The New Grämlins

[ojiras ajeridas]

WOW... this thread becomes better and better.

We have an alliance demanding something nobody knows what it could be. We only know that each speculation made over here so far is wrong. So, in other words, IRON should do something nobody actually knows what it actually is, and before that isn't done, they won't get explained what they actually have to do. And after that they have complied that mission to do the unknown, they will expect another unknown. Actually, I wonder if they are explained afterwards what they have to do or if they are just re-attacked for not fulfilling the not explained things...

That alliance sends exactly one person over here to talk to us about these things, of course he doesn't explain anything, as that wouldn't be funny. Actually he isn't able to explain anything as his opinion doesn't count anything within the alliance.

But of course, it is us to be just too stupid not to understand this whole thing. Of course, not everyone is provided with an IQ like Ramirus is. Maybe it's about time that himself almighty showes up over here to bring some light in our dark brains.....

What reguards MHA... you deserved better than this. Don't let your alliance take in that downwards spiral Grämlins has volountarily choosen to enter...

[scutterbug]

[quote name='Ojiras Ajeridas' date='15 April 2010 - 11:04 AM' timestamp='1271325875' post='2261182']
WOW... this thread becomes better and better.

We have an alliance demanding something nobody knows what it could be. We only know that each speculation made over here so far is wrong. So, in other words, IRON should do something nobody actually knows what it actually is, and before that isn't done, they won't get explained what they actually have to do. And after that they have complied that mission to do the unknown, they will expect another unknown. Actually, I wonder if they are explained afterwards what they have to do or if they are just re-attacked for not fulfilling the not explained things...

That alliance sends exactly one person over here to talk to us about these things, of course he doesn't explain anything, as that wouldn't be funny. Actually he isn't able to explain anything as his opinion doesn't count anything within the alliance.

But of course, it is us to be just too stupid not to understand this whole thing. Of course, not everyone is provided with an IQ like Ramirus is. Maybe it's about time that himself almighty showes up over here to bring some light in our dark brains.....

What reguards MHA... you deserved better than this. Don't let your alliance take in that downwards spiral Grämlins has volountarily choosen to enter...
[/quote]

Ramirus believes he is above everybody so won't actually listen or care to acknowledge anybodies complaints. Im trying in our embassy and its like arguing with a brick wall.

Personally the accords are dead, Ramirus has crapped all over them with this behaviour.

[Lackistan]

[quote name='scutterbug' date='15 April 2010 - 12:21 PM' timestamp='1271330487' post='2261212']
Ramirus believes he is above everybody so won't actually listen or care to acknowledge anybodies complaints. Im trying in our embassy and its like arguing with a brick wall.

Personally the accords are dead, Ramirus has crapped all over them with this behaviour.
[/quote]

The thing about Ramirus is, he doesn't actually [i]like [/i]Gramlins. Actually, he hates them quite a bit. He just hates all other alliances [i]more[/i].

And if you think I am joking, that is near to a quote from him as I can remember.

[Cataduanes]

[quote name='scutterbug' date='15 April 2010 - 12:21 PM' timestamp='1271330487' post='2261212']
Ramirus believes he is above everybody so won't actually listen or care to acknowledge anybodies complaints. Im trying in our embassy and its like arguing with a brick wall.

Personally the accords are dead, Ramirus has crapped all over them with this behaviour.
[/quote]
If this is truly the case then that is a pretty damming inditement

[Dochartaigh]

[quote name='Matthew PK' date='15 April 2010 - 02:43 AM' timestamp='1271317371' post='2261103']
I have, in fact, been saying that people are speculating and wrong; and both are true.
[/quote]

sorry, but this is just lulzy. it is one thing to state we are speculating but an entirely different matter to state we are wrong. how can we be wrong when there is no explanation? even the wildest speculation has the chance to be true. thus, your continued stance on how everyone who is speculating about what Gremlins wants is wrong, well that is just plain ridiculous. you have no proof we are wrong and thus, cannot make any claim to that whatsoever.

see it is quite simple really. once your alliance gets their collective head out of their collective $@! and actually give a government approved explanation of what they want, people will continue to speculate. now, this does not mean that those people are right but at the same time it does not mean they are wrong either. but one absolute does come from all of this. gRAMlins is losing any and all respect from just about everyone.

[Dochartaigh]

[quote name='Lackistan' date='15 April 2010 - 06:28 AM' timestamp='1271330878' post='2261215']
The thing about Ramirus is, he doesn't actually [i]like [/i]Gramlins. Actually, he hates them quite a bit. He just hates all other alliances [i]more[/i].

And if you think I am joking, that is near to a quote from him as I can remember.
[/quote]

actually from my time there, that is pretty much the vibe i got from him. Ram pretty much hates everyone to a certain extent but was able to tolerate Gremlins more than others for whatever reasons. though it seems that the honeymoon period is over and Ram must hate Gremlins more than anyone else. how else do you explain his actions?

[Lonely]

Has anyone else noticed that nobody in Gramlins’ top 35 is even engaged?

[Cataduanes]

[quote name='Dochartaigh' date='15 April 2010 - 12:35 PM' timestamp='1271331282' post='2261223']
how else do you explain his actions?
[/quote]
Indeed, unless it is born of sheer incompetence

[The Big Bad]

[quote name='nutkase' date='15 April 2010 - 04:18 AM' timestamp='1271319481' post='2261132']
Are you really advocating we should string up a ally?

If your little brother did something wrong, you sort it out, slap him on the wrist and go on your way. You don't throw him to the wolfs do you.

Also we have made a decision, just because you don't like it will not make us choose another option more in favour with your taste.
[/quote]

Your ally has made it very clear they would string you up if you were in the wrong. You can find that quote many times in this thread. MHA can do as they wish. They just have be ok with the price that will come with that choice.

[bigwoody]

Something to keep in mind:

I think a lot of alliances are trying to play both sides of the fence here. That is, implicitly support Ramlins out of spite for IRON by not doing anything, and preventing others from doing anything. But vocally, you disparage their actions.

I imagine this is out of a hope that later, when Ramlins are called to answer for their actions here, you can have your hands washed of them, able to claim you were always against them. Just keep in mind that words are cheap, and very many here are saying one thing while doing another. This means you, MHA, even though you're not the only ones.

Edited April 15, 2010 by bigwoody

[Sandwich Controversy]

[quote name='Lonely' date='15 April 2010 - 07:44 AM' timestamp='1271331835' post='2261228']
Has anyone else noticed that nobody in Gramlins’ top 35 is even engaged?
[/quote]
No. Nobody has noticed this.

[Baden-Württemberg]

[quote name='scutterbug' date='15 April 2010 - 01:21 PM' timestamp='1271330487' post='2261212']
Ramirus believes he is above everybody so won't actually listen or care to acknowledge anybodies complaints. Im trying in our embassy and its like arguing with a brick wall.

Personally the accords are dead, Ramirus has crapped all over them with this behaviour.
[/quote]

He'll receive the bills. I wouldn't be too worried.

[Zangmonkey]

[quote name='Cataduanes' date='15 April 2010 - 04:29 AM' timestamp='1271330971' post='2261217']
If this is truly the case then that is a pretty damming inditement
[/quote]
Good thing it isn't true.

[Gizmo]

[quote name='Matthew PK' date='15 April 2010 - 09:24 AM' timestamp='1271348661' post='2261417']
Good thing it isn't true.
[/quote]


Come to our forum and find out for yourself.

[Crymson]

[quote name='scutterbug' date='15 April 2010 - 05:21 AM' timestamp='1271330487' post='2261212']
Ramirus believes he is above everybody so won't actually listen or care to acknowledge anybodies complaints. Im trying in our embassy and its like arguing with a brick wall.

Personally the accords are dead, Ramirus has crapped all over them with this behaviour.
[/quote]

Then put your money where your mouths are and cancel the treaty. I'm sure it can be done with mutual consent. What are you waiting for.


[quote name='nutkase' date='15 April 2010 - 02:18 AM' timestamp='1271319481' post='2261132']
Are you really advocating we should string up a ally?

If your little brother did something wrong, you sort it out, slap him on the wrist and go on your way. You don't throw him to the wolfs do you.

Also we have made a decision, just because you don't like it will not make us choose another option more in favour with your taste.
[/quote]

This is as ineffective an analogy as I've seen in awhile. You all know full well that Ramirus doesn't care what you think, and you know that his behavior will not be changing. The sad truth is that MHA is simply incapable of making a significant decision---i.e., one that entails consequences and change---on its own.

I'd be happy to be proven wrong, but I don't think that'll happen.

Edited April 15, 2010 by Crymson

[bigwoody]

[quote name='Matthew PK' date='15 April 2010 - 11:24 AM' timestamp='1271348661' post='2261417']
Good thing it isn't true.
[/quote]
Your record on such claims is quite poor lately, much like how you're doing in this mini-war.

[quote]Top 7 Day Smallest Alliance Gains

1) -1,892,716 Strength Change - Invicta

[b]2) -474,968 Strength Change - The Grämlins[/b]

3) -286,456 Strength Change - The Gentlemens Club

4) -221,366 Strength Change - Independent Republic Of Orange Nations

5) -171,948 Strength Change - The Eagle Nebula[/quote]
(Invicta is undergoing a name change, so Ramlins have the top spot, worry not!)

Edited April 15, 2010 by bigwoody

[Baden-Württemberg]

[quote name='Matthew PK' date='15 April 2010 - 06:24 PM' timestamp='1271348661' post='2261417']
Good thing it isn't true.
[/quote]

So you are accusing two MHA Members of lying? After all they are your closest allies...
Someone got blinded by Ram-propaganda. Take a break and drink a cup of honesty, that might get you back to reality.

And if Ramirus is in the right, then he can come in this thread and explain his actions. I wonder why he doesn't do it. I mean, Grämlins have a long and outstanding history of being very honest on the OWF, and it has always been very appreciated.

[Thrash]

[quote name='bigwoody' date='15 April 2010 - 12:34 PM' timestamp='1271349232' post='2261430']
(Invicta is undergoing a name change, so Ramlins have the top spot, worry not!)
[/quote]

Shhh, it's nice to be #1!

[scutterbug]

[quote name='Matthew PK' date='15 April 2010 - 05:24 PM' timestamp='1271348661' post='2261417']
Good thing it isn't true.
[/quote]

So the lies keep coming from Matthew PK. You're making this thread golden!

[Volker von Alzey]

[quote name='Ojiras Ajeridas' date='15 April 2010 - 10:04 AM' timestamp='1271325875' post='2261182']
WOW... this thread becomes better and better.

We have an alliance demanding something nobody knows what it could be. We only know that each speculation made over here so far is wrong. So, in other words, IRON should do something nobody actually knows what it actually is, and before that isn't done, they won't get explained what they actually have to do. And after that they have complied that mission to do the unknown, they will expect another unknown. Actually, I wonder if they are explained afterwards what they have to do or if they are just re-attacked for not fulfilling the not explained things...

[...]
[/quote]

Stay tuned, as The Grämlins vs. Standard Economic Theory continues...

[url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Information_asymmetry"]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Information_asymmetry[/url]
[url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Signaling_games"]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Signaling_games[/url]

[Topside the Hun]

So far I can see from this thread that Gramlin's are trying to change some of the game fundamentals. If I understand what they have done by their actions so far it is:

1) It is okay to send and receive aid to nations in an alliance at war , this is represented by their continued aid into and out of Gramlin's to other alliances.

2) It is okay for nations to leave an alliance at war and join another alliance not at war, with the intention of coming back to your original alliance after the war is finished.

3) If you think you have a significant advantage it is okay to make outrageous demands of those you are at war with because, meh, you're not really interested in negotiating peace at this point in time anyways.

Given that Gramlin's continues to do tech deals while at war I suppose it is only a matter of time before IRON starts doing tech deals too. I suppose it would be okay if aid was sent to IRON under the banner of "Tech Deal". One could send them $3mil in aid and wait for tech to be returned and if it never was one could say it wasn't a very good "Tech Deal".

I don't like what Gramlin's are doing for many reasons, I just hope their continued precedent setting comes back to haunt them, may they reap the benefits of what they sow.

[Dochartaigh]

[quote name='Topside the Hun' date='15 April 2010 - 01:23 PM' timestamp='1271355812' post='2261542']
So far I can see from this thread that Gramlin's are trying to change some of the game fundamentals. If I understand what they have done by their actions so far it is:

1) It is okay to send and receive aid to nations in an alliance at war , this is represented by their continued aid into and out of Gramlin's to other alliances.

2) It is okay for nations to leave an alliance at war and join another alliance not at war, with the intention of coming back to your original alliance after the war is finished.

3) If you think you have a significant advantage it is okay to make outrageous demands of those you are at war with because, meh, you're not really interested in negotiating peace at this point in time anyways.

Given that Gramlin's continues to do tech deals while at war I suppose it is only a matter of time before IRON starts doing tech deals too. I suppose it would be okay if aid was sent to IRON under the banner of "Tech Deal". One could send them $3mil in aid and wait for tech to be returned and if it never was one could say it wasn't a very good "Tech Deal".

I don't like what Gramlin's are doing for many reasons, I just hope their continued precedent setting comes back to haunt them, may they reap the benefits of what they sow.
[/quote]

1. this has been done before. typically the winning side is the one capable of doing this. if the losing side does, then the alliance not at war that is sending aid is in trouble. this is not entirely a new thing.

2) this is also not entirely new. it was shown by how many nations joined PC prior to them hitting Polaris. it was also done throughout other wars. iirc a small alliance basically disbanded to join a larger alliance for the duration of the war, then reformed afterwords. can't honestly remember the two alliances involved though.

3) this also has been done many times. NPO has done this, CnG have done this. Polaris, and many others.


so, basically, Gre did not invent any of the above. what Gre has invented is the idea of unconditional surrender which involves no set surrender terms to actually negotiate. instead you accept the terms without ever knowing what they are and hand over the entire sovereignty of your alliance into your enemies hands. this is something that no one can claim even NPO ever did or attempted.

[hilowe]

[quote name='Lonely' date='15 April 2010 - 06:44 AM' timestamp='1271331835' post='2261228']
Has anyone else noticed that nobody in Gramlins’ top 35 is even engaged?
[/quote]

Yes, and it's because Gre pretty well owns the top spot, outnumbering IRON and DAWN there.

Get outside of that area of NS, and IRON and DAWN greatly outnumber Gre.

[Sephiroth]

I think almost no Gremlins even read OWF, most of them seem to completely ignore the forum and not care, seems most would rather just follow Ramirus.

[The Reccesion]

[quote name='hilowe' date='15 April 2010 - 03:27 PM' timestamp='1271359616' post='2261582']
Yes, and it's because Gre pretty well owns the top spot, outnumbering IRON and DAWN there.

Get outside of that area of NS, and IRON and DAWN greatly outnumber Gre.
[/quote]
Thus allowing you guys to win the war, if they play it out long enough. Unless Ram doesn't care about the lower and middle tier of nations in Gre and he keeps fighting. Those 3M packages will run out very quickly. Considering the amount of nations DAWN and IRON have.