Lincongrad Posted February 22, 2010 Report Share Posted February 22, 2010 [quote name='tamerlane' date='21 February 2010 - 08:20 PM' timestamp='1266812457' post='2196145'] . The ridiculous reps came from agreeing to surrender then not agreeing to surrender and making SPARTA -who should not have posted the thread until they got a final verdict w. sigs- look like fools. This is not surprising for an enemy who obviously had no respect for them and snubbed their noses at every turn. [/quote] Incorrect. Go read up on the various that sprung up from that incident. The last page of the "Legion, MASH, and Quantum Surrender" thread should be enlightening. These reps stem primarily from the fact that we declined white peace and from the OOC attacks in Hyperion's logs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilhelm the Demented Posted February 22, 2010 Report Share Posted February 22, 2010 [quote name='Gunnar Griffin' date='21 February 2010 - 11:28 PM' timestamp='1266812905' post='2196183'] I remember Pezstar. I'm just peeved that if those are their only evidence, why don't they post them here? Is it because the evidence may be weak? [/quote] It was a mis-communication and a mis-interpretation. Mah bad, you guys didn't do a splendid job either. What with the "forgery" libel that was smeared across the world within the first 5 minutes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lonewolfe2015 Posted February 22, 2010 Report Share Posted February 22, 2010 Some of you should go and talk to actual members of Legion and see how they feel. If they thought we were being overly harsh they would have said no, but the logistics to this is very easy. The discourse which happened is standard. They were offered no reps if they left sooner. But the victors are the ones who set the standards, I hope each and every one of you who dislike these reps are just as vocal when other alliances begin coming out with more significant reps than these in the coming days, weeks and or months. If you have serious issues with this, take it into private affairs with us rather than constantly starting a war on here. Many of us have agreed to talk in private if that is what is requested and we'll be more than happy to discuss it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fernando12 Posted February 22, 2010 Report Share Posted February 22, 2010 [quote name='wilhelm the demented' date='21 February 2010 - 10:29 PM' timestamp='1266812974' post='2196190'] It's not very hard, unless their economics team is incompetent. Not to mention, they have until we end the fight with TOOL and IRON to prepare. That'll be a few more weeks or something. [/quote] hmmm... Tool and IRON should impose terms that nullify these terms Sparta put on Legion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Posted February 22, 2010 Report Share Posted February 22, 2010 (edited) OOC attacks on his mother. I see worse everyday, but if hes made it clear YOU DONT TALK ABOUT THAT, then I can definitely understand why this happened. Terms accepted with minimal complaint by Legion, and complaint by everyone else. Why is Legion not complaining? I think they know why it happened, as Lincongrad's post occured, and accept it. Sad others can't. Edited February 22, 2010 by Penlugue Solaris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellis Posted February 22, 2010 Report Share Posted February 22, 2010 (edited) [quote name='Penlugue Solaris' date='22 February 2010 - 04:28 PM' timestamp='1266812899' post='2196181'] I am not clear as to the context here, but most of Athens reps were to NPO. In terms of MK, NPO basically forced alliances to demand reparations. Echelon, and VE had both previously told MK they would not be requesting them, but then magically they appeared when it came time to negotiate, to the distress of MK. Additionally, the majority of the reparations MK paid were to NPO as well. [/quote] And the majority of reps here go to Sparta, although I'll agree that if NPO forced alliances to take reps from MK, that does invalidate it as an example, the context is that Mathew Conrad was complaining that people were saying Sparta took 40k reps, instead of the 20k going to them. Edited February 22, 2010 by Ellis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunnar Griffin Posted February 22, 2010 Report Share Posted February 22, 2010 (edited) [quote name='Hyperion321' date='21 February 2010 - 11:29 PM' timestamp='1266812970' post='2196188'] Feel better? Does that ring a bell now? [i]You were there[/i] after all. I've said it to others and I'll say it here now - [b]You do not screw with me about my mother. ever.[/b] [/quote] I didn't either. But I don't feel sorry for the insults you received [b]because you, or your little posse, came in with a Legion Viceroy tag.[/b] And if you're offended by that; please grow thicker skin. We're not in middle school anymore. BTW, I meant logs regarding the botched peace. Edited February 22, 2010 by Gunnar Griffin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilhelm the Demented Posted February 22, 2010 Report Share Posted February 22, 2010 [quote name='Fernando12' date='21 February 2010 - 11:33 PM' timestamp='1266813182' post='2196210'] hmmm... Tool and IRON should impose terms that nullify these terms Sparta put on Legion. [/quote] They'll have to make us bleed a lot more before that happens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Conrad Posted February 22, 2010 Report Share Posted February 22, 2010 [quote name='Ellis' date='21 February 2010 - 11:24 PM' timestamp='1266812687' post='2196168'] NPO always got blamed for all 14k of Athens reps and all of MK's 82k tech, even though they didn't receive them all. I recall a fair few Spartans doing the accusing, as well. [/quote] I challenge you to find a "fair" number of Spartans making accusations at NPO during Karma. For the most part, we were not vocal whatsoever in throwing blame around in terms of the past. Also, I apologize for not controlling what everyone during that war said. I always thought MK were the puppetmasters? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pezstar Posted February 22, 2010 Report Share Posted February 22, 2010 (edited) [quote name='Penlugue Solaris' date='21 February 2010 - 11:33 PM' timestamp='1266813200' post='2196212'] OOC attacks on his mother. I see worse everyday, but if hes made it clear YOU DONT TALK ABOUT THAT, then I can definitely understand why this happened. [/quote] How do you know it wasn't his IC mother? There's nothing in that log that indicates that it's an OOC discussion. Edit: [quote name='Aurion' date='21 February 2010 - 11:37 PM' timestamp='1266813422' post='2196231']This is a pathetic line of argument, and you should feel ashamed of yourself for using it. [/quote] Yes. You're right. This was a pretty stupid argument. Edited February 22, 2010 by pezstar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyperion321 Posted February 22, 2010 Report Share Posted February 22, 2010 [quote name='Gunnar Griffin' date='22 February 2010 - 04:33 AM' timestamp='1266813231' post='2196214'] I didn't either. But I don't feel sorry for the insults you received [b]because you, or your little posse, came in with a Legion Viceroy tag.[/b] [/quote] So because of a running joke in responce to accusations we were going to disband Legion, you think you have the right to say [i]that[/i]. You disgust me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Posted February 22, 2010 Report Share Posted February 22, 2010 [quote name='pezstar' date='21 February 2010 - 11:34 PM' timestamp='1266813272' post='2196217'] How do you know it wasn't his IC mother? There's nothing in that log that indicates that it's an OOC discussion. [/quote] I'm just going to completely disregard this. Come on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smacky Posted February 22, 2010 Report Share Posted February 22, 2010 [quote name='Jrenster' date='21 February 2010 - 08:19 PM' timestamp='1266812379' post='2196138'] The reps being paid are simply ludicrous. Total, it's about $112 billion (my math may be off). Punishing them this harshly just for trying to be loyal is simply outrageous. [/quote] May be off? LOL, try way off. @ $800,000 per 50 tech (it's actually less then that) the total cost of 40,000 tech is $640,000,000. Hardly a drop in the bucket for a 365 member alliances with a horde of sellers. Congrats Sparta and Umbrella, another one bit the dust. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kulomascovia Posted February 22, 2010 Report Share Posted February 22, 2010 [quote name='lonewolfe2015' date='21 February 2010 - 08:32 PM' timestamp='1266813126' post='2196208'] Some of you should go and talk to actual members of Legion and see how they feel. If they thought we were being overly harsh they would have said no, but the logistics to this is very easy. The discourse which happened is standard. They were offered no reps if they left sooner. [/quote] Just because they felt fine with it does not make the reps justifiable. I could feel great about being EZIed but would that make EZI right? [quote] If you have serious issues with this, take it into private affairs with us rather than constantly starting a war on here. Many of us have agreed to talk in private if that is what is requested and we'll be more than happy to discuss it. [/quote] Can we get you to reverse your decision if we talked to you privately? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pearl Posted February 22, 2010 Report Share Posted February 22, 2010 [quote name='lonewolfe2015' date='21 February 2010 - 09:50 PM' timestamp='1266810630' post='2196014'] We took no tech from them that they cannot pay using their massive amount of tech sellers. If Legion feels they are incapable of performing simple aid falls within their alliance to pay the tech like it were a tech deal and uses their existing tech funds then that is their choice. They have 2 months to send out 40k tech, that takes 160 nations 5 slots to send all at once if it were the case. This is easily something that can be paid by the tech sellers of their alliance where it is in no way a strain on them. We made it explicitly clear if they did not accept white peace that reps would be paid to surrender, they chose when to surrender we waited on them to come back to us after that big fiasco. So the time was irrelevant. [/quote] Oh stop. How dare you use logic in your posts. My name is romance would much rather discuss the issue in terms of percents to incite hate and hysteria into the masses. I see wut he did there. OH NOES, NOT 6.7% OF THE TOTAL!!!! THAT IS .067 TIMES THE TOTAL!!!! .067 TIMES!!!!!!!!!!! MY CARBON STEEL ONLY CAME WITH 2% CARBON CONTENT!! FFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU!!!!!!!!!!! Personally, I think reps should have required 100% alliance participation. Not meeting monthly requirements meant getting rolled again. jk jk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyperion321 Posted February 22, 2010 Report Share Posted February 22, 2010 [quote name='pezstar' date='22 February 2010 - 04:34 AM' timestamp='1266813272' post='2196217'] How do you know it wasn't his IC mother? There's nothing in that log that indicates that it's an OOC discussion. [/quote] you've got to be kidding me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilhelm the Demented Posted February 22, 2010 Report Share Posted February 22, 2010 [quote name='Ellis' date='21 February 2010 - 11:33 PM' timestamp='1266813218' post='2196213'] And the majority of reps here go to Sparta, although I'll agree that if NPO forced alliances to take reps from MK, that does invalidate it as an example, the context is that Mathew Conrad was complaining that people were saying Sparta took 40k reps, instead of the 20k going to them. [/quote] We don't mind haters. We mind ignorant haters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kortal Posted February 22, 2010 Report Share Posted February 22, 2010 (edited) Mod Edit Edited February 22, 2010 by Edward Cullen Inapproriate Content -EC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kulomascovia Posted February 22, 2010 Report Share Posted February 22, 2010 [quote name='Penlugue Solaris' date='21 February 2010 - 08:33 PM' timestamp='1266813200' post='2196212'] Terms accepted with minimal complaint by Legion, and complaint by everyone else. Why is Legion not complaining? I think they know why it happened, as Lincongrad's post occured, and accept it. Sad others can't. [/quote] Hey, just because the Legion accepted the terms doesn't mean the general public has to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lincongrad Posted February 22, 2010 Report Share Posted February 22, 2010 (edited) [quote name='Penlugue Solaris' date='21 February 2010 - 08:33 PM' timestamp='1266813200' post='2196212'] OOC attacks on his mother. I see worse everyday, but if hes made it clear YOU DONT TALK ABOUT THAT, then I can definitely understand why this happened. Terms accepted with minimal complaint by Legion, and complaint by everyone else. Why is Legion not complaining? I think they know why it happened, as Lincongrad's post occured, and accept it. Sad others can't. [/quote] To clarify, I'm still not happy about the rest of the reps. I don't particularly like paying Asgaard, TCI, or Amazon Nation to honor my treaties. And I wish Sparta had a thicker skin, but we tossed away any moral high ground we had with that incident and felt it would be best to try and make amends. I probably would have done the same in Sparta's place. Edited February 22, 2010 by Lincongrad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurion Posted February 22, 2010 Report Share Posted February 22, 2010 [quote name='Jrenster' date='21 February 2010 - 11:19 PM' timestamp='1266812379' post='2196138'] The reps being paid are simply ludicrous. Total, it's about $112 billion (my math may be off). Punishing them this harshly just for trying to be loyal is simply outrageous. [/quote] Your math is off by about a factor of 100. [quote name='pezstar' date='21 February 2010 - 11:34 PM' timestamp='1266813272' post='2196217'] How do you know it wasn't his IC mother? There's nothing in that log that indicates that it's an OOC discussion. [/quote] This is a pathetic line of argument, and you should feel ashamed of yourself for using it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tamerlane Posted February 22, 2010 Report Share Posted February 22, 2010 [quote name='pezstar' date='22 February 2010 - 04:34 AM' timestamp='1266813272' post='2196217'] How do you know it wasn't his IC mother? There's nothing in that log that indicates that it's an OOC discussion. [/quote] Using cutco knives to split that hair? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silentkiller Posted February 22, 2010 Report Share Posted February 22, 2010 [quote name='Matthew Conrad' date='22 February 2010 - 04:34 AM' timestamp='1266813266' post='2196216'] I challenge you to find a "fair" number of Spartans making accusations at NPO during Karma. For the most part, we were not vocal whatsoever in throwing blame around in terms of the past. Also, I apologize for not controlling what everyone during that war said. I always thought MK were the puppetmasters? [/quote] I think GTG would be a good example. Although from what I understand he is no longer a Sparta member. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Conrad Posted February 22, 2010 Report Share Posted February 22, 2010 [quote name='Proko' date='21 February 2010 - 11:30 PM' timestamp='1266813046' post='2196199'] I don't think Pezstar is posting as she is because of her former ties, and it seems she and I are in agreement about the reparations terms. It was no play for wit, just a comparison of Pezstar's opinion to my own, in lieu of our different backgrounds concerning the Legion (she is a former member, whereas I don't think I've ever really spoken to someone in the alliance). [/quote] In that case I've already addressed what Pezstar said. She said she has been anti-Legion and seeing as I stated I only put forth a hypothesis and never claimed to actually follow her opinions over the years about Legion, I said I would take her word for it and corrected myself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilhelm the Demented Posted February 22, 2010 Report Share Posted February 22, 2010 [quote name='kulomascovia' date='21 February 2010 - 11:35 PM' timestamp='1266813328' post='2196222'] Just because they felt fine with it does not make the reps justifiable. I could feel great about being EZIed but would that make EZI right? [/quote] Just because you disagree with them it doesn't make them unjustifiable. Seriously. EZI and light reps are a lot alike. Your point is certainly a valid one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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