\m/ announcement; Regarding Current Events

[Ian Dox]

Too long, did not read.

[Bordiga]

Blah blah blah, Polar is just as evil as us, with the exception that the destruction of our alliance will mean a blow to the acceptance of tech-raiding.

I can see where you're going with this.

[zoskia]

To the rest of CN, know this; \m/ will not back down from our principles just because one in a higher seat of power thinks they can dictate to us what is right, what is wrong, and what codes and laws we must abide by. Though we may lose much by way of lives, members, and infrastructure, we will never lose our strength in conviction.[/center]

... I know your convictions and I don't think they will lose strength... And I know that tech raiding weaker alliances is OK for you.

Anyway, why does \m/ need to make such a grumpy speak on this subject... aren't we already doing what you wanted? Is \m/ not happy right now?

[Mergerberger II]

Goby,

While I could use this post and take up my time to criticize your poor grammar and tenuous grasp of the English language, many have already done so within this thread and therefore I see no need. Instead, I will attempt to make an educated, intelligent response to your post and rebut your arguments.

In the opening paragraph of your original argument, you state that the New Polar Order is preventing your alliance from living by the policy of 'live and let live'. Review that phrase for a moment, live and let live. Living by such a policy entails allowing others to live in peace and without unjust declarations of war or arbitrary shenanigans on your part. You introduce your argument by making a hypocrite out of yourself, and while I am not here to criticize or critique your persuasive writing skills as I am not your English teacher, I must say that it is a very poor way of introducing your argument. In the first sentence you already introduce a clear stance instead of slowly moving the reader towards a stance by showing a moderate bias in the beginning and then moving more towards the extreme as the reader follows logical arguments. You have exemplified none of these skills and your post is lacking because of it. But I digress.

In your post, you make \m/ out to be the victim of Polaris' oppression, of Polaris' tyranny. I tell you now that you are no such thing. While it is true that Polaris began this war and Polaris led to the greater conflict, and to some extent created the conflict in the beginning with their attempted interference, it is also true that they do not solely posses the blame for this war, in fact much of it lies with you, \m/. Polaris' casus belli was the way in which you treated our Emperor and the comments that you have made to us, as well as the way that you handled diplomatic discussions and your general lack of class as an alliance, especially towards a prominent figure such as AlmightyGrub, followed by a tenuous apology coupled that did not place blame on yourselves but instead avoided it.

\m/ began the war against FoA, that is a fact. Polaris began the war against \m/, that is a fact. Polaris' casus belli is your treatment of our Emperor, that is a fact. This is not, and may I repeat, not some great crusade to end tech raiding as you may think it is and others may preach that it is. This war does not deal with tech raiding and it is simply not factual to say that it is. Many, many pieces of propaganda as well as posts from the government of \m/ ranging from this one to ones in the World Affairs forum state that Polaris' reason for war is tech raiding, while not rejecting the actual CB or even acknowledging the CB. I say to you right now, and you may quote me for posterity or whatever else, this war is not for tech raiding, instead it is a war over the way that you treated AlmightyGrub and the unspeakable things that you said to him.

Your argument goes into the hypocrisy of Polaris in that we do not support your raid on an alliance however we do support other tech raiding alliances such as GOONS, STA, etc. There is no hypocrisy here. Polaris confronted GOONS regarding their war with FoA and was prepared to drop our treaty with them. Instead, GOONS was entirely apologetic and willing to cooperate with Polaris. They were cordial diplomats, and they made concessions that allowed them to remain allies of Polaris. You did not make concessions nor did you conduct decent diplomacy with us, and therefore a different consequence appeared. We did not drop our treaty with GOONS because of their cooperation, however we made war on \m/ because they burned the bridges of diplomacy and spat in the face of our Emperor.

Furthermore, there cannot be hypocrisy in the way that you argue it for the simple reason that this war is not about tech raiding. It is not a crusade to end tech raiding, that point has been stated repeatedly by AlmightyGrub. He does not seek to change \m/'s charter, rather to make you recognize a clause within your own charter about tech raiding. There is no hypocrisy present because, while we neither condone nor support tech raiding, we tolerate it in our allies as well as in our rivals and those with whom we do not conduct diplomacy. This war was simply because of your treatment of our Emperor, it is not about tech raiding. I feel that I cannot stress that point enough, because so many very loud individuals around this community are screaming the 'true cause' of the war, and stating that our crusade against tech raiding is wrong and oppressive. This is not a crusade against tech raiding, it is a crusade against the way that you treated the Emperor of the New Polar Order, that is, with unspeakable language that really should not be uttered in diplomatic talks or when a man comes to you requesting an audience so that he can talk simply about the recent war you engaged in.

Polaris did not despise \m/ prior to this war, however I can guarantee that you have created some of such feelings within Polaris with your comments and the posts that you put on the CN forums about us, spreading lies and utilizing deceit and attempting to turn the world against us. We had no official position regarding \m/, though amongst some of the lower membership there were still ill feelings towards \m/ because of the old things between our alliances, however our government urged, prior to this war, that we let go our grudges and allow \m/ a chance as a new alliance. Our government saw you as a new alliance with no affiliation or allegiance to the old, instead you merely had a name that was coincidental. We do not hate \m/, and that was not the reason for this war.

Thank you, comrade Goby, for your time and I wish you luck on the battlefield.

[Ed Black`]

I wanted no fence against fraud or oppression; here was neither physician to destroy my body, nor lawyer to ruin my fortune; no informer to watch my words and actions, or forge accusations against me for hire: here were no gibers, censurers, backbiters, pickpockets, highwaymen, housebreakers, attorneys, bawds, buffoons, gamesters, politicians, wits, splenetic, tedious talkers, controvertists, ravishers, murders, robbers, virtuosos; no leaders or followers of party and faction; no encouragers to vice, by seducement or examples: no dungeon, axes, gibbets, whipping posts, or pillories; no cheating shopkeepers or mechanics: no pride, vanity, or affectation: no fops, bullies, drunkards, strolling whores, or poxes: no ranting, lewd, expensive wives: no stupid proud pendants: no importunate, overbearing, quarrelsome, noisy, roaring, empty, conceited, swearing companions: no scoundrels, raised from the dust upon the merit of their vices, or nobility thrown into it on account of their virtues: no Lords, fiddlers, Judges or dancing-masters."

- Jonathan Swift, Gulliver's Travels, Part 4, Ch. 9

This thread reminded me of this excerpt and those characters included above are much the same which seem to oppose us even today I believe.

[Bilrow]

In short, \m/ didn't really want someone to "do something."

Got it.

[Zombie Glaucon]

I beg you to learn how to use the hyphen.

[Zessa]

This thread reminded me of this excerpt and those characters included above are much the same which seem to oppose us even today I believe.

I too thought the announcement spent far too much time making a rather simple statement.

[Duke of Cool]

Too long! Did not read most of it! Smells of vinegar and water!!

[armageddon23]

Can't we all just be happy that there is a wonderfully huge war going on again!?

[SilvioArjunza]

I take pride in telling you that I do not cater to filth such as yours. Although it is important to state I do not blame these degenerates for their faults, indeed, a man cannot be blamed for the fallibility of his intelligence;

Mod Edit: (IRC lOG REMOVED DUE TO OFFENSIVE LANGUAGE)

Well, I guess the good thing is that you don't blame your alliance for who they are, or the fallibility of their intelligence. Gentlemen, Comrade Goby, you are most definitely not.

ModEdit: the IRC logs in this post have been removed.

Edited January 28, 2010 by Eden

[Gunnar Griffin]

The previous incarnation of \m/ wasn't weak.

[SupremePrince]

oh \m/

you are very special.

[Nananana]

To begin with, allow me to wish you, the erstwhile reader a good day and give you my thanks ahead of time for choosing to read this piece. Indeed, I feel it necessary to warn you, the reader, before going on further that such a piece as this one will require a certain prose that would make it veritably impossible to discuss what I wish to in shortened version. Therefore, for those of you who would wish to simply be given the point quick and easy, that you may continue to unleash your torrents of unlearned filth upon this global forum of ours, need not read at all, I take pride in telling you that I do not cater to filth such as yours. Although it is important to state I do not blame these degenerates for their faults, indeed, a man cannot be blamed for the fallibility of his intelligence; for as I understand it, a large number of the users upon this forum are nothing more than a pack of jive talking imbeciles who do the world no benefit with their continued debasement of the written word, it should come as no such surprise that the people of whom I speak are far behind the civilized world's standard in intelligence and in literary capability. For those people of whom I speak, again, I must ask you to simply skip this piece, as I can safely assure you it will contain nothing at all of which you would find yourself of interest.

I must say I am skeptical of such a thing but, as a gentleman, I shall continue on even in the face of my surety that no one upon these barbaric forums shall continue to read this most eloquent piece of literature I have put together. Supposing you are, however, still reading then allow me to congratulate you, for you have surely proven yourself a man of higher standard than most of the denizens of this backwater, now allow me to skip to the topic at hand.

This post is about a most interesting phenomena, the war between the Polar Order and their slaves and lackeys, and the rightful, just, and dashing coalition made up of the gentlemen from \m/, Poison Clan, FOK, and the assorted allies of both. Truly, such an occasion as this has been long since expected, good men such as those in our coalition cannot stand and live and let live as they sit fit whilst men of ego and evil sit upon their thrones and dream of what should be theirs and how to take it from and oppress the rightful. In this case, the NpO, as they're called by the ruffians of this forum (i shall conform to their acronyms as to not further alienate my reader base) decided to take it upon themselves to attack my associates and myself in \m/ for what they perceive as a major grievance.

Of what grievance do I speak, you ask? Perhaps you may recall on the older and much more visually appealing forums a certain military engagement between the just alliance of \m/ and the alliance of FoA for the purposes of acquiring technology with which to better our nations. This is no new occurrence on this planet of ours, these "tech raids" happen numerous times every day upon numerous nations and alliances that are too small for most to care. And this is why the actions of NpO are so preposterous, they seek to attack our alliance and the nations whom reside in it in an attempt to prevent such tech raiding, when every day other alliances and countless dozens of nations are put to the torch simply for a small gain in technology and area of influence by those with the means to do so.

Why, then does NpO not seek to stop these raids? Even if they turn a blind eye to the unaligned nations of the world as they are destroyed and looted, what then of the small and micro alliances that are similarly razed on the grounds of monetary and technological gain? Why are these nations bereft of NpO's staunch protection in the face of oblivion? Surely these alliances are not so insignificant as to leave them to their plight while others are given protect and aid? Oh, but that is exactly the case, you see, NpO counters with arguments that it is, in fact, okay to raid alliances, just not ones that fall within their parameters.

What are these parameters, you ask? I am sure all of you, my readers, are familiar with them, such needless constraints as "having less than X members or Y nation strength or Z treaties", it is all well and good that some alliances wish to make use of these measures, perhaps to keep their member base in line and out of trouble or perhaps out of some principle for which they stand, both are admirable. This differs from the NpO in that these restrictions are self imposed by the alliances in question, where as NpO seeks to enforce them upon other sovereign alliances under threat of force and pain of death. They have proven several days ago that they are, in fact, willing to go to war to support these claims of theirs, and thus we stand today.

Surely you can see the hypocrisy in the stance NpO has taken, and even if you do not, they have certainly provided enough evidence that debased their own claims as to open the eyes of even the blinders of readers. The leader of NpO, a certain man by the name of AlmightyGrub, has time and time again stated he cared nothing at all for FoA, the alliance of whom they claim to go to war over. Although the FoA situation was resolved days before any threats of hostility began to circulate upon the open forum, the NpO remained firm in their stance to bring us to justice for a crime that was agreed upon to be solved by both parties.

Why then, if NpO cares not for FoA in the least, do they go to war with \m/? They might say out of principle, it is not that we raided FoA they care about, but that we dared to use our sovereign right to raid so big an alliance as FoA was. One might believe this, or look forward more so to the truth. It should come as no surprise that the NpO hates the alliance \m/, indeed, they shattered the union that bound these blingin nations together years back, and now that we have reformed so their hate has only continued to fester and the infernal itch of this urged them to war those they still bore hatred for.

That, my friends, is the real reason for this military conflict. The NpO hates \m/, and while i fully believe they do not wish to destroy us, they wish to prove that they can, in fact, do so and prove their superiority over an old foe. Perhaps this is their sovereign right to do, but for a nation so convinced in its own moral superiority, I cannot help but question their course of action in this regard. Perhaps they should look more closely at their own moral code before seeking to force such codes upon others.

Still, what is done is done, and the tides of war have come too far now for both sides to simply lay down their weapons and return to their lands and their families. War rages, and every day millions of lives are claimed, nations are burned, and the world edges every little bit closer to oblivion. On behalf of \m/, I say this:

To NpO, you wanted a war, and you have one. We are not the weak willed alliance we once were the previous time we met upon the field of battle, indeed, we have hardened a great deal in mind and body since our last meeting. Your conflict only worked to further forge our ties in blood, and I can assure you for every one of us that dies twenty of yours will be found dead in their homes post invasion or from atomic fire, you will not take us and the fruits we worked for with ease.

To our allies in Poison Clan and their allies and their allies, allow me to thank you for the great honor of fighting with you side by side. This thinly veiled moral crusade instigated by the NpO cannot be allowed to succeed. I ask you, what will become of the world should such strong handed tactics win the day, nothing good, I can assure you. We will not soon forget the kindness you deliver merely from standing beside us on the battlefield, may we all come out victorious in the end.

To the rest of CN, know this; \m/ will not back down from our principles just because one in a higher seat of power thinks they can dictate to us what is right, what is wrong, and what codes and laws we must abide by. Though we may lose much by way of lives, members, and infrastructure, we will never lose our strength in conviction.

I don't even know where to begin with this. There's a complete lack of focus with this writing piece. You spend so much time trying to ward off those who wouldn't read through your whole post before replying and yet..... by their very nature, they aren't going to read it anyways. When you get down to your argument regarding an alliance's sovereignty and the support you give for it, you fail to realize that your arguments works very much against your position. Finally, when you cannot possibly rationalize NpO's actions against you, you cite their hatred for you when nothing you have presented illustrates that fact.

The writing style reminds me of Patrick Ewing at the free throw line, you are overly wordy in a manner consistent with a dog licking himself, and above all, you have the gall to talk of the bastardizing others do to the written language. You're right though, a man cannot be blamed for the fallibility of his intelligence, except in a much more accurate way, he can.

Edited January 28, 2010 by Nananana

[F15pilotX]

Considering the lack of proper grammar in the first paragraph, what you said it made me laugh, OP.

[Taishaku]

@Comrade Goby

To begin with, allow me to wish you, the erstwhile [current] reader a good day and give you my thanks ahead of time [in advance] for choosing to read this piece. Indeed, [before I continue,] I feel it necessary [for me] to warn you , the reader, (Redundant.) before going on further that such a piece as this one will require a certain prose (This is anything but prose.) that would make it veritably impossible to discuss what I wish to in shortened version [a shorter fashion]. Therefore, for those of you who would wish to simply be given the point quick[ly] and eas[il]y (SEE THE UNDERLINED PORTION BELOW FOR THE QUICK-AND-EASY POINT!), [so] that you may continue to unleash your torrents of unlearned filth upon this global forum of ours (I was unaware that you suddenly grew multiple personalities.), need not read at all, [for] I take pride in telling you that I do not cater to filth such as yours [you]. Although[,] it is important to state I do not blame these degenerates for their faults,[.] Indeed, a man cannot be blamed for the fallibility of his intelligence (I don't see why not.); for as I understand it, a large number of the users upon this forum are nothing more than a pack of jive[-]talking imbeciles who do the world no benefit with their continued debasement of the written word (Ironic.). [Therefore,] it should come as no such surprise that the people of whom I speak are far behind the civilized world's standard in intelligence and in literary capability. (Redundant.) For those people of whom I speak, again, I must ask you to simply skip this piece, as I can safely assure you [that] it will contain nothing at all of which you would find yourself of interested in.

I must say [that] I am skeptical of such a thing[,] but, as a gentleman, I shall continue on[,] even in the face of my surety that no one upon these barbaric forums shall continue to read this most eloquent piece of literature [that] I have put together. Supposing you are, however, still reading[,] then allow me to congratulate you, for you have surely proven yourself a man of [a] higher standard than most of the denizens of this backwater (Because everybody wants to read what you write after you thoroughly insult them.),[.] Now[,] allow me to skip [get] to the topic at hand.

This post is about a most interesting phenomena,[:] the war between the [New] Polar Order and their slaves and lackeys, and the rightful, just, and dashing coalition made up of the gentlemen from \m/, Poison Clan, FOK, and the assorted allies of both[the latter two]. Truly, such an occasion [such] as this has been long since expected,[;] good men such as those in our coalition cannot stand and[to] live and let live as they sit[see] fit whilst men of ego and evil[vanity] (I think vanity sounds better.) sit upon their thrones and dream of what should be theirs and how to [best] take it from and oppress the[their] rightful [owners] (This sounds like a B-movie plot, or Avatar.). In this case, the NpO, as they're called by the ruffians of this forum ( shall conform to their acronyms as to not further alienate my reader base (Too late.))[, have] decided to take it upon themselves to attack my associates and myself in \m/ for what they perceive as [to be] a major grievance.

Of what grievance do I speak [of], [do] you ask? Perhaps you may recall on the older [(]and much more visually appealing forums[)] a certain military engagement between the just alliancethe alliance of FoA for the purposes of acquiring technology with which to better our [\m/'s] nations (To date, the fanciest way that I have ever heard one describe tech-raiding.). This is no new occurrence on this planet of ours, these "tech raids" happen numerous times every day upon numerous nations and alliances that are [usually] too small for most to care [about] (Well, SURPRISE!). And this is why the actions of NpO are so preposterous,[;] they seek to attack our alliance and the nations whom reside [with]in it in an attempt to prevent [further discourage] such tech raiding,[.] [Meanwhile,] when every day[,] other alliances and countless dozens of nations are put to the torch simply for a small gain in technology and area of influence by those with the means to do so (Such as \m/, correct?).

Why, then does NpO not seek to stop these raids? Even if they turn a blind eye to the unaligned nations of the world as they are destroyed and looted, what then of the small and micro alliances that are similarly razed on the grounds of monetary and technological gain? Why are these nations bereft of NpO's staunch protection in the face of oblivion? Surely these alliances are not so insignificant as to leave them to their plight while others are given protect[ion] and aid? Oh, but that is exactly the case, [for] you see, NpO counters with [the] arguments that it is, in fact, okay to raid alliances, just not ones that fall within their parameters (Or the ones that don't fit in yours.).

What are these parameters, you ask? I am sure all of you, my readers, are familiar with them, such needless constraints as "having less than X members or Y nation strength or Z treaties[.]", t is all well and good that some alliances wish to make use of these measures, perhaps to keep their member base in line and out of trouble or perhaps out of [due to] some principle for which they stand,; both [purposes] are admirable. This differs from the NpO in that these restrictions are self[-]imposed by the alliances in question, [whereas] NpO seeks to enforce them upon other sovereign alliances under threat of force and pain of death. They have proven several days ago that they are, in fact, willing to go to war to support these claims of theirs, and thus we stand [here] today.

Surely you can see the hypocrisy in the stance [that] NpO has taken, and even if you do not, they have certainly provided enough evidence that [to] debased their own claims as [and] to open the eyes of even the blinders (Awkward.) [eyes] of [you, the] readers. The leader of NpO, a certain man by the name of AlmightyGrub, has time and time again stated [that] he caredof[for] whom they claim to go to[be at] war over. Although the FoA situation was resolved days before any threats of hostility began to circulate upon the open forum, the NpO remained firm in their stance to bring us to justice for a crime that was agreed upon to be [re]solved by both parties (Given we're nuking each other, I would have to disagree with this assertion.).

Why then, if NpO cares not for FoA in the least, do[would] they go to war with \m/? They might say [that it is] out of principle, [that] it is not that we raided FoA [which] they care about, but that we dared to use our sovereign right to raid so big an alliance as FoA was (Was? Oo"). One might believe this, or look forward more so to the truth. It should come as no surprise that the NpO hates the alliance \m/,[.] ndeed, they shattered the union that bound these blingin (Blingin?) nations together years back[ago], and [yet,]now that we have reformed so their hate has only continued to fester and the[it's] infernal itch of this urged[has caused] them to [go to] war [against] those they still bore[bear] hatred for[toward].

That, my friends, is the real reason for this military conflict. The NpO hates \m/, [however, ]and while i fully believe [that] they do not wish to destroy us, [but that] they [merely] wish to prove that they can, in fact, do so and prove their superiority over an old foe. Perhaps this [it] is their sovereign right to do [so], but for a nation so convinced in[of] its own moral superiority, I cannot help but question their course of action in this regard. Perhaps they should look more closely at their own moral code before seeking to force such [a] codes upon others.

Still, what is done is done, and the tides of war have come too far now for both sides to simply lay down their weapons and return to their lands and their families. War rages, and every day[,] millions of lives are claimed[lost], nations are burned, and the world edges every little bit closer to oblivion. On behalf of \m/, I say this:

To NpO,[:] you wanted a war, and you have one. We are not the weak[-]willed alliance [that] we once were the previous time we met upon the field of battle (Funny, I thought you guys were stronger back then.),[.] Indeed, we have hardened a great deal in mind and body since our last meeting. Your conflict [has] only worked to further forge[strengthen] our ties in blood, and I can assure you [that] for every one of us that dies[,] twenty of yours will be found dead in their homes post[-]invasion or from atomic fire (Post-invasion? Oo"), [Y]ou will not take us and the fruits [that] we [have] worked for with ease.

To our allies in Poison Clan and their allies and their allies, allow me to thank you for the great honor of fighting [at your] with you side by side. This thinly veiled moral crusade instigated by the NpO cannot be allowed to succeed. I ask you, what will become of the world should such strong[-]handed tactics win the day,[?] [N]othing good, I can assure you. We will not soon forget the kindness you deliver [by] merely from standing beside us on the battlefield,[;] may we all come out victorious in the end.

To the rest of CN, know this;[;] \m/ will not back down from our principles (What principles? All you talked about are NpO's principles and how they are unfair to you.) just because one in a higher seat of power thinks [that] they can dictate to us what is right, what is wrong, and what codes and laws we must abide by. Though we may lose much by way of lives, members, and infrastructure, we will never lose our strength in [and] conviction.

WHEW. I hope I got it all.

EDIT: Forgot a comma! xD

Edited January 28, 2010 by Taishaku

[erikz]

I'm not part of your so called coalition. We are the friends of PC, not yours. Please do not implicate otherwise. Goodbye.

[ROMMELHSQ]

I'm not part of your so called coalition. We are the friends of PC, not yours. Please do not implicate otherwise. Goodbye.

too late now

FOK

jk/

[hertugen]

I'm not part of your so called coalition. We are the friends of PC, not yours. Please do not implicate otherwise. Goodbye.

ouch \m/. Seems like your "friends" are few and far between..

[erikz]

too late now

FOK

jk/

What do thou suggest, o thou wise emperor?

Edited January 28, 2010 by erikz

[ROMMELHSQ]

What do thou suggest, o thou wise emperor?

DoW \m/ for dragging thy good name into this heresy with them, mine loyal subject.

[Tigerdonia Redux]

You ain't no \m/, you're just a wannabe who looks like \m/! Be gone wannabe, be gone!

[hizzy]

I'm not part of your so called coalition. We are the friends of PC, not yours. Please do not implicate otherwise. Goodbye.

This is probably going to be the only time I address this issue, and it's only because I respect you, and I think I can actually say this to you without it being taken as mindless rhetoric or petty bickering.

Onto the point itself; you've really lost the right claim that you're not part of \m/ coalition, even if in your heart you hate \m/. I know you guys joined "to help PC, not \m/", but the truth of the matter is by joining the war in an aggressive manner you've helped \m/ FAR more than you have helped PC, and you've helped PC less than you would have if you had stayed out of it. In your DoW, you stated "we will not let our friends get massacred." Ok, fair enough. I can't really argue that, nobody can. But that line becomes nothing but rhetoric when you consider that 1) most of PC was in peace mode, and most of those fighting weren't even real PC members, and 2) NpO's terms to PC were to "walk away". Thats actually easier than white peace... they don't even have to sign a document, they just walk away.

So, what has FOK achieved for PC by declaring war on NpO? Well, it certainly hasn't ended the war and saved their nations... and it certainly won't help you help them when the war does finally end (you'll have to do your own rebuilding)... and you've lost a huge diplomatic edge to help PC through negotiations; you can't use the threat of war as a bargaining chip when you're already at war, and if you end up losing, then NpO can easily, and justifiably say "well, you turned into a !@#$ storm, so we'll need some reps". PC is no better off now than it was before you declared war. In fact, it is worse off.

On the other hand, let's look at \m/'s situation: they're chumps. They punched their last ticket. They knew it, you knew it, everybody knew it. They have no fighting capability. But your entrance into the war gave them the possibility of one symbolic win... even if the are completely and utterly destroyed, ZI'd across the board, if your side wins, they will sign the peace treaty on the winning side. You've given them their only light in a dark cave; the possibility of being on the winning side.

So, in saying that, it is not by any exaggeration to claim that you are part of \m/'s coalition. You will go down in history as either 1) having died for \m/, or 2) having saved \m/.

Edited January 28, 2010 by hizzy

[o-dog]

This is probably going to be the only time I address this issue, and it's only because I respect you, and I think I can actually say this to you without it being taken as mindless rhetoric or petty bickering.

Onto the point itself; you've really lost the right claim that you're not part of \m/ coalition, even if in your heart you hate \m/. I know you guys joined "to help PC, not \m/", but the truth of the matter is by joining the war in an aggressive manner you've helped \m/ FAR more than you have helped PC, and you've helped PC less than you would have if you had stayed out of it. In your DoW, you stated "we will not let our friends get massacred." Ok, fair enough. I can't really argue that, nobody can. But that line becomes nothing but rhetoric when you consider that 1) most of PC was in peace mode, and most of those fighting weren't even real PC members, and 2) NpO's terms to PC were to "walk away". Thats actually easier than white peace... they don't even have to sign a document, they just walk away.

So, what has FOK achieved for PC by declaring war on NpO? Well, it certainly hasn't ended the war and saved their nations... and it certainly won't help you help them when the war does finally end (you'll have to do your own rebuilding)... and you've lost a huge diplomatic edge to help PC through negotiations; you can't use the threat of war as a bargaining chip when you're already at war, and if you end up losing, then NpO can easily, and justifiably say "well, you turned into a !@#$ storm, so we'll need some reps". PC is no better off now than it was before you declared war. In fact, it is worse off.

On the other hand, let's look at \m/'s situation: they're chumps. They punched their last ticket. They knew it, you knew it, everybody knew it. They have no fighting capability. But your entrance into the war gave them the possibility of one symbolic win... even if the are completely and utterly destroyed, ZI'd across the board, if your side wins, they will sign the peace treaty on the winning side. You've given them their only light in a dark cave; the possibility of being on the winning side.

So, in saying that, it is not by any exaggeration to claim that you are part of \m/'s coalition. You will go down in history as either 1) having died for \m/, or 2) having saved \m/.

100% crystal clear. That's the pure unadulterated truth right there.

Edited January 28, 2010 by O-Dog

[Bob Janova]

Thanks, Hizzy, for a thorough explanation of something I have apparently been explaining poorly throughout this war. When you have a coalition war, everyone on one side is fighting for the core cause of that side, whether it's their intention or not.