The Coincidence Coalition

[Kzoppistan]

This is wrong. During the negotiations TPF repeatedly said they would only go for white peace, eventually GOD, \m/, Rok and Athens agreed. Next thing you know, all of TPF leaves saying things aren't going anywhere.

Nope. Plain old white peace.

CnG actually has a precedent in the UBD war. White peace after a week of war is how we handle spying.

A coalition is not a cause. It has a cause (or at least should), but it is not the cause.

Never my dear Doitzel. Surely TOP stands for all that is good and just in this world. They would never have an ulterior motive.

Not at all.

I've seen the logs, but at the moment they are on a private section of our forum, so I'm afraid I can't share them with you. Ask an involved alliance head for them if you want to verify something. MK gov has them.

EDIT: And as usual, Doitzel beats me. That is the end part of the logs, after the other two TPF reps suddenly left without a word.

So Athens attacks on a bogus CB without diplomatic efforts and then tries to offer peace at the last minute to escape the ensuing destruction?

That's not being reasonable, that's being despicable cowards. This PR spin they're trying is going to blow up in their faces.

Edited January 2, 2010 by Kzoppistan

[silentkiller]

I guess TOP doesn't like diplomacy as much as we were led to believe.

Two wrongs still make a right even after Pacifica's fall, I guess.

You're joking, right? Hoo wanted to clear up a misunderstanding so we get a global war? Tell me you're joking.

Nope I am talking about the fact that people hailed that as fighting against oppression and what not where as now its so bad.

[Matthew Conrad]

So TPF gets offered white peace exactly 5 minutes before 17 alliances were set to DoW. How exactly did you expect them to stop all 17 alliances with only a couple minutes notice?

Did you really think they would be foolish enough to halt the whole war plan before even finalizing a peace deal?

When the talks started, a simple "hey hold up we're talking right now" would suffice I would think. The war plan already halted for 5 days, not sure why it would be so immensely difficult for it to wait another. Given the amount of wars, I don't think it would have messed up your military plans whatsoever. I'm sure the alliances you attacked would have waved off those wars had peace been achieved.

[Infidel Israeli]

Doch, I hate how you can get in your posts before me when we have the same point

[Vladimir Stukov II]

IF the alliances attacking TPF truly wanted peace they wouldn't have waited until 5 minutes before all of TPF's alliances come in to offer it. This was a lame attempt at good PR. "Oh no they attacked us in the middle of peace negotiations!"

[silentkiller]

basically, they are committing the same crime as they are accusing Athens. the only difference is the essentially fake set of talks that was underwent.

What defending TPF? yeah I am sure they dont feel too bad about being commiting that crime.

[Nizzle]

You're joking, right? Hoo wanted to clear up a misunderstanding so we get a global war? Tell me you're joking.

Global war has been started for less, we all know that. I mean, that's my impression from reading the logs. I'm certainly not involved at any level, so I can't definitively know.

IRC is a wonderful thing. i am certain that since the leaders were online to dispatch orders, they could have easily been taken aside in a query and told that peace was accepted. instead TPF walked out.

Plausible.

it would not have taken that long in all actuality had peace actually been wanted by CC. as it stands, it is pretty clear that peace was most likely not going to be accepted, otherwise TPF would not have walked out of the talks.

The implication that the white peace agreement wouldn't read as I stated above may have been quite enough. Of course, you are most definitely set in your opinion, so it's going to be fruitless to talk about.

even if TPF had accepted and DoWs gone out due to lack of time. it could have been retracted by update. so again, it is obvious that TPF/CC did not want peace and only wanted blood.

But...they are cowards, right?

basically, they are committing the same crime as they are accusing Athens. the only difference is the essentially fake set of talks that was underwent.

You mean that they actually engaged in talks before going to war?

[WorkingClassRuler]

So Athens attacks on a bogus CB without diplomatic efforts and then tries to offer peace at the last minute to escape the ensuing destruction?

That's not being reasonable, that's being despicable cowards. This PR spin they're trying is going to blow up in their faces.

PR spin that Athens is trying? On the contrary, friend, look at who is making this rather valid argument.

[Infidel Israeli]

So Athens attacks on a bogus CB without diplomatic efforts and then tries to offer peace at the last minute to escape the ensuing destruction?

That's not being reasonable, that's being despicable cowards. This PR spin they're trying is going to blow up in their faces.

Wasn't it TPF that asked for white peace?

[Kzoppistan]

I guess TOP doesn't like diplomacy as much as we were led to believe.

Apparently neither does Athens nor their allies.

[Dochartaigh]

So Athens attacks on a bogus CB without diplomatic efforts and then tries to offer peace at the last minute to escape the ensuing destruction?

That's not being reasonable, that's being despicable cowards. This PR spin their trying is going to blow up in their faces.

Hoo stated flat out that the affair was not gonna be a long one. thus a cycle of war is not that long. also from what i heard Athens and Co basically offered up no reps or any other terms except an admission of guilt before today. so it does appear as if TPF was not going to be in this war for all but a cycle especially given that all agreed to white peace today. so to state them offering peace makes them cowards is just ridiculous as they had already offered a 1 term peace deal prior to today.

ooc: also no hangover.

@Infidel- <3 you man.

[Haflinger]

There seems to be an assumption in the thread that just because some people decided to come to TPF's defense during an ongoing war that that should somehow end TPF peace negotiations.

It doesn't. It just helps to clarify the situation that is developing.

[Dochartaigh]

What defending TPF? yeah I am sure they dont feel too bad about being commiting that crime.

bloodlust. that is the crime. white peace was on the table and TPF walked out. i could have sworn that all of you were calling for just that a couple of days ago. when it is offered and rejected, ya'll hail.... interesting set of double standards you got there.

[silentkiller]

When the talks started, a simple "hey hold up we're talking right now" would suffice I would think. The war plan already halted for 5 days, not sure why it would be so immensely difficult for it to wait another. Given the amount of wars, I don't think it would have messed up your military plans whatsoever. I'm sure the alliances you attacked would have waved off those wars had peace been achieved.

Just like the ceasefire that Athen,Rok, offered right?

bloodlust. that is the crime. white peace was on the table and TPF walked out. i could have sworn that all of you were calling for just that a couple of days ago. when it is offered and rejected, ya'll hail.... interesting set of double standards you got there

Who said talks have to stop? In the meantime Athens and co get some pixel loss due to what TPF's allies think is a bogus CB then I am fine with it. And nope I never said that white peace was the solution to this, although I did say that negotiations before the war was declared was definitely needed.

Edited January 2, 2010 by silentkiller

[Matthew Conrad]

There seems to be an assumption in the thread that just because some people decided to come to TPF's defense during an ongoing war that that should somehow end TPF peace negotiations.

It doesn't. It just helps to clarify the situation that is developing.

Not sure how the terms presented to them can get much easier.

[Kzoppistan]

PR spin that Athens is trying? On the contrary, friend, look at who is making this rather valid argument.

I'm pretty sure this was cooked up by Athens or RoK. Just because some one else is their mouthpeice doesn't make it any less pathetic.

[Vladimir Stukov II]

bloodlust. that is the crime. white peace was on the table and TPF walked out. i could have sworn that all of you were calling for just that a couple of days ago. when it is offered and rejected, ya'll hail.... interesting set of double standards you got there.

I'm pretty sure you were calling for TPF's allies to come in just a few days ago. They finally come in and all you do is bawww.

[Doitzel]

IF the alliances attacking TPF truly wanted peace they wouldn't have waited until 5 minutes before all of TPF's alliances come in to offer it. This was a lame attempt at good PR. "Oh no they attacked us in the middle of peace negotiations!"

They probably thought they had another week or two.

[Dochartaigh]

There seems to be an assumption in the thread that just because some people decided to come to TPF's defense during an ongoing war that that should somehow end TPF peace negotiations.

It doesn't. It just helps to clarify the situation that is developing.

actually, to my knowledge most don't assume that. TPF walking out of the negotiations confirm that fact. especially when they had the white peace they wanted.

sorry Haf, TPF made ya'll finally coming to their defense just look plain horrible especially when ya'll have talked about diplomacy, white peace, and all that crap for the last week just to have TPF throw that in Athens and Co's face once TPF knew they had their friends coming in.

[Urmom]

It's really hilarious that so many people are buying into this whole peace scenario. SuperComplaints know that CC will not attack the night of a new year on planet Bob, meaning that tonight would be the only plausible time to strike. So, conveniently, right before update they try to start talks of peace so that they can claim the moral high ground that "peace was being achieved!" and CC attacked when it is really just a simple PR stunt.

[WorkingClassRuler]

I'm pretty sure this was cooked up by Athens or RoK. Just because some one else is their mouthpeice doesn't make it any less pathetic.

I'm talking about the people arguing in this thread about the white peace. Do you honestly think Hoo is pulling my strings to point out the foolishness of this Coalition, or that Londo is whispering in Doitzel's ear to show how TPF were offered white peace and yet still left? Come on now.

[Matthew Conrad]

Just like the ceasefire that Athen,Rok, offered right?

Not sure exactly what you're getting at. Clarifying would be helpful.

[Nizzle]

bloodlust. that is the crime. white peace was on the table and TPF walked out. i could have sworn that all of you were calling for just that a couple of days ago. when it is offered and rejected, ya'll hail.... interesting set of double standards you got there.

First they are cowards, now they want blood. Then they don't want diplomacy, but yet this war was started over a lack of it. I'm also pretty sure there wasn't a huge call for white peace, merely pointing out that there was a huge lack of diplomacy.

I'm honestly shocked that TPF's allies fell for the same ploy twice. This was the same MO used in the Karma war, no?

EDIT:

It's really hilarious that so many people are buying into this whole peace scenario. SuperComplaints know that CC will not attack the night of a new year on planet Bob, meaning that tonight would be the only plausible time to strike. So, conveniently, right before update they try to start talks of peace so that they can claim the moral high ground that "peace was being achieved!" and CC attacked when it is really just a simple PR stunt.

This is becoming pretty obvious now, the propagandists are changing their talking points from "cowardice" to "bloodlust". I'm disappointed that no one was smart enough to avoid this a second time.

Edited January 2, 2010 by Nizzle

[Infidel Israeli]

It's really hilarious that so many people are buying into this whole peace scenario. SuperComplaints know that CC will not attack the night of a new year on planet Bob, meaning that tonight would be the only plausible time to strike. So, conveniently, right before update they try to start talks of peace so that they can claim the moral high ground that "peace was being achieved!" and CC attacked when it is really just a simple PR stunt.

No, the plausible time would have been before new years. And again, I thought TPF started the negotiations by requesting white peace. Am I getting this wrong? I could be, this is a serious question.

Edited January 2, 2010 by Infidel Israeli

[Fantastico]

It's really hilarious that so many people are buying into this whole peace scenario. SuperComplaints know that CC will not attack the night of a new year on planet Bob, meaning that tonight would be the only plausible time to strike. So, conveniently, right before update they try to start talks of peace so that they can claim the moral high ground that "peace was being achieved!" and CC attacked when it is really just a simple PR stunt.

Yesterday was the last full day of the world?

TOP, you have betrayed TOP.