do I sign up?

[Razgriz90]

[quote name='flak attack' date='25 May 2010 - 03:30 PM' timestamp='1274815798' post='2311487']
I believe both of them came out of peace today and it would be to Gre's advantage to try and cut the number of nukes they take, since each nuke pulls them closer down to IRON's level where they will probably get staggered and pulled down even further.
[/quote]
JimKong has been in war mode for over a week and CT has been in war mode since he joined the IRON AA.

[bigwoody]

[quote name='Bob Janova' date='25 May 2010 - 02:07 PM' timestamp='1274814455' post='2311465']
I'm wondering about why they're not engaging Jim or CT: is it cowardice, or is it a ruse to convince the rest of IRON to come out of PM and then get attacked? If IRON could grow normally in war mode while continuing to be nominally in a state of war and therefore avoid paying reps, that would give them a huge leg up in rebuilding.
[/quote]
Cowardice is what I have to imagine, they know one round of war with some seriously large nations and they'll have 6+ nations caught in the IRON mid-range swarm...then it is game over.

[quote name='MCRABT' date='25 May 2010 - 03:49 PM' timestamp='1274820526' post='2311574']
This sounds like a noble cause where do I sign up?
[/quote]
The Church of Bigwoody is open to all ye heathens!

After all, IRON gave bad terms in the past, so they should be hated forever. Sure Gre is doing it now (or at least trying), but they fought on the Karma side so it's cool yo.

[PumpkinFunk]

[quote name='King Chill I' date='25 May 2010 - 12:16 PM' timestamp='1274807789' post='2311372']
Never said anything about the terms you offer them. As far as im concerned you can ask for unconditional surrender, PZI them or demand disbandment. I see all of em as valid tools (if you can actually enforce).
[/quote]

King Chill, did you just time warp from 2 years ago? Those aren't valid tools anymore because people in this game won't let them happen, especially the last two. In case you forget, NPO was killed in the Karma War for displaying those kinds of tactics.