Ashoka the Great Posted March 10, 2010 Report Share Posted March 10, 2010 A long debate leading to nothing. Precisely what I had expected after perusing the first two pages. Everyone just declare war or stop the bickering, please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otherworld Posted March 10, 2010 Report Share Posted March 10, 2010 [quote]Speaking of surrender terms, isn't caffiene supposed to stay out of the government? [/quote] Caf isn't gov. [quote]Out of curiosity, when this war kicks off you are you sure you won't be violating your recent surrender terms? [/quote] Our terms stop us from re-entering the current conflic, not to avoid war until the current conflict ends. If we were to declare it would be a completely new conflict. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mamazlilmistake Posted March 10, 2010 Report Share Posted March 10, 2010 [quote name='Caffine1' date='10 March 2010 - 04:38 AM' timestamp='1268196244' post='2220545'] Nobody was ever trying to hide anything. Anybody can look up the wiki edit histories. Try reading the OP. [/quote] [quote name='AirMe' date='10 March 2010 - 04:51 AM' timestamp='1268196983' post='2220565'] I personally do not raid but I do believe in raiding in an extremely controlled environment for training and activity purposes. Echelon didn't try to pull one over on you, this is PC exploiting another situation to your advantage. Just like you did with California. The only reason you get away with the crap that you do is because of your friends. Sadly, I think some maybe right when they say some alliances are turning into the new Hegemony. The one thing that bothered me about WUT and the Toilet Seat is how there was no accountability. That is the same thing I see going on here every time you guys fail to use common sense. [/quote] I personally was not there during the California raid, but when the ordeal was explained to me by PC when I joined, the collective conscious about the event was that it was indeed a very poor choice. The new hegemony???? HA, it was 3 raids for less then a full cycle. Asking for 250mil is absolute rubbish. 200mil was right about 200mil more then PC received in reps for the entirety of its war last month. My fellow PC members, who partook in the raid, did ample research and decided the target was safe to hit. When Echelon contacted PC, those members were told and ceased attacks. It was not a malicious act, which you are clearly trying to argue. It was a mistaken raid to which i have no quarrel with insinuation that PC is some what at fault. We most certainly could have handled the situation better. But to accuse us of being the new hegemony or the forming of what will be? Be better then that. It was a mistake... Too look less like the crazy old man of the court blithering nothingness, accuse us of "the same old PC." That would hold more ground because we realize that we have a very poor reputation for our raiding habits. And, it behooves us to try to move past that and recreate our image. We do not wish to be the bullies, however we raid and will continue to do so. This makes our moving past our stereotype difficult. This incidence however, the primary fault is not ours. As such, claims that it was an attack upon a protectorate of an alliance we do not like, is simply ignorant! Had it not been said by a member of the purple sphere, i would have taken it serious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merrie Melodies Posted March 10, 2010 Report Share Posted March 10, 2010 [quote name='Otherworld' date='10 March 2010 - 05:14 AM' timestamp='1268198361' post='2220589'] Caf isn't gov. Our terms stop us from re-entering the current conflic, not to avoid war until the current conflict ends. If we were to declare it would be a completely new conflict. [/quote] Cool, hope to see you guys soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LegendoftheSkies Posted March 10, 2010 Report Share Posted March 10, 2010 Third Unjust War here we come Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Czar Aleksander Posted March 10, 2010 Report Share Posted March 10, 2010 [quote name='Otherworld' date='09 March 2010 - 09:14 PM' timestamp='1268198361' post='2220589'] Caf isn't gov. [/quote] Funny. For not being part of the gov. he seems to be doing quite a lot of the talking for this little incident. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voytek Posted March 10, 2010 Report Share Posted March 10, 2010 [img]http://img408.imageshack.us/img408/3949/832d08f793e50c0268449f2.gif[/img] Or at least quit crying about it, geez. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arcturus Jefferson Posted March 10, 2010 Report Share Posted March 10, 2010 [quote name='Newhotness' date='10 March 2010 - 12:07 AM' timestamp='1268197979' post='2220584'] And as for doing this because Echelon isnt prepared to take us on militarily atm. Echelon decided to let Caffine do gov work again, even though peace terms said he couldnt, because the alliances who issued those terms were militarily occupied at the time and couldnt do anything about it. hypocrite much? [/quote] Strangely, those two things are unrelated. If you are concerned about enforcing surrender terms, take it up with Echelon ("do something about it" in language you may understand). That doesn't change that you'd almost definitely be shelling out reps if Echelon was in a position militarily and politically to kick your $@!. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashoka the Great Posted March 10, 2010 Report Share Posted March 10, 2010 [quote name='Otherworld' date='10 March 2010 - 12:14 AM' timestamp='1268198361' post='2220589']If we were to declare it would be a completely new conflict.[/quote] Please just do this and put the rest of us out of our misery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mamazlilmistake Posted March 10, 2010 Report Share Posted March 10, 2010 [quote name='Arcturus Jefferson' date='10 March 2010 - 05:31 AM' timestamp='1268199390' post='2220618'] Strangely, those two things are unrelated. If you are concerned about enforcing surrender terms, take it up with Echelon ("do something about it" in language you may understand). That doesn't change that you'd almost definitely be shelling out reps if Echelon was in a position militarily and politically to kick your $@!. [/quote] IF Echelon was to be in a position to kick our $@!, might they also be in a position to better maintain their protectorates Wikia. The plane and simple fact is, if Echelon was ran more thoroughly, we would not be in this predicament in the first place. Again, i can not speak for PC government... But if someone was to raid for example Super Robot Pirate Ninjas, which... coincidentally... I raided while in FoB before signing an MDoAP with PC... We were not friends at the times... In fact, the wikia clearly stated the leaders of the alliance were members of PC. We thought to ourselves, how can you lead an alliance while not in said alliance. As such, we talked to the members of SRPN and they agreed to MERGE into FoB. Not just did we raid them, but then we had them switch AA to FoB. Do you know what PC did??? They contacted us, explained the circle jerk of an operation they were running... And after all was said and done, the members who wanted to join us stayed, the few nations who didn't follow remained and PC went over to help fix up what is now SRPN. No reps, a few threats, some allocation of membership and a cordial agreement that mistake was made on both parts. This story might hold less water as I am now in PC, but it is exactly what happened. So as someone said, "If the tides were turned." Now you know what PC did. They handled business like gentlemen. However, had PC come to me and asked for 200kk reps. I would have thought they were bat !@#$ crazy. Though I doubt they would have appealed to the masses of the owf while they clearly had dropped the ball so severely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newhotness Posted March 10, 2010 Report Share Posted March 10, 2010 (edited) [quote name='Arcturus Jefferson' date='10 March 2010 - 12:31 AM' timestamp='1268199390' post='2220618'] That doesn't change that you'd almost definitely be shelling out reps if Echelon was in a position militarily and politically to kick your $@!. [/quote] doubtful. we'd be "shelling out reps" if we feel we did something wrong. which we didnt, and dont. so their position of power makes no difference here. and the 2 are related if you were to get the point i was making, which it seems you didnt Edited March 10, 2010 by Newhotness Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shodemofi-NPO Posted March 10, 2010 Report Share Posted March 10, 2010 Likely someone has said this already, but like hell am I going to read 16 pages of this. The argument about the wikis is completely ridiculous. At no point has it ever been the responsibility of an alliance to maintain their wiki. Wikis are for convenience, nothing more. They are not legally binding and the idea that they somehow are is absurd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zombie Glaucon Posted March 10, 2010 Report Share Posted March 10, 2010 PC, why bother having rules? Don't hide your shame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merrie Melodies Posted March 10, 2010 Report Share Posted March 10, 2010 [quote name='Zombie Glaucon' date='10 March 2010 - 06:10 AM' timestamp='1268201753' post='2220659'] PC, why bother having rules? Don't hide your shame. [/quote] What? Are you back for chapter two? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zombie Glaucon Posted March 10, 2010 Report Share Posted March 10, 2010 [quote name='Merrie Melodies' date='10 March 2010 - 12:17 AM' timestamp='1268202176' post='2220668'] What? Are you back for chapter two? [/quote] I hate to see you guys pretend, no need to wrap yourselves up in artificial rules. Tech raiders are cowards. Run free, cowards! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mushi Posted March 10, 2010 Report Share Posted March 10, 2010 To all those guys you think we would only check wiki? My guys checked bios, and they saw nothing, and they checked Wiki aswell. A former SBA member also confirmed that SBA had disbanded. So some PC guys though to themselves a bunch of inactives, and decided to raid them. As you can see that it was small raid by some members (only 3 nations were attacked by 4-5 guys) who had done their research. You can also see from caffine's log dump in this thread, when Citizenkane (MoFA) heard about it, he offered to pay reps, but as we dug deeper into the then we saw a bunch of edits on the wiki being made to saw that SBA was not disbanded, and we saw that echelon trying to extort us and refuse to pay reps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mushi Posted March 10, 2010 Report Share Posted March 10, 2010 [quote name='Zombie Glaucon' date='10 March 2010 - 04:25 PM' timestamp='1268202644' post='2220677'] I hate to see you guys pretend, no need to wrap yourselves up in artificial rules. Tech raiders are cowards. Run free, cowards! [/quote] hey want to police the world again? This time we can finish the job off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raasaa Posted March 10, 2010 Report Share Posted March 10, 2010 [quote name='AirMe' date='09 March 2010 - 10:49 PM' timestamp='1268193309' post='2220478'] Translation: We raided SBA for the 3rd time because we know Echelon doesn't have the political capital to back it up. Especially when our allies turn a blind eye to our lack of intelligence. [/quote] [quote name='Ashoka the Great' date='10 March 2010 - 12:12 AM' timestamp='1268198281' post='2220588'] Everyone just declare war or stop the bickering, please. [/quote] These two posts pretty much sum up my thoughts on this mess. Looking forward to more action and less talking o/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlmightyGrub Posted March 10, 2010 Report Share Posted March 10, 2010 [quote name='mushi' date='10 March 2010 - 04:30 PM' timestamp='1268202941' post='2220685'] hey want to police the world again? This time we can finish the job off. [/quote] Hey, want to actually show a little class and do the right thing this time? No, I thought not. Your alliance is scum, and you know it and seem to be proud of it. Good for you, you know where I am if you want me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zombie Glaucon Posted March 10, 2010 Report Share Posted March 10, 2010 [quote name='mushi' date='10 March 2010 - 12:30 AM' timestamp='1268202941' post='2220685'] hey want to police the world again? This time we can finish the job off. [/quote] For being the "bad-boys" of CN (you know, y'all and the babies over at \m/), you guys sure are thin-skinned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newhotness Posted March 10, 2010 Report Share Posted March 10, 2010 [quote name='Zombie Glaucon' date='10 March 2010 - 01:42 AM' timestamp='1268203650' post='2220697'] For being the "bad-boys" of CN (you know, y'all and the babies over at \m/), you guys sure are thin-skinned. [/quote] so you get called out and have no response, so what do you do? you tell us that we are thin-skinned. just because you get called out doesnt mean we dont have thick skin. the 2 really have nothing to do with each other Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyber Nationz Posted March 10, 2010 Report Share Posted March 10, 2010 I say give them 50 mill, it is not that much. what, 4 Nations send out 15 mill each. Seriously Bob cannot afford another War, especially over a tech raid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vhalen Posted March 10, 2010 Report Share Posted March 10, 2010 [quote name='Lord Brendan' date='09 March 2010 - 07:32 PM' timestamp='1268181484' post='2219993'] It's debatable whether their surrenders terms allow them to declare war on Poison Clan. Even if they are technically allowed, they're obviously in no position to do so. Public call outs like this can be useful sometimes. I do not believe this one of those times. [/quote] If they're not allowed by surrender terms, then the public call out makes much more sense. Furthermore, one could argue that the alliances they've surrendered to might be obligated to enforce the protectorate, if they've tied Echelon's hands in the matter. [quote name='890765' date='09 March 2010 - 07:41 PM' timestamp='1268181981' post='2220018'] We weren't an alliance that had been officially/unofficially disbanded for 6 months. If someone raided us, there would be issues. [/quote] Not if they edited the wiki first, right? I mean, it could've said ANYTHING before that. [quote name='Thomas Jackson' date='09 March 2010 - 08:15 PM' timestamp='1268184057' post='2220120'] And thus began the great Wiki-Vandalizing Craze of 2010. [/quote] Yup, I called that one. [quote name='LegendoftheSkies' date='09 March 2010 - 08:17 PM' timestamp='1268184149' post='2220122'] I bet if someone really did that, it wouldn't take PC several months to fix it. [/quote] As long as you can get a screenshot before it's fixed, that's all that matters, isn't it? [quote name='Mamazlilmistake' date='09 March 2010 - 11:17 PM' timestamp='1268194996' post='2220517'] If i recall you do not support raiding of any kind. I am quite sure you once told me it is barbaric. As such, is your opinion not bias on this topic??? Echelon could have just as well not tried to pull one over on us, and your little kitty cat would still be all sandy. [/quote] You seem to be pro-raiding, so your opinion's also biased, right? Let's throw out all non-neutral opinions in every thread ever. (I invite you to visit the new forums, with 99.9% less text. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Jackson Posted March 10, 2010 Report Share Posted March 10, 2010 [quote name='AlmightyGrub' date='10 March 2010 - 01:35 AM' timestamp='1268203258' post='2220692'] Hey, want to actually show a little class and do the right thing this time? No, I thought not. Your alliance is scum, and you know it and seem to be proud of it. Good for you, you know where I am if you want me. [/quote] I like how you want us to show class, then go and call us scum. Two wrongs don't make a right, nor does it set a good example. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zombie Glaucon Posted March 10, 2010 Report Share Posted March 10, 2010 [quote name='Newhotness' date='10 March 2010 - 12:46 AM' timestamp='1268203878' post='2220702'] so you get called out and have no response, so what do you do? you tell us that we are thin-skinned. just because you get called out doesnt mean we dont have thick skin. the 2 really have nothing to do with each other [/quote] The last time I entered a thread like this MM got pretty emo (I hear the war should have made all Polar members be nice to \m/ members). Look at the responses this time. We've actually done something about it. You guys opted out. You want back in, come on over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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