Imperial Decree - New Polar Order

[kriekfreak]

if the 12 year old is in your face and giving it the large "what you gonna do about it?"

and he gets a slap then thats all good

if a few more gobby 12 year olds got a slap now and then the worlds teens wouldnt be like they are today

If a boxer would hit a 12 year old boy, he would get suspended from boxing and arrested by the police. See you in jail NpO

[raasaa]

I really think Polaris is doing the right thing, I think the morality argument is BS. HOWEVER, there some thing that I think is extremely fishy and challenges the sincerity and the consistent of Polaris. If you are declaring on \m/ mainly because the tech raid on an defenseless alliance, why you kept your alliance with GOONS when they did exactly the same thing? Double standarts?

He already covered the GOONS bit in one of his earlier posts.......NpO had a diplomatic chat with GOONs and settled the issue in private channels...

They attempted to do the same with \m/....didn't go too well...!@#$ hit the fan...and here we are

[OneBallMan]

Polaris proves her word, is her word.

You write it in your charter, and then both flout that word and stick your proverbial tongue out at the world, well, there be consequences.

[easyt]

If a boxer would hit a 12 year old boy, he would get suspended from boxing and arrested by the police. See you in jail NpO

if the boxer would hit a 12 year old? if the boxer is x years younger but twice the size?

a boxer is such an open statement how old is the boxer hitting the 12 year old?

apples and oranges

[scottimus prime]

I really think Polaris is doing the right thing, I think the morality argument is BS. HOWEVER, there some thing that I think is extremely fishy and challenges the sincerity and the consistent of Polaris. If you are declaring on \m/ mainly because the tech raid on an defenseless alliance, why you kept your alliance with GOONS when they did exactly the same thing? Double standarts?

Please enlight me.

Keep in mind the following is not a governmental response, but just a member. I believe there was sit-down type meeting where polaris went over it's concerns. We've always thought tech raiding tiny alliances was not cool. We apparently expressed our disdain and inability to tolerate this bullying with all the alliances involved. GOONs were the only ones who were willing to sit down and discuss it in a civil manner. \m/ obviously resorted to both flaunting their policies and taunting us and the rest of Bob. I don't know all the details of the discussion that happened as it's way over my paygrade so you'll have to ask GOON and NpO gov about that... My assumption is that a tolerable concensus was reached about future policies on the matter.

Unless I have mistaken Grub, he has made it clear that we don't expect anything more out of this whole deal than for bullying of tiny alliances for sport and tech to come to an end. Someone must be the one to stop it.

[Bob Janova]

If you are declaring on \m/ mainly because the tech raid on an defenseless alliance, why you kept your alliance with GOONS when they did exactly the same thing? Double standarts?

Grub has stated (I think in the OP here, maybe in Schatt's thread in WA) that both GOONS and PC have been spoken to – presumably some sort of restriction on their conduct has been issued in private, to keep the MDP in GOONS' case and to avoid war in PC's. \m/ went far further in their sabre rattling, and their 'do something about it' attitude, culminating in Grub being personally insulted when he went to discuss diplomacy with them, so they did not get a diplomatic resolution.

[extraduty]

Grub has stated (I think in the OP here, maybe in Schatt's thread in WA) that both GOONS and PC have been spoken to – presumably some sort of restriction on their conduct has been issued in private, to keep the MDP in GOONS' case and to avoid war in PC's. \m/ went far further in their sabre rattling, and their 'do something about it' attitude, culminating in Grub being personally insulted when he went to discuss diplomacy with them, so they did not get a diplomatic resolution.

PC has stated several times in this thread that they never talked to NpO.

[Drostan]

there is no CN Police

From this day forward, Grub, apparently it is you.

If any act has ever justified called the moralists hypocrits than this is it. I don't blame Polar for what they are doing as they seem utterly convinced that it is the right thing to do. But don't kid yourselves about it. You are the dominating force that is now actively policing the conduct of Planet Bob and threatening military intervention. You are asking the world to bend to your will or you will attack them. This is a dangerous precedent and if people don't see that they will in time.

This war, like many before it, is about ego. And while I am being harsh with my statements above, I don't actually blame Polaris for this. I only wish to ensure that each member of Planet Bob understands what is going on here. Many thought it would be \m/ that shook things up, and in a round about way they were right, but it is Polaris that are the true earth-shakers here. Good luck imposing this moral standard on the rest of Bob over the coming months.

I admire \m/'s unwillingness to trample on its own members and alliance sovreignty in the face of danger. Perhaps there are many like this, but we rarely find out.

Have a good fight guys, I am one of those who believes that even violence is a form of communication.

Edited January 21, 2010 by Drostan

[ChairmanHal]

I applaud Polaris for this noble stand

You are an inspiration for a great many of us.

Congratulations to /m\ for finally getting what you deserve

Aside from the fact that there is absolutely nothing noble about this endeavor, you clearly don't know the first thing about \m/ and it is '\m/' not '/m\', nor what they deserve, you are spot on with your commentary. Continued good luck promoting yourself.

[askani the rotund]

o/ Polaris!!!!

GET SOME!

[Locke]

Its not noble if you are willing to fight a 1 vs 1 battle against someone who is alot weaker than you. As I said earlier, it would be like a boxer fighting a 12 year old and then saying that it is fair because neither side got no help from anyone else.

Thats the point, they aren't declaring because of the tech raid. They are doing it because they don't like \m/

I'd be somewhat surprised if \m/'s allies didn't step in to do something for them, not after CC took nearly a week to do so. After all, they were bragging about getting ready on a night's notice.

Is there something wrong with "I don't like you" being a CB? Better than trying to invent some !@#$%^&* one no one believes and subsequently picks apart. If you dislike someone enough that you would go to war with them, please just do so and make no bones about why. Admin knows we certainly need a little honesty around these days.

[Bob Janova]

Re PC, you are correct, apparently they have not been contacted by Grub at this point.

GOONS were contacted immediately, resolution was made. If you have any clue you will know some of the details, if not, too bad.

Poison Clan haven't annoyed me in the same manner as \m/, but I will be more than happy if they want to.

...

If PC want to be attacked, they can wait, I have nothing to prove by attacking every alliance on Bob just to satisfy your agenda or perceptions. \m/ have been declared on and what happens from here will largely dictate what else occurs as we move forward. Consider this a social experiment, we do not need to conduct multiple processes at once.

Edit: Re this

If any act has ever justified called the moralists hypocrits than this is it

This is not hypocrisy; just as imprisoning a criminal is different from imprisoning an innocent man, attacking an alliance for violating the contract of peace written on every man's heart is different from attacking an alliance that has done nothing. You may not agree with Polar's decision, but this war is not equivalent to the one \m/ started and therefore the decision is not hypocritical.

Edited January 21, 2010 by Bob Janova

[Madine]

Wow. I have disliked NpO since they unrightfully interfered in The Second FOK! - The Peace War. And it's seems they haven't changed a bit, still sticking their nose into other people's business.

[ChairmanHal]

From this day forward, Grub, apparently it is you.

If any act has ever justified called the moralists hypocrites than this is it. I don't blame Polar for what they are doing as they seem utterly convinced that it is the right thing to do. But don't kid yourselves about it. You are the dominating force that is now actively policing the conduct of Planet Bob and threatening military intervention. You are asking the world to bend to your will or you will attack them. This is a dangerous precedent and if people don't see that they will in time.

This war, like many before it, is about ego. And while I am being harsh with my statements above, I don't actually blame Polaris for this. I only wish to ensure that each member of Planet Bob understands what is going on here. Many thought it would be \m/ that shook things up, and in a round about way they were right, but it is Polaris that are the true earth-shakers here. Good luck imposing this moral standard on the rest of Bob over the coming months.

I admire \m/'s unwillingness to trample on its own members and alliance sovereignty in the face of danger. Perhaps there are many like this, but we rarely find out.

Have a good fight guys, I am one of those who believes that even violence is a form of communication.

Oh I see it...and I'm sitting here nodding my head in agreement for the most part.

This war is about opportunism, convenience, and "making example"...as I eluded to previously, there isn't really anything noble about it.

[Dochartaigh]

So you cede that \m/ declared war on an alliance with no diplomacy and no CB?

but but Nizzle, \m/ is allowed to do that. Polaris is not allowed to declare war on \m/ even after trying diplomacy and having \m/ insult the Emperor of Polaris. it just is not allowed. \m/ though can most assuredly declare war on an alliance much smaller than it and then brag about how they will do nothing about it because their charter is written on toilet paper.

So now we are resorting to personal attacks?

You still aren't getting it. This is nothing more than Polar chosing one alliance, \m/, to DOW because \m/ has performed some actions that Polar doesn't like, but the catch that makes this Polar situations hypocritical is that Polar has done nothing to other alliances who did the same thing as \m/,

But really, continue to attack me personnally instead of Polar's hypocricy because we all know if you yell it loud enough you will become right

actually, i do believe you are the one not getting it if you seriously think this war is just over a tech raid of an alliance. that may fit in with the equation but does not make the entire formula. sure it is the part that is easy to argue and debate over, but is in fact the smaller of the reasons Polaris went to war. so once you finally figure that out, you can attempt to continue debating as if you are not ignorant of the reasons (yes, multiple Caliph) for this war.

[mattski133]

Looks good to me. Finally some battle for the generals of the world to evaluate.

[scottimus prime]

Wow. I have disliked NpO since they unrightfully interfered in The Second FOK! - The Peace War. And it's seems they haven't changed a bit, still sticking their nose into other people's business.

It's easier to assume everyone can fend for themselves when you are #12 on the alliance list. When you are #140 the vantage point is different, this is so all those who are just getting their feet wet can do so without being tormented by someone for nothing but tech and lulz. We just want it to stop. We don't require reps or anything, we just want it to stop.

People don't get to bully for free anymore, there is now a cost associated with bullying...

[WalkerNinja]

Aside from the fact that there is absolutely nothing noble about this endeavor, you clearly don't know the first thing about \m/ and it is '\m/' not '/m\', nor what they deserve, you are spot on with your commentary. Continued good luck promoting yourself.

Actually, NpO is giving us a classic example of a Culture of Honor. Give special attention to the underlined portion.

[C]ultures of honour typically appear among nomadic peoples and herdsmen who carry their most valuable property with them and risk having it stolen, without having recourse to law enforcement or government. In this situation, inspiring fear forms a better strategy than promoting friendship; and cultivating a reputation for swift and disproportionate revenge increases the safety of one's person and property. Thinkers ranging from Montesquieu to Steven Pinker have remarked upon the mindset needed for a culture of honour.

Cultures of honour therefore appear among the Bedouin, Scottish and English herdsmen of the Border country, and many similar peoples, who have little allegiance to a national government; among cowboys, frontiersmen, and ranchers of the American West, where official law-enforcement often remained out of reach, as is famously celebrated in Westerns; among the plantation culture of the American South, and among aristocrats, who enjoy hereditary privileges that put them beyond the reach of codes of law. Cultures of honour also flourish in criminal underworlds and gangs, whose members carry large amounts of cash and contraband and cannot complain to the law if it is stolen.

Cultures of honour will often arise when three conditions[2] exist: 1) a lack of resources; 2) where the benefit of theft and crime outweighs the risks; and 3) a lack of sufficient law enforcement (such as in geographically remote regions). Historically cultures of honour exist in places where the economy is dominated by herding animals. In this situation the geography is usually remote since the soil can not support extensive sustained farming and thus large populations; the benefit of stealing animals from other herds is high since it is main form of wealth; and there is no central law enforcement or rule of law. However cultures of honour can also appear in places like modern inner city slums. The three conditions exist here as well: lack of resources (poverty); crime and theft have a high rewards compared to the alternatives (few); and law enforcement is generally lax or corrupt.[2]

Once a culture of honour exists, it is difficult for its members to make the transition to a culture of law; this requires that people become willing to back down and refuse to immediately retaliate, and from the viewpoint of the culture of honour, this tends to appear to be an unwise act reflecting weakness.

[kriekfreak]

People don't get to bully for free anymore, there is now a cost associated with bullying...

If this were to be true, you'd have attacked every raiding alliance out there, including us. So far I only see a declaration on \m/. You know what that is called? Cowardice..

[Ashoka the Great]

Before the reformation of Nordreich, Grub told one of the founders not to worry about a protectorate because anyone who attacked would get a not-so-friendly tap on the shoulder from a number of people, including himself. And so I believe the Emperor of the NpO has been considering an act like this for some time.

This does not make it "right" but it does make it consistent, and I respect that.

[scottimus prime]

(scottimus prime @ Jan 21 2010, 03:29 PM) *

People don't get to bully for free anymore, there is now a cost associated with bullying...

If this were to be true, you'd have attacked every raiding alliance out there, including us. So far I only see a declaration on \m/. You know what that is called? Cowardice..

(once again, not official NpO government position here, just a member)

GOONS responded well to a discussion of the matter. My understanding is that their government was civil and the conversation was productive (props to them by the way).....

\m/ responded in a dramatically different fashion and achieved dramatically different results

[Meer Republic]

If this were to be true, you'd have attacked every raiding alliance out there, including us. So far I only see a declaration on \m/. You know what that is called? Cowardice..

Why do everything at once when there's no need to?

There's nothing cowardly about it, Grub and Polar have taken their action and in doing so left themselves open to retaliation, if anything the people mouthing off rather than retaliating are the cowards. They've been given a clear invitation.

[Fulgrim]

You know what that is called? Cowardice..

Would you say that applies to your tech raiding buddies? I would.

[Epik High]

If this were to be true, you'd have attacked every raiding alliance out there, including us. So far I only see a declaration on \m/. You know what that is called? Cowardice..

It's trying to affect change in a realistic manner.

I think stealing is bad, but I don't dress up at night catching all the criminals I can. But I do try to stop it when I see it. Does that make me a coward?

[ChairmanHal]

This is not hypocrisy; just as imprisoning a criminal is different from imprisoning an innocent man, attacking an alliance for violating the contract of peace written on every man's heart is different from attacking an alliance that has done nothing. You may not agree with Polar's decision, but this war is not equivalent to the one \m/ started and therefore the decision is not hypocritical.

LOL..."violating the contract of peace written on every man's heart"? Where did you pull that line from?

Look...\m/ was the slowest member of the gang and Polaris, the donut eating cop, managed to grab him before he cleared the fence. So now the judge, basically the same donut eating cop, is throwing the book at \m/ and punishing them for the crimes of the others. Given Polaris' history and the circumstances here, don't you find it at least a wee bit suspect?