Yankees Empire Posted December 16, 2009 Report Share Posted December 16, 2009 This situation is relevant to my interests and I shall follow it intently. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Ultimate 747 Posted December 16, 2009 Report Share Posted December 16, 2009 (edited) I would like to register my support for whomever comes out of this looking the best. Edited December 16, 2009 by Khrushchev Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
astronaut jones Posted December 16, 2009 Report Share Posted December 16, 2009 yeah, you still don't make sense. it was of consequence, and we asked him back after seeing what happened, but at what point while he left were we in negotiations for peace?? war had broken out and was going ramping up hard, fast and furious. BTW, we never said he couldn't do it, just that it slowed down the peace process, and caused problems with it, all of it true. From what I was told, the rogue label came from his own alliance to describe his actions. You don't understand. I'm making perfect sense, you just don't understand.. which, well.. By making this thread, by flexing what little muscle you have left, by airing this out in public for all to see, you have made a HUGE deal out of this, and you have called them out based upon the actions of this member. You effectively threatened them in the very first post in this thread, and I would say that you have done more to slow down the peace process with that nonsense, than anyone in IAA has done. And in simple terms here. Leader of TPF goes rogue during Karma war. Leaves TPF to do so. No one cares, no one in TPF chastises him or worse for his actions. No one thinks it looks bad on TPF. Some random government member of IAA, not the leader, just random government guy, leaves IAA to go rogue. You chastise the alliance. You think it looks bad on them. YOU. CANT. HAVE. IT. BOTH. WAYS. I hope that's simple enough for you to comprehend now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Facade Posted December 16, 2009 Report Share Posted December 16, 2009 I would like to preemptively register my support for whomever comes out of this looking the best. TPF thanks you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The AUT Posted December 16, 2009 Report Share Posted December 16, 2009 (edited) Chim, mhawk, you guys know I both love you, in a bromance way, and don't want to see this escalate to war. I just hope you guys can just move on from this incident as we can agree there was misunderstanding all around. Then you should have addressed those concerns in private, before coming here. I'm sure if you had taken the initiative to discuss this with IAA gov (especially Chimaera himself) it would have been resolved. But you didn't. I must say, Christmas War '09 is looking mighty interesting. If that's the case I wish you all a happy Green Christmas on Planet Bob. I just wish I could get a hot girl under the cruise missiletoe this year. Edited December 16, 2009 by The AUT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Earogema Posted December 16, 2009 Report Share Posted December 16, 2009 yeah, you still don't make sense. it was of consequence, and we asked him back after seeing what happened, but at what point while he left were we in negotiations for peace?? war had broken out and was going ramping up hard, fast and furious. BTW, we never said he couldn't do it, just that it slowed down the peace process, and caused problems with it, all of it true. From what I was told, the rogue label came from his own alliance to describe his actions. I won't debate anything about this situation, but that's just a rogue who was just accepted back, in the same way that E_S was welcomed back to Polar after the Karma war. He went rogue. Personally, I see it as a sign of strength and courage. I won't profess to understand anything of roguery from this situation other than the fact that ZDP was originally a rogue alliance that no longer should bear that title. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Earogema Posted December 16, 2009 Report Share Posted December 16, 2009 (edited) EDIT: Whoops, can't do that on an Administ forum. Edited December 16, 2009 by Earogema Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mathias Posted December 16, 2009 Report Share Posted December 16, 2009 Chim, mhawk, you guys know I both love you, in a bromance way, and don't want to see this escalate to war. I just hope you guys can just move on from this incident as we can agree there was misunderstanding all around. Yes, TPF certainly did misunderstand how to handle this situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roadie Posted December 16, 2009 Report Share Posted December 16, 2009 Excuse me? Did you just come out and say this was an attempt to threaten IAA? Glad you're admitting it.For the record, TPF has clearly not spent any time trying to resolve the matter diplomatically, considering your leader called my alliance out as warmongers without taking the time to actually get his facts straight or talk to anyone within the Empire. No. Not a threat at all. Attempts at diplomacy on irc by members of several alliances, inlcuding TPF have accomplished nothing. While those parties have been trying to resolve this, the conflict has been building the entire time into something that appears to have the potential to become a larger conflict. Coming here is an ettempt to prevent that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dochartaigh Posted December 16, 2009 Report Share Posted December 16, 2009 There is too much privacy these days. so there is too much privacy when it comes to IAA but you stay private when it comes to TOP? again, you come out looking like well......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vilien Posted December 16, 2009 Report Share Posted December 16, 2009 No. Not a threat at all. Attempts at diplomacy on irc by members of several alliances, inlcuding TPF have accomplished nothing. While those parties have been trying to resolve this, the conflict has been building the entire time into something that appears to have the potential to become a larger conflict. Coming here is an ettempt to prevent that. I know I always issue ultimatums and drag issues into public if I want them resolved peacefully and quietly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mhawk Posted December 16, 2009 Author Report Share Posted December 16, 2009 You don't understand. I'm making perfect sense, you just don't understand.. which, well..By making this thread, by flexing what little muscle you have left, by airing this out in public for all to see, you have made a HUGE deal out of this, and you have called them out based upon the actions of this member. You effectively threatened them in the very first post in this thread, and I would say that you have done more to slow down the peace process with that nonsense, than anyone in IAA has done. And in simple terms here. Leader of TPF goes rogue during Karma war. Leaves TPF to do so. No one cares, no one in TPF chastises him or worse for his actions. No one thinks it looks bad on TPF. Some random government member of IAA, not the leader, just random government guy, leaves IAA to go rogue. You chastise the alliance. You think it looks bad on them. YOU. CANT. HAVE. IT. BOTH. WAYS. I hope that's simple enough for you to comprehend now. Probably should make it clear that whatever the IAA guy did as rogue or whatever isn't what prompted this thread. I'd agree with aj's analysis the IAA guy is probably just randomly there roguing out or to defend friends. The threats from IAA and mentioning of CB is what prompted this thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tygaland Posted December 16, 2009 Report Share Posted December 16, 2009 mhawk = Penkala NEW = Athens ZDP = KoN! Reaction = different. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mhawk Posted December 16, 2009 Author Report Share Posted December 16, 2009 so there is too much privacy when it comes to IAA but you stay private when it comes to TOP? again, you come out looking like well......... Once again, TOP never threatened so there would be no need to be public or private regarding them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keve69 Posted December 16, 2009 Report Share Posted December 16, 2009 There is too much privacy these days. *** EPIC FACEPALM *** mhawk showing good ol' style hegemony leadership since 2009? Really? How Keve Feels about it: Colour me suprised! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yevgeni Luchenkov Posted December 16, 2009 Report Share Posted December 16, 2009 He went rogue. Personally, I see it as a sign of strength and courage. I won't profess to understand anything of roguery from this situation other than the fact that ZDP was originally a rogue alliance that no longer should bear that title. We have been perceived as rogues but we never were. It never was our intention to go out with a bang, otherwise we would have chosen our targets and stayed in war mode all along. Instead, we peaced out with GOONS, MK and Polaris and are currently paying reparations to the former. If drama seems to follow us, it is probably because certain people (namely NEW in this scenario) seems to think everything is permitted as long as the enemy is small and appears defenseless. How we were treated would have provoked a massive war should they have done it on a bigger alliance. They know it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tarikmo Posted December 16, 2009 Report Share Posted December 16, 2009 No. Not a threat at all. Attempts at diplomacy on irc by members of several alliances, inlcuding TPF have accomplished nothing. While those parties have been trying to resolve this, the conflict has been building the entire time into something that appears to have the potential to become a larger conflict. Coming here is an attempt to prevent that. Chimaera has stated there has been no attempts, therefore I have to assume TPF was just talking to the voices in their head. "They call it schizophrenia, we call it justice!" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dochartaigh Posted December 16, 2009 Report Share Posted December 16, 2009 No. Not a threat at all. Attempts at diplomacy on irc by members of several alliances, inlcuding TPF have accomplished nothing. While those parties have been trying to resolve this, the conflict has been building the entire time into something that appears to have the potential to become a larger conflict. Coming here is an ettempt to prevent that. how is calling IAA out over an issue that could have been resolved had Mhawk simply attempted to talk to Staggy (facade on the OWF) or any other gov in IAA? oh wait, that is not attempting peace at all. it is attempting to flex some muscle at an alliance Mhawk feels TPF and allies have a good chance at beating in a war. hence why Mhawk kept everything with TOP private by talkin to their gov and did not call them out at all throughout this entire affair. this is only growing larger because it seems that Mhawk is the one threatening and NEW broke the original deal and won't pay reps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roadie Posted December 16, 2009 Report Share Posted December 16, 2009 I know I always issue ultimatums and drag issues into public if I want them resolved peacefully and quietly. Resolved peacefully would be more important than resolved quietly. It was turning into something to which the resolution could possibly not be both. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kulomascovia Posted December 16, 2009 Report Share Posted December 16, 2009 Let me add a few notes to this topic. What you describe as peaceful negotiations, I found to be riddled with threats (Ironically this type of stuff, "if you don't do this, we're going to make you this months athens"... which I found amusing for personal reasons ) combined with several alliances coming to me to note that this issue is likely to result in some form of war in the near future. I found the conversations taunting as opposed to respectful, especially given some issues our friends have with our particular language. The threats to take this to the owf and bash them would likely have been pretty bad for them, once again considering the language barrier. I figured we might as well go ahead and put the situation out there without all the "you double crossed us and are full of lies" banter. ZDP has legit reasons for being upset, NEW certainly likely realizes it was a bad raid. The purpose of this thread is not to threaten, but to assist our friends in communicating their desire for peace, which I fired was about to be deeply hidden under an organized smear campaign on the owf. -- PS, guys leave athens and pez alone please. Lets focus on being good friends to NEW for the moment. Who threatened to take the matter to the OWF or escalate the conflict? Can you provide evidence of these hostile conversations? Though I understand your intentions in going public with this, you are lacking evidence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vilien Posted December 16, 2009 Report Share Posted December 16, 2009 (edited) Resolved peacefully would be more important than resolved quietly. It was turning into something to which the resolution could possibly not be both. Chimaera's mediation in a private forum was simply getting too out of hand, so we decided to air this problem out in a super-charged, bloodthirsty environment. Good call. Edited December 16, 2009 by Vilien Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Facade Posted December 16, 2009 Report Share Posted December 16, 2009 (edited) I know I always issue ultimatums and drag issues into public if I want them resolved peacefully and quietly. I should be taking notes. Edited December 16, 2009 by Facade Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mhawk Posted December 16, 2009 Author Report Share Posted December 16, 2009 *** EPIC FACEPALM ***mhawk showing good ol' style hegemony leadership since 2009? Really? How Keve Feels about it: Colour me suprised! I actually tend to think of the old Q as secretive and Vox/FAN as the open style posters. However I agree this is clearly hegemonic control in action. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Earogema Posted December 16, 2009 Report Share Posted December 16, 2009 mhawk = PenkalaNEW = Athens ZDP = KoN! Reaction = different. Well, ZDP actually defended themselves, and KoN! didn't have an alliance attempt to defend them/weren't originally a rogue alliance, but yes, this is quite similar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mhawk Posted December 16, 2009 Author Report Share Posted December 16, 2009 Who threatened to take the matter to the OWF or escalate the conflict? Can you provide evidence of these hostile conversations? Though I understand your intentions in going public with this, you are lacking evidence. (OOC evidence and logs are on different computer, I'm working on some stuff late at the office) I'll be sure to cite examples shortly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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