Joint Statement

[Jinnai]

[quote name='Il Impero Romano' date='18 February 2010 - 06:19 PM' timestamp='1266538787' post='2190624']
Nowhere have I seen anyone pay reps in this war.[/quote]That same argument was made at the start of surrenders in the Karma war. WP or the lack of reps demanded did not hold in the end for that war.

Edited February 19, 2010 by Jinnai

[itseZe]

[quote name='SpoiL' date='18 February 2010 - 07:50 PM' timestamp='1266540632' post='2190708']
Perhaps you should pay for the damage done in the war you kept going, despite having ended with NpO-\m/. Yes, that sounds right.
[/quote]
This is the TOP-CnG war. You seem to be getting your wars confused.

[SpoiL]

[quote name='itseZe' date='18 February 2010 - 07:52 PM' timestamp='1266540752' post='2190712']
This is the TOP-CnG war. You seem to be getting your wars confused.
[/quote]

I am not.

[Desperado]

[quote name='Voodoo Nova' date='18 February 2010 - 07:42 PM' timestamp='1266540122' post='2190684']
Actually, the only alliance that (as far as I know) have threatened reparations was Mafia.
[/quote]

Yeah, the number and those doing it is kinda surprising. It's more than just Mafia.

Edit: Referring to overall, not the VA situation specifically.

Edited February 19, 2010 by Desperado

[Aeternos Astramora]

[quote name='Lucius Aerilius' date='18 February 2010 - 06:11 PM' timestamp='1266538272' post='2190603']
I got a big kick out of this.

"Ummm... we attacked you for no reason, now we're in a world of trouble... sooooo... white peace?"

Surrender or fight. Your only real options kiddies.
[/quote]
Have you seen the threads of alliances on your side accepting these terms in the last couple of weeks?

Does the cognitive dissonance hurt?

[Lucius Aerilius]

[quote name='mitchh' date='18 February 2010 - 07:22 PM' timestamp='1266538960' post='2190627']
Makes it difficult to surrender when there are no terms, you know?
[/quote]
I'm not gov., but from my view on the C&G side of things, you all will have to ask for terms before they're going to be offered. Frankly, I don't think any of us are quite done taking a healthy share of the revenge. Nothing personal.

I have a feeling the final terms are going to be a far more lenient than what most of us would like to see, but I have a great deal of confidence in our respective govt's, so it is what it is.

[Lord Philip]

tl:dr

So this was decided as a non-runner then?

[Johnny Apocalypse]

So you want to end this war, and you want White Peace.....

Well you know it isn't going to happen right? Here's why.

If we were to agree to a white peace with you, that would absolve you of any wrong doing you have commited by starting this war, and don't deny it, because you have you started an aggressive war because you 'thought' we were going to attack you, and have dressed it up as a pre-emptive strike. White Peace would involve us allowing you to get away with this without an apology or an acceptance that you did bad. If we pre-emptively attacked you, you'd be saying the exact same things we are because we both know that it is wrong. Had you provided solid evidence, that we (the whole of C&G) were going to attack TOP then things would be different, but you have not provided said evidence.

Second, since declaring war on us, you have wrecked a lot of our !@#$, there's no denying that we have been weakened by this war (as have you, but you started this, we don't owe you a god damn thing) and naturally we want our stuff fixed, and we want you to pay for it. If someone were to break something of yours you would want compensation for it, like if someone crashed into your car, you'd want the money to get a new car.

Do you understand yet? It's a very simple concept, but you're ignoring it and trying to spin this into us being the bad guys. So no white peace, we want our stuff back.

And what with TOP's mighty warchests, paying us what we are owed for our broken stuff shouldn't be a problem right?

Edited February 19, 2010 by Johnny Apocalypse

[White Chocolate]

[quote name='martinius the great' date='18 February 2010 - 11:49 AM' timestamp='1266515382' post='2189868']
Definitely, anyone who entered the war through MDPs will get white peace, for they have done nothing but honor their treaties.
[/quote]

I'm glad that you believe as much, as it's better than nothing. However, I also take it you're a fan of the treaty web?

[Ivan Moldavi]

[quote name='Johnny Apocalypse' date='18 February 2010 - 07:56 PM' timestamp='1266540964' post='2190729']
So you want to end this war, and you want White Peace.....

Well you know it isn't going to happen right? Here's why.

If we were to agree to a white peace with you, that would absolve you of any wrong doing you have commited by starting this war, and don't deny it, because you have you started an aggressive war because you 'thought' we were going to attack you, and have dressed it up as a pre-emptive strike. White Peace would involve us allowing you to get away with this without an apology or an acceptance that you did bad. If we pre-emptively attacked you, you'd be saying the exact same things we are because we both know that it is wrong. Had you provided solid evidence, that we (the whole of C&G) were going to attack TOP then things would be different, but you have not provided said evidence.

Second, since declaring war on us, you have wrecked a lot of our !@#$, there's no denying that we have been weakened by this war (as have you, but you started this, we don't owe you a god damn thing) and naturally we want our stuff fixed, and we want you to pay for it. If someone were to break something of yours you would want compensation for it, like if someone crashed into your car, you'd want the money to get a new car.

Do you understand yet? It's a very simple concept, but you're ignoring it and trying to spin this into us being the bad guys. So no white peace, we want our stuff back.

And what with TOP's mighty warchests, paying us what we are owed for our broken stuff shouldn't be a problem right?
[/quote]
There isn't a feasible method for you to regain enough through reps to rebuild the NS that your alliance has lost in this war. Reparations are meant to be punitive towards the losers, not regenerative for the winners necessarily.

[Lucius Aerilius]

[quote name='Aeternos Astramora' date='18 February 2010 - 07:54 PM' timestamp='1266540870' post='2190722']
Have you seen the threads of alliances on your side accepting these terms in the last couple of weeks?

Does the cognitive dissonance hurt?
[/quote]
Again, I'm not gov so I rarely get too deep in the back and forth on the CN forums. And I'm sure there are a quite a few alliance who got brought in in the later waves of treaty activations that don't have the interest in this that C&G and our direct allies do. As with most global conflicts, the last to join will be the first out. But C&G and our close allies are in this until the TOP group fully surrenders. Based on my observations

[White Chocolate]

[quote name='Johnny Apocalypse' date='18 February 2010 - 06:56 PM' timestamp='1266540964' post='2190729']
Second, since declaring war on us, you have wrecked a lot of our !@#$, there's no denying that we have been weakened by this war (as have you, but you started this, we don't owe you a god damn thing) and naturally we want our stuff fixed, and we want you to pay for it. If someone were to break something of yours you would want compensation for it, like if someone crashed into your car, you'd want the money to get a new car.
[/quote]

Good points. Sounds a lot like the arguments against tech raiding that I've made and seen other people make.

[Johnny Apocalypse]

[quote name='Ivan Moldavi' date='19 February 2010 - 01:00 AM' timestamp='1266541239' post='2190741']
There isn't a feasible method for you to regain enough through reps to rebuild the NS that your alliance has lost in this war. Reparations are meant to be punitive towards the losers, not regenerative for the winners necessarily.
[/quote]

We can at least get something back from reparations though right? We won't be the same as we were pre-war but we'll be a bit better off.

[President Sitruk]

wanting reparations is understandable.

[quote name='Lucius Aerilius' date='18 February 2010 - 06:54 PM' timestamp='1266540883' post='2190725']
I'm not gov., but from my view on the C&G side of things, you all will have to ask for terms before they're going to be offered. Frankly, I don't think any of us are quite done taking a healthy share of the revenge. Nothing personal.
[/quote]

revenge is personal. just saying. imho, it's all business.

Edited February 19, 2010 by President Sitruk

[Saber]

[quote name='Voodoo Nova' date='19 February 2010 - 01:42 AM' timestamp='1266540122' post='2190684']
Actually, the only alliance that (as far as I know) have threatened reparations was Mafia. As far as I know, AI, KoTC, IAA & HoG have stated these terms were acceptable for VA. They declined.
[/quote]
This is not true. It has become more and more of a norm to threaten alliances on our side with reparations and harsh terms down the line if they do not quickly surrender. Alliances that have only entered to defend their allies and which would leave the war in a heartbeat if other side genuinely wanted to end this war.

Alliances guilty of such threatening are for example MHA and FOK.

[Voodoo Nova]

[quote name='Desperado' date='18 February 2010 - 07:53 PM' timestamp='1266540813' post='2190718']
Yeah, the number and those doing it is kinda surprising. It's more than just Mafia.
[/quote]

I have yet to see any other alliance at war with VA threaten reparations. Who are the alliances that are threatening VA with reps?

Edited February 19, 2010 by Voodoo Nova

[White Chocolate]

[quote name='savethecheerleader' date='18 February 2010 - 01:27 AM' timestamp='1266478074' post='2189188']
Pretty please? It would do wonders for my environment.
[/quote]



Top marks in my book. I agree 100%.

[Believland]

Good show. Too bad it's been beaten to death by the winning side. What a shame.

[Lucius Aerilius]

[quote name='President Sitruk' date='18 February 2010 - 08:03 PM' timestamp='1266541429' post='2190753']
wanting reparations is understandable.



revenge is personal. just saying. imho, it's all business.
[/quote]
Meh. I hate to keep going back to the whole "You snuck attack us for no reason" thing, but that made it A LOT more personal to our side.

We have good enough nation building programs to easily rebuild after this. The reps are more of a punishment for poor government, poor planning and IMO a lack of morals.

Just sayin.

[Johnny Apocalypse]

[quote name='Believland' date='19 February 2010 - 01:06 AM' timestamp='1266541603' post='2190764']
Good show. Too bad it's been beaten to death by the winning side. What a shame.
[/quote]


If I came round your house and broke all your stuff because I thought you were going to come round my house and do the same. Would you want some compensation and some sense of justice being served, or would you let me get away with it?

[Saber]

[quote name='Voodoo Nova' date='19 February 2010 - 02:05 AM' timestamp='1266541531' post='2190758']
I have yet to see any other alliance at war with VA threaten reparations. Who are the alliances that are threatening VA with reps?
[/quote]
I assumed you meant overall. Overall in the war it is becoming more and more of a trend. Alliances are threatened to accept white peace or else down the line they will be required to pay serious reparations.

It's a very cheap and dirty tactic to try and weaken our side so you can have free hand with those you wish to punish. Our side has vowed not to fall to that level and all alliance fighting on the other side will receive white peace no matter circumstances.

[quote name='Johnny Apocalypse' date='19 February 2010 - 01:56 AM' timestamp='1266540964' post='2190729']
So you want to end this war, and you want White Peace.....

Well you know it isn't going to happen right? Here's why.

If we were to agree to a white peace with you, that would absolve you of any wrong doing you have commited by starting this war, and don't deny it, because you have you started an aggressive war because you 'thought' we were going to attack you, and have dressed it up as a pre-emptive strike. White Peace would involve us allowing you to get away with this without an apology or an acceptance that you did bad. If we pre-emptively attacked you, you'd be saying the exact same things we are because we both know that it is wrong. Had you provided solid evidence, that we (the whole of C&G) were going to attack TOP then things would be different, but you have not provided said evidence.

Second, since declaring war on us, you have wrecked a lot of our !@#$, there's no denying that we have been weakened by this war (as have you, but you started this, we don't owe you a god damn thing) and naturally we want our stuff fixed, and we want you to pay for it. If someone were to break something of yours you would want compensation for it, like if someone crashed into your car, you'd want the money to get a new car.

Do you understand yet? It's a very simple concept, but you're ignoring it and trying to spin this into us being the bad guys. So no white peace, we want our stuff back.

And what with TOP's mighty warchests, paying us what we are owed for our broken stuff shouldn't be a problem right?
[/quote]
Read the thread. It has been said many times that if you find our offer unacceptable (and in your post you do) that you provide us with an alternative offer. We are willing to discuss.

Our statement however stands. We will not demand any kind of reparations or enforce any kind of terms on opposing alliances regardless of circumstances. Offer stands until every alliance peaces out.

Edited February 19, 2010 by Saber

[Saber]

Ooops, double post. Sorry

Edited February 19, 2010 by Saber

[President Sitruk]

[quote name='Lucius Aerilius' date='18 February 2010 - 07:06 PM' timestamp='1266541616' post='2190766']
Meh. I hate to keep going back to the whole "You snuck attack us for no reason" thing, but that made it A LOT more personal to our side.

We have good enough nation building programs to easily rebuild after this. The reps are more of a punishment for poor government, poor planning and IMO a lack of morals.

Just sayin.
[/quote]

just to put it out there i dont really want to start a debate. i understand reps are for punishment, and both sides will be able to rebuild fairly well, infra and tech can always be regained. poor planning, TOP/friends have certainly realized that. lack of morals? perhaps a few characters but you cant judge an entire coalition off of them, whether they're gov. or not. cant say i know of any good examples of a lack of morals but i dont think the attack had anything to do with morality. just personal opinion.

[mitchh]

[quote name='Lucius Aerilius' date='18 February 2010 - 06:54 PM' timestamp='1266540883' post='2190725']
I'm not gov., but from my view on the C&G side of things, you all will have to ask for terms before they're going to be offered.
[/quote]
As has been said, these are ours to you. If you don't like them, you are free to offer up yours or posit that you aren't willing to negotiate at this point.

[Johnny Apocalypse]

[quote name='Saber' date='19 February 2010 - 01:11 AM' timestamp='1266541895' post='2190777']

Read the thread. It has been said many times that if you find our offer unacceptable (and in your post you do) that you provide us with an alternative offer. We are willing to discuss.

Our statement however stands. We will not demand any kind of reparations or enforce any kind of terms on opposing alliances regardless of circumstances. Offer stands until every alliance peaces out.
[/quote]


[OOC]24 pages? I have other stuff to do [/OOC]

I'm in no position to offer alternative terms, but do you understand why we will not accept white peace with you[TOP, IRON and all others who 'pre-emptively' attacked C&G] in particular?

Edited February 19, 2010 by Johnny Apocalypse