Fallen Fool Posted November 14, 2009 Report Share Posted November 14, 2009 NpO being hypocrites doesn't mean everyone who opposes this is.Hardly.Actually, that's pretty much why they did it. RAD was smaller than them.Except RAD fired the first shot. So yeah, it's pretty much not what they did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mathias Posted November 14, 2009 Report Share Posted November 14, 2009 You are plumbing the depths of being an NPO supporter pre-Karma. No, because then I would be supporting unjustified alliance-wide wars. This is a tech raid. The justification for a tech raid is tech (or land or whatever you're trying to pillage). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fyfe XIV Posted November 14, 2009 Report Share Posted November 14, 2009 Ahhh Athens is my new favorite alliance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yevgeni Luchenkov Posted November 14, 2009 Report Share Posted November 14, 2009 IS performed bombing runs etc, which is why people were so outraged. This is a tech raid, two ground attacks and then peace. Athens has always tech raided, this is no different. You mean 4, as per your updated charter, no? Also, when was it updated, I'm curious? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason8 Posted November 14, 2009 Report Share Posted November 14, 2009 Why would Athens tech raid TOP? Telling them to attack a larger, well connected alliance is retarded. Of course they're not going to put their alliance at risk. Why in the hell would they do that? I don't get this entire thread. Everyone's getting all hypothetical and "OMG THEY WOULDN'T BE ALL TOUGH IF THEY'D HIT THE #1 ALLIANCE IN THE GAME!" Of course not. They wouldn't do that, either. The whole point of a tech raid is to profit. Attacking someone bigger than them would severely limit the profit that could be had from warring. Everyone says that tech raiders have thick skulls... I think this thread shows it's quite possibly the other way around, with raiders being the most logical players in the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arrnea Posted November 14, 2009 Report Share Posted November 14, 2009 (edited) Which is basically the "Might Makes Right" mentality. Oh I just love this community! So do I. Wars rage, but the community doesn't change. (For the record I was being sarcastic towards the point, thus my use of an exclamation mark in brackets.) Edited November 14, 2009 by Arrnea Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D34th Posted November 14, 2009 Report Share Posted November 14, 2009 I don't get how Athens is guilty of any crimes. It seems that all these people defended NSO when they attacked RAD. How thick was that CB? Yes, RAD took it. No, we didn't cry. We took our lumps because we knew that if we did anything but that our allies would get destroyed. Where was the NpO brigade when their ally was doing almost exactly what Athens is doing here? If I remember correctly RAD asked to be attacked, can you please, link me where Knights of Ni! asked to be attacked? And if I open the thread were NSO recognizes that state of war with RAD will not I find a post of you or your alliance disagreeing of it? Are you sure? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buds The Man Posted November 14, 2009 Report Share Posted November 14, 2009 It's not might makes right, it's basic politics. Correct me if I'm wrong, but one of the benefits of being in an alliance is protection (from raids amongst other things). If you cannot provide your members with this, in what sense are you an alliance? Look this is a raid I get it. They are not tied anywhere or at least not tied well enough to have a security blanket. This move right here is why people say they hate Valhalla so badly . Now I can only speak of my knowledge since ive been in Valhalla but never has a raid been approved on an AA of this size. Athens saw an oppurtunity to hit them and they took it. !@#$ty move IMO but hey there is nothing atm that they can do about it. But to try and justify it as ok after all the BS about how evil this type of action was is nothing short of laughable. Does this make Athens the New NPO no not even close but should it make people wonder a bit about what Athens is really all about? I think so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Diorno Posted November 14, 2009 Report Share Posted November 14, 2009 You mean 4, as per your updated charter, no?Also, when was it updated, I'm curious? Athens determined a tech raid was legal on nations wearing any AA under 10 members, and it was updated weeks ago, I don't have an exact date. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neo Uruk Posted November 14, 2009 Report Share Posted November 14, 2009 If I remember correctly RAD asked to be attacked, can you please, link me where Knights of Ni! asked to be attacked? And if I open the thread were NSO recognizes that state of war with RAD will not I find a post of you or your alliance disagreeing of it? Are you sure? I'm fairly sure RAD engaged in friendly duels with various members of alliances. The only mistake RAD made was trusting a member of NSO. We disagreed with the CB, but we decided it was best to just walk with our heads held high through the situation. Penkala: I think you were supporting RAD before. I love how you flop so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kim Jaym Il Posted November 14, 2009 Report Share Posted November 14, 2009 It's not might makes right, it's basic politics. Correct me if I'm wrong, but one of the benefits of being in an alliance is protection (from raids amongst other things). If you cannot provide your members with this, in what sense are you an alliance? By this logic, the Continuum - GPA war was completely justified. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Il Impero Romano Posted November 14, 2009 Report Share Posted November 14, 2009 (edited) NpO being hypocrites doesn't mean everyone who opposes this is. To be fair, I don't think it matters if anyone who sees a problem with this is hypocritical or not, opinions are opinions and the question of whether or not some are just saying things in an attempt to paint a certain picture is a topic for another time. The issue with particular stances comes in when someone says something like "this isn't as bad as what you did" or "what a brave new world". Fact of the matter is yes, this is basically as bad (in principal, not scale) and yes, the outcry here does prove the global attitude has made some permanent changes for the better after the Karma war. The people who are just saying variations of those two lines on both sides of the argument will do nothing but turn this thread into the same tired debate we have all had a thousand times. Edited November 14, 2009 by Il Impero Romano Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sulmar Posted November 14, 2009 Report Share Posted November 14, 2009 This is sad. I don't really see the point of going to the effort of organizing such a blitz on a smaller alliance except to try and make some needless drama in CN. I guess Mission Accomplished. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mushi Posted November 14, 2009 Report Share Posted November 14, 2009 If I remember correctly RAD asked to be attacked, can you please, link me where Knights of Ni! asked to be attacked? And if I open the thread were NSO recognizes that state of war with RAD will not I find a post of you or your alliance disagreeing of it? Are you sure? NSO wasnt innocent, RAD were joking and NSo knew that, and made a huge deal out of it. Looking back on it, we should have attacked NSO over it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enderland Posted November 14, 2009 Report Share Posted November 14, 2009 This is a brilliant political (???) move. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fallen Fool Posted November 14, 2009 Report Share Posted November 14, 2009 I'm fairly sure RAD engaged in friendly duels with various members of alliances. The only mistake RAD made was trusting a member of NSO. We disagreed with the CB, but we decided it was best to just walk with our heads held high through the situation.Penkala: I think you were supporting RAD before. I love how you flop so. Rightly. "Friendly duels." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fyfe XIV Posted November 14, 2009 Report Share Posted November 14, 2009 This is sad. I don't really see the point of going to the effort of organizing such a blitz on a smaller alliance except to try and make some needless drama in CN. I guess Mission Accomplished. Do you get bored sometimes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shinpah Posted November 14, 2009 Report Share Posted November 14, 2009 (edited) Wait what, are you seriously suggesting that government members of an alliance can attack other nations and yet the alliance itself doesn't have to be held responsible. That is a really, really poor argument. I'm suggesting that members of our alliance who raid do so at their own risk and would not either call in for back up nor would expect to do so if we were retaliated upon. If KoN wishes to attack our alliance as a whole then they can expect retaliation of the kind, perhaps And you are right to be uncertain: if KofN hits back against the raiders, you can bet your bottom dollar those raiders will be getting some backup, be it in the form of more nations joining the fray or otherwise. Posturing aside, I would hope that the cyberverse would not be so hasty to see this coordinated tech raid as a reason to start some moral crusade against FoB or Athens. This is sad. I don't really see the point of going to the effort of organizing such a blitz on a smaller alliance except to try and make some needless drama in CN. I guess Mission Accomplished. Tech EDIT: (3:08:20 AM) mushi: Shinpah[FoB] we wanted land not tech (3:08:25 AM) Shinpah[FoB]: :| (3:08:26 AM) mushi: you doing it wrong (3:08:27 AM) Shinpah[FoB]: fine Edited November 14, 2009 by Shinpah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neo Uruk Posted November 14, 2009 Report Share Posted November 14, 2009 (edited) This is sad. I don't really see the point of going to the effort of organizing such a blitz on a smaller alliance except to try and make some needless drama in CN. I guess Mission Accomplished. It's all about profit. That's why a lot of people build nations, you know. Rightly. "Friendly duels." Please, ask Srqt exactly how vicious RAD was in attacking his nation. Edited November 14, 2009 by Unavailable Contact Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fallen Fool Posted November 14, 2009 Report Share Posted November 14, 2009 NSO wasnt innocent, RAD were joking and NSo knew that, and made a huge deal out of it. Looking back on it, we should have attacked NSO over it.If it makes you feel any better, I really wish PC had too! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D34th Posted November 14, 2009 Report Share Posted November 14, 2009 (edited) I'm fairly sure RAD engaged in friendly duels with various members of alliances. The only mistake RAD made was trusting a member of NSO. We disagreed with the CB, but we decided it was best to just walk with our heads held high through the situation.Penkala: I think you were supporting RAD before. I love how you flop so. Can you show to me via link or logs where NSO agreed on duels? Oh and you disagree? But still trying to defend Athens in a much worse situation? Edited November 14, 2009 by D34th Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogeWilliam Posted November 14, 2009 Report Share Posted November 14, 2009 Now if only FOK or anyone for that matter were doing a tech deal with a KofN member. We could see fireworks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason8 Posted November 14, 2009 Report Share Posted November 14, 2009 (edited) If I remember correctly RAD asked to be attacked, can you please, link me where Knights of Ni! asked to be attacked? And if I open the thread were NSO recognizes that state of war with RAD will not I find a post of you or your alliance disagreeing of it? Are you sure? You don't remember correctly. NSO asked to be attacked and decided to jump down RAD's throat when I actually took Anthony up on the offer. It's funny how history is already being rewritten... Can you show to me via link or logs where NSO agreed on duels? Oh and you disagree? But still trying to defend Athens in a much worse situation? It was in a thread on these forums. Take my word for it or go find it yourself. Edited November 14, 2009 by Jason8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enderland Posted November 14, 2009 Report Share Posted November 14, 2009 (edited) Posturing aside, I would hope that the cyberverse would not be so hasty to see this coordinated tech raid as a reason to start some moral crusade against FoB or Athens. I think your hope will be shattered Edited November 14, 2009 by ender land Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Desperado Posted November 14, 2009 Report Share Posted November 14, 2009 I'm suggesting that members of our alliance who raid do so at their own risk and would not either call in for back up nor would expect to do so if we were retaliated upon. If KoN wishes to attack our alliance as a whole then they can expect retaliation of the kind, perhaps Posturing aside, I would hope that the cyberverse would not be so hasty to see this coordinated tech raid as a reason to start some moral crusade against FoB or Athens. Tech Tech? Only Tech?! What about the land! What about the casualties?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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