wF/VE Competence

[Lord Fingolfin]

War is good. Hence a +1 in my book for VE and wF. At least they gave us something to talk about and wF is honorably taking responsibility for its actions

[NoFish]

Starcraftmazter, I enjoy how how conveniently leave out the part where the rogue who manufactured the evidence had a multi in wF government who presumably claimed to do due diligence on it. Do you typically double-check things that your government members assure you is true? I would propose that if you do, there's no point to having them as government at all. This is the case of a single individual infiltrating an alliance in an attempt to start a war.

Obviously, VE is not incompetent for choosing to take their allies at their word. That's something I would expect of most any alliance. The fact that you don't seem to think so says troubling things about yourself.

[SpacingOutMan]

Starcraftmazter, I enjoy how how conveniently leave out the part where the rogue who manufactured the evidence had a multi in wF government who presumably claimed to do due diligence on it. Do you typically double-check things that your government members assure you is true? I would propose that if you do, there's no point to having them as government at all. This is the case of a single individual infiltrating an alliance in an attempt to start a war.

Oh come now, don't spoil his fun just yet!

Polarized topic... polarized answers... yep, that is a nice null vote. Next time, try making a poll that doesn't reek of failure. Had this been in my Stats class last year... well, my teacher's mustache had a knack to do weird things when he was angry and yelling at you and it was the creepiest thing. Ever.

[NickCooley]

Where is the "This whole affair has been painfully dragged out and I hate all of you for flogging the thin veneer of blood that was once a dead horse" option?

[daggarz]

Oh yes, I checked it myself. I do accept that I am incompetent in the ways of 404 errors and what they mean, and accepted that when I saw the explanation that it could have expired or been deleted as reasoning for why it no longer worked and showed the 404.

I am the complete opposite of tech savvy as well. And to be honest I look to trust other people if it comes to a situation like that.

I do not blame VE for supporting WF as I would not expect less of any other alliance. I have had too many bad experiences with Alliances not trusting their allies and turning against them. I would rather see VE trust someone and come off in the wrong for it than not trust them and be the definition of a bad guy in my books.

On wF, I agree, they are incompetent.

In short, VE should be praised for being able to Trust another alliance and I am sorry that their trust was betrayed.

[Comrade Craig]

I have to chime in and say that VE's support for its ally does not make it incompetent. VE is the victim of deception, so I don't think it deserves such harsh criticism. One can be wrong without being incompetent.

-Craig

Edited December 3, 2009 by Comrade Craig

[SpacingOutMan]

I have to chime in and say that VE's support for its ally does not make it incompetent. VE is the victim of deception, so I don't think it deserves such harsh criticism. One can be wrong without being incompetent.

-Craig

Very much this. Heaven forbid we make a mistake on a homework assignment irl and immediately be condemned to be incompetent.

[Bill Wallace]

This is fun. I wonder if poor grammar is a sign of being incompetent? I don't think it is, but I could be wrong.

[shahenshah]

wow, you managed to trick almost 3 times the people to say 'yes' to your vote by your polarized topic and polarized wording.

[Aeternos Astramora]

Yes, yes, and yes. You're basically just trusting the word of a single, unknown guy.

[Homura]

I voted "no" to all. wF had good enough reasons to attack beyond the screenshot or even just a simple 'lol KDII', and yet you refuse to acknowledge that. The idea that if part of the evidence is wrong then it all must definitely be wrong is a fallacy. Furthermore, the only incompetent alliance here is UED, for having such poor control over their membership, not the ones who correctly responded to their dangerous lack of order.

[Penkala]

VE, Just pull a NPO/TOP and say "VOTED YES! WE'RE EVIL!" To make it even better, say this, then vote no. Now it looks like there should be +1 in the no category and -1 in the yes category!

Edited December 4, 2009 by Penkala

[Fernando12]

No vote on the first as any alliance who's leadership is not aware of how those "tech code" things work would probably have used it as a CB.

No vote on the second because it is pretty much the same as the first. If you don't have the "tech code" knowledge to know that it could be false then most alliances would probably proceed with the CB.

Maybe on the third because if it was brought to their attention that the information is flawed then they should have immediately ceased fire to confirm and open dimplomatic talks during the confirmation process.

Trying to make them look bad with this poll?

It's great that you caught this quickly and presented it. What you should have done is gotten the involved alliances into a channel and presented your findings and told them "hey, this is what I know of how this works and you guys are going to war on false information. Please review it and consider peace"

No need to keep bringing this up to fuel bad opinions.

Edited December 4, 2009 by Fernando12

[Solaris]

VE, Just pull a NPO/TOP and say "VOTED YES! WE'RE EVIL!" To make it even better, say this, then vote no. Now it looks like there should be +1 in the no category and -1 in the yes category!

The Viridian Empire votes yes, because we are evil enough to trust our allies' (former/unofficial advisory) government member.

[NoFish]

So I just had been getting to thinking about how this poll is clearly biased against VE - far moreso than it is against wF... and then I just happened to remember that quite a while back Polar decided to roll The Dark Fist, Starcraftmazter's alliance, of whom at the time VE was the only major treaty partner of. As they also held a treaty with Polar (which they soon canceled over the incident) VE decided to stay neutral in the conflict.

Now I have to wonder if maybe Starcraftmazter's motives in this aren't entirely honest, hm? Maybe somebody is a bit bitter and trying to slander someone else's good name because of it?

[Starcraftmazter]

Now I have to wonder if maybe Starcraftmazter's motives in this aren't entirely honest, hm? Maybe somebody is a bit bitter and trying to slander someone else's good name because of it?

That's a pretty stupid thing to say, VE was quite fair, and cancelled their treaty with NpO as a result of that incident. Please learn history before making uneducated remarks.

I don't have anything against anyone (except NSO - for their rampant immorality).

Everyone is free to an opinion, and if you think the poll is biased - then it may well be from your perspective. When I was making it, I truly thought it was not - but alas, I don't claim to be perfect.

[deSouza]

That's a pretty stupid thing to say, VE was quite fair, and cancelled their treaty with NpO as a result of that incident. Please learn history before making uneducated remarks.

I don't have anything against anyone (except NSO - for their rampant immorality).

Everyone is free to an opinion, and if you think the poll is biased - then it may well be from your perspective. When I was making it, I truly thought it was not - but alas, I don't claim to be perfect.

You should have tried harder to hide your bias.

I'm afraid everyone can see it.

[OmahaHusker]

Good lord the fake anger and indignation about this is killing me.

[Goldie]

That's a pretty stupid thing to say, VE was quite fair, and cancelled their treaty with NpO as a result of that incident. Please learn history before making uneducated remarks.

I don't have anything against anyone (except NSO - for their rampant immorality).

Everyone is free to an opinion, and if you think the poll is biased - then it may well be from your perspective. When I was making it, I truly thought it was not - but alas, I don't claim to be perfect.

And it was after you did one of the ALL TIME incompetent things that any alliance may have ever done that that incident happened, no?

[Logan]

Voted Dark Fist is incompetent.

[SpacingOutMan]

Everyone is free to an opinion, and if you think the poll is biased - then it may well be from your perspective. When I was making it, I truly thought it was not - but alas, I don't claim to be perfect.

It's not that we think the poll is biased--we know it is. When you create a poll, and perhaps you were not aware of this and that's understandable, the use of adjectives and adverbs usually is frowned upon in surveys like this. "VE blindly following... harassing..." and other gems in your poll answers are weighted to conviction rather than allowing an option for vindication. The questions have to be specific enough to be legible, but at the same time vague enough to not be opinionated and bereft of any inkling of a response or answer.

[deSouza]

Seems like something fox news would pull out tbh

but more blatantly biased

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maybe you should work for fox news.

[LRA KING]

You weigh the poll clearly one way to skew the results when you include 'blindly' in the question. If you cared for the poll results, you would remove your biased adjectives and biased reporting of what happened, and say 'Is VE incompetent for supporting wF?'.

'Harassing those who choose to investivate' is another weighted comment, in that a) it has no bearing on the competence of an alliance to dispute a claim, however truthful it may turn out to be by facts unknown at the time, until the facts corroborating that truth are discovered, and in b ) you imply that VE did not want the facts that disputed the accepted truth to be discovered, which is false. VE is happy to see that the truth came to light, and disappointed that the person we trusted as the source of the information misled us, and backstabbed our allies in wF.

We look forward to the resolution that wF and UED will reach from this, and will stand behind Enrage and World Federation as they seek to rectify this situation. VE's official policy on all matters is to support our allies. That is why they call them allies. Call it 'blindly' if you want, but we take pride in the fact that we will help our allies in their time of need and stand behind them.

Throughout the situation there was no sign that the information that Rajistani was giving wF and VE was anything but the facts. It of course turns out now that that was just not true. The only actions of malice in this whole affair were those of Rajistani, in deliberately misleading his friends, alliance mates, and allies. Did we investigate the link in the screenshot enough, so that we could verify why the link led to that page? No we did not. We trusted Rajistani's explanation that the link must have been deleted or expired. Misplaced trust? Yes. Incompetence? No.

edit: stupid sunglasses.

What better way to say it. \o/

[Bill Wallace]

Seems like something fox news would pull out tbh

but more blatantly biased

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maybe you should work for fox news.

Aww, you had to go there.

Anyways SCM, here's an example of why some of us think your poll questions are biased:

Is VE incompetent for blindly supporting wF and harassing those who choose to investigate, instead of investigating themselves?

That's two questions rolled into one. You don't give the option of possibly agreeing with one and not the other. Instead, you could have maybe did this:

1. Is VE incompetent for supporting their ally, World Federation, in their declaration of war against UED?

2. Should VE have investigated the wF/UED matter further before publicly stating their support for wF?

3. Do you believe members of VE harassed those who asked for more proof or were they just responding to questions and accusations?

Those would have been fair questions.

I also believe the title of your thread shows extreme bias:

wF/VE Competence, Because Impero fails to admit it

You imply to the reader that Impero/VE/wF is incompetent before they even take the poll.

[leprecon]

It has been said plenty, but I will say it again;

This poll is biased and has an overly simplistic view concerning said events.

I have voted null because the third question implies that the VE blindly supported others, harassed others and doesn't think for itself, regardless of what you vote for.