The Future of Neo-Hegemony ?

[SiCkO]

[quote name='Denial' date='09 March 2010 - 01:29 PM' timestamp='1268170495' post='2219632']
You know, claiming that you're not part of this 'new-hegemony' group, but rather all about purple unity, and then proceding to explain that you have joined the last two global wars because of significant treaty links to that group (alliances that aren't purple), is fairly amusing.

[/quote]

generally, we dont have many relations outside of purple (look to your MDoAPs if you must, most our PEACE member alliances, those that aren't are well known and like by our membership) and the reality is that even if we didnt have an MDoAP with IRON or NPO we would still have been dragged in through Valhalla/other purple members. Granted, we had no intention of bailing on IRON (who honestly are great friends and allies) but we still are not a member of the "Neo - Hegemony". The Legion has never been a member of WUT and all it's other incarnations and had been more focused on it's own sphere for quite some time (GRAPE and PEACE).


As for total isolation, I find it somewhat pointless, creating another GUARD bloc would just group a whole bunch of targets for CnG closer together, regardless of our inaction. A bloc like that would achieve little and most likely create bigger problems in the future.

[bigwoody]

I don't think any radio silence would be true isolationism. For example, if TORN went into radio silence, we would still talk with alliances not hostile to us. Between treaty partners and friends without paperwork, I'm sure we wouldn't be too lonely.

(Yeah, the idea is growing on me)

[Lord Brendan]

[quote name='bigwoody' date='09 March 2010 - 08:11 PM' timestamp='1268183817' post='2220108']
I don't think any radio silence would be true isolationism. For example, if TORN went into radio silence, we would still talk with alliances not hostile to us. Between treaty partners and friends without paperwork, I'm sure we wouldn't be too lonely.

(Yeah, the idea is growing on me)
[/quote]

Does TORN have any active posters other than yourself and that other guy?

My point is, you were practically on radio silence before this war began anyway (or it seemed that way). Did it help you at all?

Edited March 10, 2010 by Lord Brendan

[bigwoody]

[quote name='Lord Brendan' date='09 March 2010 - 07:13 PM' timestamp='1268183957' post='2220115']
Does TORN have any active posters other than yourself?
[/quote]
Is that sarcasm? (Hell, did you even read, I dunno, this page of this thread?)

I guess you pay little enough attention that you wouldn't miss us anyways, then.

Edited March 10, 2010 by bigwoody

[Lord Brendan]

Ok, bad example.

What I was trying to convey is that you had a low forum presence going into this war, and it didn't really help you much. As I understand it Alterego brought up the idea of isolating yourselves as a way of avoiding a repeat of this war. I just don't see how it's an effective means to that end, especially since its basically what most of you were doing before the war anyway.

[bigwoody]

[quote name='Lord Brendan' date='09 March 2010 - 07:50 PM' timestamp='1268186160' post='2220206']
Ok, bad example.

What I was trying to convey is that you had a low forum presence going into this war, and it didn't really help you much. As I understand it Alterego brought up the idea of isolating yourselves as a way of avoiding a repeat of this war. I just don't see how it's an effective means to that end, especially since its basically what most of you were doing before the war anyway.
[/quote]
I see upsides and downsides to it, but I think you're missing what they were getting at anyways.

IDK, we'll see if I'm convinced that taking everything to backchannels and maybe secret treaties is a good idea. I'm warming to it.

[rrkilledme]

Gentleman, Elyat has just ended this thread.

[quote name='Elyat' date='09 March 2010 - 03:30 PM' timestamp='1268177753' post='2219827']
It's amazing how few people grasp this very simple concept. Power is now so evenly distributed, comparatively, that any complex comparison with historical periods is impossible. This is uncharted territory.
[/quote]

[Denial]

[quote name='Puppet Master' date='10 March 2010 - 07:25 AM' timestamp='1268172071' post='2219680']
If what you say is true than you would have no problem with Neo become isolationists after this war. It would not affect your alliance in anyway and you would simply go about your day. However from the posts of others from your bloc we can see this is untrue, and it would affect their fun.
[/quote]
The departure of the 'neo hegemony' from this forum would be like a dream come true for me. By all means, abandon the forums. There is no doubt that political debate - if you can call what goes on here such a thing - is a source of fun, but what I am saying is that it is by no means the only source for alliances in Complaints & Grievances and Super Friends. I imagine any mass exodus of neo hegemony posters from this venue of discussion would only result in a quiet few weeks before they all came flooding back, after realising their brilliant plot to force C&G and SF to turn on one another failed as spectacularly as LiquidMercury's planning for this ongoing conflict.

[quote name='Elyat' date='10 March 2010 - 09:00 AM' timestamp='1268177753' post='2219827']
It's amazing how few people grasp this very simple concept. Power is now so evenly distributed, comparatively, that any complex comparison with historical periods is impossible. This is uncharted territory.
[/quote]
Indeed. A short memory seems to be the condition most prevalent within the Cyberverse.

[quote name='SiCkO' date='10 March 2010 - 10:33 AM' timestamp='1268183343' post='2220091']
generally, we dont have many relations outside of purple (look to your MDoAPs if you must, most our PEACE member alliances, those that aren't are well known and like by our membership) and the reality is that even if we didnt have an MDoAP with IRON or NPO we would still have been dragged in through Valhalla/other purple members. Granted, we had no intention of bailing on IRON (who honestly are great friends and allies) but we still are not a member of the "Neo - Hegemony". The Legion has never been a member of WUT and all it's other incarnations and had been more focused on it's own sphere for quite some time (GRAPE and PEACE).
[/quote]
So, in other words "we're not part of the neo hegemony, we just defend them at every opportunity".

[KagetheSecond]

[quote name='Denial' date='09 March 2010 - 07:37 PM' timestamp='1268192543' post='2220467']


So, in other words "we're not part of the neo hegemony, we just defend them at every opportunity".
[/quote]

For some of us, yeah. This is very true. We have treaties with our friends, and some of our friends have stupid friends that drag us into conflicts that we have nothing to do with. We're going to defend our friends. That's the long and the short of it.

Edited March 10, 2010 by KagetheSecond

[Denial]

[quote name='KagetheSecond' date='10 March 2010 - 01:27 PM' timestamp='1268193774' post='2220493']
For some of us, yeah. This is very true. We have treaties with our friends, and some of our friends have stupid friends that drag us into conflicts that we have nothing to do with. We're going to defend our friends. That's the long and the short of it.
[/quote]
This certainly explains the widespread use of optional defence and aggression clauses to enter the war against the 'Super Grievances' side

[Desert Ratz]

[quote name='Alterego' date='09 March 2010 - 10:41 AM' timestamp='1268160427' post='2219478']
LOL LoSS, nuff said.
[/quote]

Oh common buddy cant take a little criticism? You sounded like your typical 8 year old on the playground. Man up and deal with it, everything in this game goes in cycles and one day you will see yourselves back on top and laughing back at the world. You being a poor sport jus shows the character you really have. Have fun yea?

[Imperator Hades]

I will have to disagree with the OP, respectfully of course. Blocs, MDP groups or whatever you want to call them come and go. The very fact that we have "two poles" in the current CN political world is proof of that. If you remember post GWIII there was one "pole" and that was WuT. We couldnt even call the enemies of WuT a "pole" as they were too unorganised and beat down to resist WuT. These modern "poles" are for the most part made up of alliances who were still pretty small players in the political game back then. Heck..GGA for all intents and purposes chased Sparta out of Green!!. I will have to agree with Elyat this is uncharted territory simply due to the fact that there is no dominant power like NPO was between GWII and UJW.

As for this,
[quote]If you think SF and CnG are going to go to war with each other in the next big one, you should talk to CnG and SF members and leaders. They adore each other a lot, and have a quite a bit of unity. I don't think sitting around and just hoping for SF and CnG to fight each other is a good plan. Wishful thinking makes for bad prophecy[/quote]

Im not advocating there will be a war, far from it, but I will say that Pacifica and Polaris said the same thing before. Sh*t happens and friendships change, infact if we have learned anything in the last 4 years its that Murphy's law dominates CN.

Edited March 10, 2010 by Imperator Hades

[Ashoka the Great]

/me adjusts his bifocals

How exactly am I supposed to read this?

[supercoolyellow]

[quote name='Imperator Hades' date='09 March 2010 - 10:23 PM' timestamp='1268195333' post='2220527']
I will have to disagree with the OP, respectfully of course.
[/quote]

Wait... we do that in CN ?

[quote]Im not advocating there will be a war, far from it, but I will say that Pacifica and Polaris said the same thing before. Sh*t happens and friendships change, infact if we have learned anything in the last 4 years its that Murphy's law dominates CN. [/quote]

That is actually a very good point indeed!

Edited March 10, 2010 by supercoolyellow

[SiCkO]

[quote name='Denial' date='09 March 2010 - 08:10 PM' timestamp='1268194546' post='2220511']
This certainly explains the widespread use of optional defence and aggression clauses to enter the war against the 'Super Grievances' side
[/quote]

which neither OMFG or Legion did, and If i recall members on your side of the treaty web jumped in using oAs and ODPs as well. The point is moot however, since every alliance acts in it's best interest and may not necessarily agree with their "allies" as much as share a common enemy.

[Feanor Noldorin]

Isolation is way to obvious. Instead of trying to stay out of the political game tie yourself to the CnG/SF power spheres. Make sure that they keep you nice and safe while you recover from the war aswell as lending them your power in case they need it. If enough join a certain side they could make sure the world remains at peace for a year to year and half. During that time you could easily recoup your losses from this war and if people get bored (which will happen) perhaps one of those two power spheres will get knocked out.

[Qaianna]

[quote name='Feanor Noldorin' date='10 March 2010 - 12:01 AM' timestamp='1268201233' post='2220648']
Isolation is way to obvious. Instead of trying to stay out of the political game tie yourself to the CnG/SF power spheres. Make sure that they keep you nice and safe while you recover from the war aswell as lending them your power in case they need it. If enough join a certain side they could make sure the world remains at peace for a year to year and half. During that time you could easily recoup your losses from this war and if people get bored (which will happen) perhaps one of those two power spheres will get knocked out.
[/quote]
As mentioned by myself (and the poster after me), all the talk of isolationism being a bad choice assumes that the former One Vision and similar members are actually allowed in the treehouse at this point. Judging by some of the members, they seem quite happy with being the 'cool clique' and shunning anyone who's not in their circle.

I think overall this is why two poles tend to emerge in the long run. It's easy to find someone to dislike, and if you have enough likeminded people, there's one pole--even if you claim it's made up of different blocs, it's still one pole, until something happens.

[Alterego]

[quote name='Lord Brendan' date='10 March 2010 - 01:50 AM' timestamp='1268186160' post='2220206']
Ok, bad example.

What I was trying to convey is that you had a low forum presence going into this war, and it didn't really help you much. As I understand it Alterego brought up the idea of isolating yourselves as a way of avoiding a repeat of this war. I just don't see how it's an effective means to that end, especially since its basically what most of you were doing before the war anyway.
[/quote]
Well without conflicting treaties the situation where Polar said it was cool to hit C&G then flip flop back to MK would be unlikely to happen. Everyone connected with no outside distraction would allow a level of trust that doesnt exist anymore between allies who have conflicting treaties. With no outside contact the only way they could attack the group would be an unwarranted act of aggression. They would probably still do it but the chances of a 3rd successive beatdown would be drastically reduced. We are already potically isolated so it wouldnt be much of a shift to completely remove ourselves from everything else.

[quote name='Feanor Noldorin' date='10 March 2010 - 06:01 AM' timestamp='1268201233' post='2220648']
Isolation is way to obvious. Instead of trying to stay out of the political game tie yourself to the CnG/SF power spheres. Make sure that they keep you nice and safe while you recover from the war aswell as lending them your power
[/quote]
Dont make me sick. Suck up to people for protection? How could anyone do that and not feel utterly pathetic.

Edited March 10, 2010 by Alterego

[Prime minister Johns]

I wonder how long it will take a neo-karma to emerge and take down the neo-hegemony (Whoever that is)?

Setting out to become a hegemony is playing with fire in my opinion.

[Voytek]

[quote name='Prime minister Johns' date='10 March 2010 - 06:03 PM' timestamp='1268208539' post='2220770']
I wonder how long it will take a neo-karma to emerge and take down the neo-hegemony (Whoever that is)?

Setting out to become a hegemony is playing with fire in my opinion.
[/quote]

It's just a name that was created for the purposes of this thread, methinks. Don't read so much into it; there are other (and better) ways to look suave and sophisticated than to create boogeymen out of nothing.

Edited March 10, 2010 by Voytek

[Imperator Hades]

[quote]Dont make me sick. Suck up to people for protection? How could anyone do that and not feel utterly pathetic. [/quote]

Well considering that after GWIII, around half of the alliances did it, then im guessing the pathetic option is easier than the honorable option.

[WorkingClassRuler]

Aww MHA, Umbrella, FOK, Sparta, Gre and NSO (?) need to make a bloc - look at us all just floating in the middle there without any pretty circles around us. We could be called the Pound Puppies, or the Raggy Dolls.

[Imperator Hades]

[quote name='Working_Class_Ruler' date='10 March 2010 - 09:28 PM' timestamp='1268215408' post='2220808']
Aww MHA, Umbrella, FOK, Sparta, Gre and NSO (?) need to make a bloc - look at us all just floating in the middle there without any pretty circles around us. We could be called the Pound Puppies, or the Raggy Dolls.
[/quote]

I have heard there is a potential new bloc in the process of being created.

[WorkingClassRuler]

If they call it the Raggy Dolls, I will explode with excitement.

[Alfred von Tirpitz]

[quote name='Imperator%20Hades' date='10 March 2010 - 03:31 PM' timestamp='1268215587' post='2220810']
I have heard there is a potential new bloc in the process of being created.
[/quote]

Do the letters T I N T ring a bell? Of course there was earlier another supposed letter in there, now thats gone, seemingly. New bloc rumors are fun are they not?

As regards the Neo Hegemony or Old Hegemony or Super Grievances, erstwhile Citadel, Old and new BLEU, whatever, everyone is on this planet and in the political arena for their own fun and self interests. War, no war, lots of war, morality, amorality, immorality, everything and nothing. Its all bunkum anyways.