Iotupa Posted November 24, 2009 Report Share Posted November 24, 2009 (edited) In this specific case, no. If payment were made erronously (which is not the case, as Kronos has agreed with at the very least the point outlined in my previous post) then that issue is between TOP and Kronos. The onus is entirely on TOP for not communicating properly with their ally and for breaking their contract with us. I love being right. I don't care if bzelger is gov. of STA or not, I KNEW they wouldn't want to give up their free tech that they received for no logical reason. EDIT: Being that he edited his post after I posted, I will add the disclaimer that it is certainly a possibility that a gov. member may come along and offer the tech back to TOP, but I still certainly don't see it happening. Edited November 24, 2009 by Jonathan Brookbank Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pezstar Posted November 24, 2009 Report Share Posted November 24, 2009 I love being right. I don't care if bzelger is gov. of STA or not, I KNEW they wouldn't want to give up their free tech that they received for no logical reason.EDIT: Being that he edited his post after I posted, I will add the disclaimer that it is certainly a possibility that a gov. member may come along and offer the tech back to TOP, but I still certainly don't see it happening. I'm a government member. I'll answer your question. Kronos admitted in multiple conversations, including the one last night, that they were in the wrong. During the meeting last night, we all agreed that the 300 tech payment was for their wrongdoing. Why in the world would we return the compensation for something that they freely admit they were in the wrong for? If they're able to prove that they didn't refill those war slots, sure. We'll give it back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chasmic Descent Posted November 24, 2009 Report Share Posted November 24, 2009 (edited) edited: Pezstar answered this, thanks. Edited November 24, 2009 by Chasmic Descent Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheEraser Posted November 24, 2009 Report Share Posted November 24, 2009 Tech you didn't deserve. Well said. what a delicious comment coming from TOP.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heft Posted November 24, 2009 Report Share Posted November 24, 2009 Again we have to agree to disagree. Yes sta was looking for a payday, that's not what we are arguing about here, or atleast myself. Yes they got "their payday" but if they were thinking logically and really wanted to end the beef with kronos, they would have checked in with kronos after terms where agreed upon with top. Which points at yes your right. They want a payday. Not acutal reps. If that makes sense. Allies, especially larger, strong allies with more political clout and weight behind them, negotiate on behalf of other allies quite often. This sort of thing isn't uncommon at all and under the circumstances STA's actions were perfectly reasonable. You're arguing a non-point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kindom of Goon Posted November 24, 2009 Report Share Posted November 24, 2009 (edited) Ah gotcha, well truth be told that would not end it. Kronos could come off feeling short sided because they didn't want/deserve to pay reps. In the end, like auctor pointed out. This wasn't resoultion talks, it was how can we get a payday talk. Which is why they didn't ok it with Kronos. Btw not saying kronos came off feeling that way at all. This depends on what your idea of a resolution is, to become friends afterward or to simply avoid war. If its the former then I see your point, but that's unrealistic for any situation similar to this one. If it's the latter (which it is in 99% of these cases) then how the other side feel about it isn't going to be of too much concern. Edited November 24, 2009 by Kindom of Goon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrSonny Posted November 24, 2009 Report Share Posted November 24, 2009 I'm a government member. I'll answer your question.Kronos admitted in multiple conversations, including the one last night, that they were in the wrong. During the meeting last night, we all agreed that the 300 tech payment was for their wrongdoing. Why in the world would we return the compensation for something that they freely admit they were in the wrong for? If they're able to prove that they didn't refill those war slots, sure. We'll give it back. Alright well I agree that kronos should have let you have the slots out of the great goodness of their hearts. But I don't see those slots as entitled to STA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Masterof9puppets Posted November 24, 2009 Report Share Posted November 24, 2009 (edited) I'm a government member. I'll answer your question.Kronos admitted in multiple conversations, including the one last night, that they were in the wrong. During the meeting last night, we all agreed that the 300 tech payment was for their wrongdoing. Why in the world would we return the compensation for something that they freely admit they were in the wrong for? If they're able to prove that they didn't refill those war slots, sure. We'll give it back. Well, the 600 tech reps was being asked because Kronos "colluded with rogues to inflict maximum damage upon STA", suggesting that we were doing everything we could to beat down some tigers. The 300 tech, mistakenly sent, would not have been sent if it was not by mistake but as Kronos is admitting that we were in the wrong at least in the one point it is being stated as compensation for our mistake in redeclaring upon Heracles. It would not have been sent if not for the miscommunication between Kronos and TOP, as we do not particularly feel that you deserve it. What's done is done. Edited November 24, 2009 by Masterof9puppets Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iotupa Posted November 24, 2009 Report Share Posted November 24, 2009 what a delicious comment coming from TOP.... Honestly, this isn't something I really want to jump too deep into (partially because I agree that TOP has received tech/reps they haven't deserved at one point or another), but NpO isn't exactly innocent of this crime either. They've certainly received things they didn't deserve as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iotupa Posted November 24, 2009 Report Share Posted November 24, 2009 (edited) I'm a government member. I'll answer your question.Kronos admitted in multiple conversations, including the one last night, that they were in the wrong. During the meeting last night, we all agreed that the 300 tech payment was for their wrongdoing. Why in the world would we return the compensation for something that they freely admit they were in the wrong for? If they're able to prove that they didn't refill those war slots, sure. We'll give it back. I actually got a bit of an explanation from an ally of yours on this very subject before I saw your reply. While the situation may be "fishy," it certainly does not entitle you to any reps. That's just silly. EDIT: Oops, two in a row. Edited November 24, 2009 by Jonathan Brookbank Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pezstar Posted November 24, 2009 Report Share Posted November 24, 2009 I actually got a bit of an explanation from an ally of yours on this very subject before I saw your reply. While the situation may be "fishy," it certainly does not entitle you to any reps. That's just silly.EDIT: Oops, two in a row. You are, as always, entitled to your opinion. You and I almost always see eye to eye. We don't this time. It happens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrSonny Posted November 24, 2009 Report Share Posted November 24, 2009 This depends on what your idea of a resolution is, to become friends afterward or to simply avoid war. If its the former then I see your point, but that's unrealistic for any situation similar to this one. If it's the latter (which it is in 99% of these cases) then how the other side feel about it isn't going to be of too much concern. Exactly sta was just looking to come out "ahead". I just feel like everyone could have done a better job here. And I'm sure Kronos feels like they had one pulled over their head, and I'm sure sta is more then happy with the 300 tech. People say I'm arguing a non-point, but I'm just asking for decent terms and actions to happen in and on Planet Bob. I will not even get into the fact that I think that kronos was not even in the wrong here. Once again congrats STA on grabbing up yhe free tech Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iotupa Posted November 24, 2009 Report Share Posted November 24, 2009 You are, as always, entitled to your opinion. You and I almost always see eye to eye. We don't this time. It happens. I suppose it had to happen eventually. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpiderJerusalem Posted November 24, 2009 Report Share Posted November 24, 2009 If you're a member of TOP reading this, shut up and get out.Lots of love, Your fellow brother, SomeGuy. How deliciously convenient. I guess no one will answer my question about TOP accepting reparations they didn't deserve then? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iotupa Posted November 24, 2009 Report Share Posted November 24, 2009 (edited) How deliciously convenient.I guess no one will answer my question about TOP accepting reparations they didn't deserve then? If you look back, I responded to someone whom I believe you are in the same alliance as (I think you're in NpO), on this very topic. I'm not even in TOP and I could answer it. For your convenience, I shall give you a brief repeat of the previous response. Both TOP and NpO are guilty of receiving things they should not have received in the past. It really makes no sense to me that NpO members would be calling TOP out on this. EDIT: Of course, you could always ignore me. I haven't been around for over three years or anything, having watched both of these alliances due to being allies with them in the past... Edited November 24, 2009 by Jonathan Brookbank Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpiderJerusalem Posted November 24, 2009 Report Share Posted November 24, 2009 If you look back, I responded to someone whom I believe you are in the same alliance as (I think you're in NpO), on this very topic. I'm not even in TOP and I could answer it. For your convenience, I shall give you a brief repeat of the previous response.Both TOP and NpO are guilty of receiving things they should not have received in the past. It really makes no sense to me that NpO members would be calling TOP out on this. Well, then you might want to check my AA because you are wrong. Not that I say that all reps RoK have accepted are fair, but the answer Feanor produced was just so ironic I had to comment. And it was not NpO I was referring to, it was GPA. But, the question have been answered in private by a TOP member though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vilien Posted November 24, 2009 Report Share Posted November 24, 2009 I can't believe that people were actually petty enough to think that a massive war might have started over this. I'm very relieved that this got worked out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iotupa Posted November 24, 2009 Report Share Posted November 24, 2009 Well, then you might want to check my AA because you are wrong. Not that I say that all reps RoK have accepted are fair, but the answer Feanor produced was just so ironic I had to comment. And it was not NpO I was referring to, it was GPA.But, the question have been answered in private by a TOP member though Oh, that's alright, I just saw the little NpO thing under your title, assumed you wouldn't be flying it if you weren't a member. In the end it applies to pretty much every alliance around, they've all taken something they didn't deserve at one point or another. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penguin Posted November 24, 2009 Report Share Posted November 24, 2009 (edited) If you look back, I responded to someone whom I believe you are in the same alliance as (I think you're in NpO), on this very topic. I'm not even in TOP and I could answer it. For your convenience, I shall give you a brief repeat of the previous response.Both TOP and NpO are guilty of receiving things they should not have received in the past. It really makes no sense to me that NpO members would be calling TOP out on this. We've answered for plenty of mistakes, but as far as scale is concerned Polaris has never accepted heavy reparations payments, at least not while I've been here. That said, you should think about what you're doing to the state of public discourse before you use mistakes made long before most of our members were even born in order to keep them from expressing their opinions. That same advice goes for elborrador as well. Edited November 24, 2009 by Penguin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iotupa Posted November 24, 2009 Report Share Posted November 24, 2009 We've answered for plenty of mistakes, but as far as scale is concerned Polaris has never accepted heavy reparations payments, at least not while I've been here. That said, you should think about what you're doing to the state of public discourse before you use mistakes made long before most of our members were even born in order to keep them from expressing their opinions. That same advice goes for elborrador as well. Oh, I most certainly agree with you. I was just using that as an example as to why NO ONE should be saying anything like that. Every alliance is guilty of it at some point or another, so it's silly for all of these pots to be calling all of these kettles black. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penguin Posted November 24, 2009 Report Share Posted November 24, 2009 Oh, I most certainly agree with you. I was just using that as an example as to why NO ONE should be saying anything like that. Every alliance is guilty of it at some point or another, so it's silly for all of these pots to be calling all of these kettles black. Whilst repeating the mistake was probably not the best way to convey that point, I suppose there's nothing left to argue about here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archon Posted November 24, 2009 Report Share Posted November 24, 2009 How deliciously convenient.I guess no one will answer my question about TOP accepting reparations they didn't deserve then? You could always try contacting them in private. Personally, I'm happy to see them taking measure to not further incite the masses and fan the flames. I know MK has recommended doing similar things in certain threads. Barring the misstep of Joe Stupid, this was a private matter from beginning to end, and judging from the reactions to the various exposures it is ill suited for the public domain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iotupa Posted November 24, 2009 Report Share Posted November 24, 2009 You could always try contacting them in private. Personally, I'm happy to see them taking measure to not further incite the masses and fan the flames. I know MK has recommended doing similar things in certain threads. Barring the misstep of Joe Stupid, this was a private matter from beginning to end, and judging from the reactions to the various exposures it is ill suited for the public domain. Was this guy actually named Joe Stupid or is this just a rather hilarious nickname everyone has adopted? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pezstar Posted November 24, 2009 Report Share Posted November 24, 2009 Was this guy actually named Joe Stupid or is this just a rather hilarious nickname everyone has adopted? Even more hilariously, that's his name. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archon Posted November 24, 2009 Report Share Posted November 24, 2009 Was this guy actually named Joe Stupid or is this just a rather hilarious nickname everyone has adopted? He actually was. It was so appropriate that at first I didn't actually believe it to be a real account. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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