Who is taking the biggest beating in this war?

[Jens of the desert]

Always RON

[Prime minister Johns]

Common sense has taken the biggest beating in this war with sanity coming a close second.

[Drai]

[quote name='Nedved I' date='10 February 2010 - 05:30 PM' timestamp='1265851838' post='2173570']
http://www.cybernations.net/stats_alliance_stats_custom.asp?Alliance=Sparta

Either that's us, or TOP's nukes can do days worth of damage.
[/quote]
Did TOP stop nuking a few days ago?

[Fantastico]

[quote name='Prime minister Johns' date='10 February 2010 - 11:45 PM' timestamp='1265867156' post='2174098']
Common sense has taken the biggest beating in this war with sanity coming a close second.
[/quote]

This, too, is where my vote would go.

[Griff]

[quote name='Duncan King' date='11 February 2010 - 03:31 PM' timestamp='1265866285' post='2174032']
In terms of overall political and reputation damage, I'd have to say NpO. I'd wager that a lot of alliances will never take them seriously again.

I'd also have to say NEW. They're refusal to back TPF during the preshow to this war really hurt my belief in them.

Finally, UPN. Sitting out why your allies are being blasted is bad. UPN are ignoring 7 MDP+ treaties:

- MADP with Invicta
- MDoAP with FEAR
- MDoAP with GGA
- MDoAP with the Legion
- MDoAP with UCN
- MDoAP with Quantum
- MDoAP with TFD
*** Along with CDT.

In favor of 1.5 MDPs on the other side:

- MDoAP with NpO
- MDoAP with ODN

I for one am very disappointed, UPN always seemed like solid allies.
[/quote]

How 'bout now?

[Hyperion321]

Well, Drai chan-jacked Legion today. That's probably a bigger blow than most alliances have had to take so far

[Diomede]

RIA
(Hi Vice man!)

[R3nowned]

I would really have to say FoB. They've lost a lot of members and a lot of NS (proportionately speaking) in this war

Still, there are still a few in there that are giving a good fight. Keyword is "few" though.

[Banksy]

[quote name='Duncan King' date='11 February 2010 - 05:31 PM' timestamp='1265866285' post='2174032']
In terms of overall political and reputation damage, I'd have to say NpO. I'd wager that a lot of alliances will never take them seriously again.

I'd also have to say NEW. They're refusal to back TPF during the preshow to this war really hurt my belief in them.

Finally, UPN. Sitting out why your allies are being blasted is bad. UPN are ignoring 7 MDP+ treaties:

- MADP with Invicta
- MDoAP with FEAR
- MDoAP with GGA
- MDoAP with the Legion
- MDoAP with UCN
- MDoAP with Quantum
- MDoAP with TFD
*** Along with CDT.

In favor of 1.5 MDPs on the other side:

- MDoAP with NpO
- [b]MDoAP with ODN [/b]

I for one am very disappointed, UPN always seemed like solid allies.
[/quote]

Emphasis mine.

The UPN's neutrality highlights the idiocy of a pre-emptive strike on an entire bloc. UPN had pretty obvious treaty conflicts because of the attack. UPN are great allies and fiercely loyal.

[Lord Curzon]

[quote name='Overlord Shinnra' date='10 February 2010 - 03:51 PM' timestamp='1265835098' post='2173115']
Percentage wise? The Order of Righteous Nations 1.4 mil - 645k (Over 50% losses) [url="http://www.cybernations.net/stats_alliance_stats_custom.asp?Alliance=The+Resistance&input1=the+order+of+righteous+nations"]Link[/url]

Total NS Wise? Independent Republic of Orange Nations 13.8 Mill - 8.0 Mill (5.8 Million NS Losses) [url="http://www.cybernations.net/stats_alliance_stats_custom.asp?Alliance=the+order+of+righteous+nations&input1=independent+republic+of+orange+nations"]Link[/url]

Politically? New Polar Order (Ghost declaring to piss off both sides is never good) [url="http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=80158"]Link[/url]
[/quote]

Awww thanks for noticing OS! Its closer to 60% now actually. But to be quite honest we're pretty happy about this war and feel that we've gained from it. Thats all I have to say, I'll go play in my irrelevant sub-million NS corner now.

[Drai]

[quote name='Hyperion321' date='10 February 2010 - 11:12 PM' timestamp='1265872350' post='2174249']
Well, Drai chan-jacked Legion today. That's probably a bigger blow than most alliances have had to take so far
[/quote]
Join #legion for all your Legion needs

[Nedved I]

[quote name='Hyperion321' date='11 February 2010 - 01:12 AM' timestamp='1265872350' post='2174249']
Well, Drai chan-jacked Legion today. That's probably a bigger blow than most alliances have had to take so far
[/quote]

No, I think the biggest blow is the realization that Sparta's military would be better suited for a job breaking rocks with other rocks.

[Jgoods45]

Athens has lost 1.5 million NS so far =)

>_>

I would say Invicta.

[Buds The Man]

[quote name='jamesdanaher' date='11 February 2010 - 04:39 AM' timestamp='1265881178' post='2174398']
Emphasis mine.

The UPN's neutrality highlights the idiocy of a pre-emptive strike on an entire bloc. UPN had pretty obvious treaty conflicts because of the attack. UPN are great allies and fiercely loyal.
[/quote]

This is exactly the thinking that has gained ODN the reputation that it has.

[Hyperion321]

[quote name='Nedved I' date='11 February 2010 - 03:23 PM' timestamp='1265901821' post='2174779']
No, I think the biggest blow is the realization that Sparta's military would be better suited for a job breaking rocks with other rocks.
[/quote]
We're good at that, what can I say.

[PhysicsJunky]

[quote name='Buds The Man' date='11 February 2010 - 10:51 AM' timestamp='1265903506' post='2174810']
This is exactly the thinking that has gained ODN the reputation that it has.
[/quote]
ODN was hit to start the TOP-CnG round of this war, where as their other MDP partners joined four days later. It's dishonest looking back and blurring the timeline to slander them for not favoring one side over the other.

Either they should honor the side they have clear MDPs on, which would have implied them joining ODN early on and putting Invicta, that has a MADP with them, on the CnG side early as well. Or they were right to take into account the conflicting treaties their allies had and sit out because many of their friends would likely be joining on the other side later.

If they were right not to join ODN in the beginning, which would have put many of their allies in a tight bind, they're equally justified in sitting back now. It's convenient to say they should suddenly start honoring the side they have more MDPs on now that it favors you, rather than those first four days when it didn't.

If somebody is going to launch a criticism at UPN it's that they shouldn't sign so many treaties that are likely to conflict, and there aren't many alliances than can further that line of discussion without looking like blatant hypocrites or implying the same about an ally of theirs.

Edited February 11, 2010 by PhysicsJunky

[Style #386]

[quote name='Buds The Man' date='11 February 2010 - 10:51 AM' timestamp='1265903506' post='2174810']
This is exactly the thinking that has gained ODN the reputation that it has.
[/quote]
If you want to get technical, UPN was obligated to side with us immediately. I don't see any fault in ODN for being alright with their decision to stay neutral.

[Drai]

[quote name='Nedved I' date='11 February 2010 - 07:23 AM' timestamp='1265901821' post='2174779']
No, I think the biggest blow is the realization that Sparta's military would be better suited for a job breaking rocks with other rocks.
[/quote]
I know causing infra damage might be new for the Legion but you have to realize that you guys really aren't doing anything extraordinary, or even average for that matter. Isn't 80% of your NS from nations below 15k NS? How much damage do you think you're really doing to Sparta as opposed to IRON/TOP?

[Buds The Man]

[quote name='PhysicsJunky' date='11 February 2010 - 12:51 PM' timestamp='1265910719' post='2175086']
ODN was hit to start the TOP-CnG round of this war, where as their other MDP partners joined four days later. It's dishonest looking back and blurring the timeline to slander them for not favoring one side over the other.

Either they should honor the side they have clear MDPs on, which would have implied them joining ODN early on and putting Invicta, that has a MADP with them, on the CnG side early as well. Or they were right to take into account the conflicting treaties their allies had and sit out because many of their friends would likely be joining on the other side later.

If they were right not to join ODN in the beginning, which would have put many of their allies in a tight bind, they're equally justified in sitting back now. It's convenient to say they should suddenly start honoring the side they have more MDPs on now that it favors you, rather than those first four days when it didn't.

If somebody is going to launch a criticism at UPN it's that they shouldn't sign so many treaties that are likely to conflict, and there aren't many alliances than can further that line of discussion without looking like blatant hypocrites or implying the same about an ally of theirs.
[/quote]


[quote name='Style #386' date='11 February 2010 - 12:54 PM' timestamp='1265910896' post='2175091']
If you want to get technical, UPN was obligated to side with us immediately. I don't see any fault in ODN for being alright with their decision to stay neutral.
[/quote]

Wow guess i should have been more clear. I dont believe in sitting on the sidelines and watching multiple friends get punched in the face. Would i have been upset if UPN entered on behalf of ODN honestly probably would i have understood why they did it Yep they have a treaty. My comment had nothing to do with UPN as much as the philosophy behind it. I for one cant see letting my friends get punched in the face like what is happening right now. kinda like that email that goes around How do you know they are a true friend.

You get busted for fighting in the bar
an aquantance tells you how stupid you are for doing something like this
a friend comes and bails you out of jail while chewing your $@! because his wife is pissed that he did so
A Real Friend is sitting next to you in Jail going man what did we do. LOL

The last is what I consider a treaty partner to be.

I dont think im alone in that assumption either. As much as I may not like them \m/ just jumped back in to the meat grinder for PC and Polar is now fighting on both sides due to obligations.

I understand sometimes partners will fall on opposited sides you do your best to honor that friendship by avoiding there front but to ignore all partners and declare neutral while friends are being stomped is poor form IMO.

[PhysicsJunky]

[quote name='Buds The Man' date='11 February 2010 - 01:14 PM' timestamp='1265912087' post='2175133']I understand sometimes partners will fall on opposited sides you do your best to honor that friendship by avoiding there front but to ignore all partners and declare neutral while friends are being stomped is poor form IMO.[/quote]
The inherent problem UPN faced was that following your policy to defend every MDP partner they'd have declared on TORN or TOP (mere guesswork, two of their partners conflict with IRON), which would have placed Invicta who has an MADP with them on that side of the war as well or in violation. So it would resolve the UPN treaty obligation problems but all of a sudden most of Purple is suddenly obligated to attack itself, attack treaty partners attacking UPN, or hopefully find some non-conflicting target on the TOP side.

My point was that instead of attacking UPN it's better to attack the treaty entanglement politics in general, because UPN could have passed the buck and entangled a lot of their allies and nobody would have been better off.

[Rebel Virginia]

[color="#0000FF"]Sorry Physics, but UPN doesn't have to political clout to pull that off. Besides, they aren't they only alliance in this war that has allies on the other side, and considering which side Invicta is on, it should be no surprise as to what UPN is doing.[/color]

[Nedved I]

[quote name='Drai' date='11 February 2010 - 12:14 PM' timestamp='1265912082' post='2175132']
I know causing infra damage might be new for the Legion but you have to realize that you guys really aren't doing anything extraordinary, or even average for that matter. Isn't 80% of your NS from nations below 15k NS? How much damage do you think you're really doing to Sparta as opposed to IRON/TOP?
[/quote]

I think Legion haters are just surprised to see The Legion is actually an effective fighting force. Besides the lower NS is where all the fun is.

[Buds The Man]

[quote name='PhysicsJunky' date='11 February 2010 - 01:34 PM' timestamp='1265913258' post='2175191']
The inherent problem UPN faced was that following your policy to defend every MDP partner they'd have declared on TORN or TOP (mere guesswork, two of their partners conflict with IRON), which would have placed Invicta who has an MADP with them on that side of the war as well or in violation. So it would resolve the UPN treaty obligation problems but all of a sudden most of Purple is suddenly obligated to attack itself, attack treaty partners attacking UPN, or hopefully find some non-conflicting target on the TOP side.

My point was that instead of attacking UPN it's better to attack the treaty entanglement politics in general, because UPN could have passed the buck and entangled a lot of their allies and nobody would have been better off.
[/quote]
I thought i added this to my reply but apperently edited it out by mistake. My original comment was more towards that philosophy not towards UPN. UPN is currently in a tight spot one that is not enviable by any means and the treaty entanglement is difficult. I still stand by me reply though sometimes you have to make a choice as trying to honor everything in the end could cost you everything. ODN has faced this road and appears to be on recovery from it only time will tell if they have the fortitude to stick it out.

[PhysicsJunky]

[quote name='Rebel Virginia' date='11 February 2010 - 01:43 PM' timestamp='1265913808' post='2175215']
[color="#0000FF"]Sorry Physics, but UPN doesn't have to political clout to pull that off. Besides, they aren't they only alliance in this war that has allies on the other side, and considering which side Invicta is on, it should be no surprise as to what UPN is doing.[/color]
[/quote]
I agree with your general point that a lot of others are in similar positions and have managed to make a choice. If you're arguing that by not attacking when ODN was attacked they conceded the decision of where they'd enter this war to their MADP partner I'd agree with you. I'm not suggesting nobody attack UPN for their decision not to enter the war, merely that the attack be consistent.

[Drai]

[quote name='Nedved I' date='11 February 2010 - 10:46 AM' timestamp='1265914006' post='2175220']
I think Legion haters are just surprised to see The Legion is actually an effective fighting force. Besides the lower NS is where all the fun is.
[/quote]
Effective by comparison to the expectations, not remarkable by any means though.

And really? Lower NS is where all the fun is? Are you saying that in hopes that you'll have some footing in this conversation?