Ejayrazz Posted October 27, 2009 Report Share Posted October 27, 2009 I didn't betray MCXA as a whole, I tried to move them away from NPO, which I believed was in their interests because I thought NPO would attack us at some point in the future, when it became convenient. You acted against what your alliance wished as a whole. If it was such a huge issue with all the members, surely MCXA would have done something about it. You secretly leaked sensitive material and went behind your fellow leaders' backs. What is it called? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Schumacher Posted October 27, 2009 Report Share Posted October 27, 2009 I didn't betray MCXA as a whole. I just gave their secrets to Vox. That's not betrayal, that's liberation. Fixed that one also. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magicninja Posted October 27, 2009 Report Share Posted October 27, 2009 So who is winning this war and propaganda campaign anyway? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francesca Posted October 27, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 27, 2009 You acted against what your alliance wished as a whole. If it was such a huge issue with all the members, surely MCXA would have done something about it. You secretly leaked sensitive material and went behind your fellow leaders' backs.What is it called? But that's not true: in general, the active membership were not pro-NPO, and certainly not anti-democracy like TSO or the pro-NPO members. And MCXA did do something about it: we protested, and campaigned, and hence TSO left. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jyrinx Posted October 27, 2009 Report Share Posted October 27, 2009 This thread is not about whether I spied on MCXA or not. OOC: Yes it is; you demand an apology for MCXA. Your conduct while in MCXA is totally fair game and still on-topic IC: I find your demand for an apology to be amusing actually. Who exactly are you to demand an apology for MCXA? Does MCXA want an apology from TSO? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormsend Posted October 27, 2009 Report Share Posted October 27, 2009 God speed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheEraser Posted October 27, 2009 Report Share Posted October 27, 2009 (edited) You acted against what your alliance wished as a whole. If it was such a huge issue with all the members, surely MCXA would have done something about it. You secretly leaked sensitive material and went behind your fellow leaders' backs.What is it called? isn't this basically what TSO did? except for the leaking of information? I mean the figure heads of MCXA plotted behind its own alliances back to create an alliance of its own, actively recruited from within the ranks of MCXA, and then didn't even had the courage to wait until the next elections were held. They purposefully and deliberately abandoned MCXA in an attempt to destabilize and weaken the alliance b/c the old line about you made your bed now lie in it comes to mind... note: i'm not condoning what Fran did but imo what TSO did was far worse, especially when you look at their history of being back stabbing pathetic allies. OOC: Yes it is; you demand an apology for MCXA. Your conduct while in MCXA is totally fair game and still on-topicIC: I find your demand for an apology to be amusing actually. Who exactly are you to demand an apology for MCXA? Does MCXA want an apology from TSO? i believe MCXA decided to take TSO's blood money instead. Edited October 27, 2009 by elborrador Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francesca Posted October 27, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 27, 2009 IC: I find your demand for an apology to be amusing actually. Who exactly are you to demand an apology for MCXA? Does MCXA want an apology from TSO? I'm the former Minister of Foreign Affairs, a person who was personally betrayed by TSO's actions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Boris Posted October 27, 2009 Report Share Posted October 27, 2009 So who is winning this war and propaganda campaign anyway? I never thought I'd say this, but I think this is one fight where TSO actually has a popularity edge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ejayrazz Posted October 27, 2009 Report Share Posted October 27, 2009 But that's not true: in general, the active membership were not pro-NPO, and certainly not anti-democracy like TSO or the pro-NPO members. And MCXA did do something about it: we protested, and campaigned, and hence TSO left. There are right ways and moronic ways. Whether you disliked them or not, they were still part of your alliance. If a clear majority was accepting your views, something would have been done. If the alliance, for some technical reason, doesn't follow suit -- it's the alliance's government which is the problem. This can be fixed internally if people felt the same as you did, which you're saying many and many of them did. Therefore, this could have been handled in a more fitting way, not that requiring the betrayal of your allies (In terms of individual nations/members of your alliance) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supercoolyellow Posted October 27, 2009 Report Share Posted October 27, 2009 A few months after that, they abandoned their own alliance, the Multicolored Cross-X Alliance Kinda like you abandoned MCXA for Vox? But in your defense it was only after spying on MCXA and being generally divisive to the alliance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coursca Posted October 27, 2009 Report Share Posted October 27, 2009 So that's why your nations suck so much you have to call in your allies to help you deal with two opponents? ...must...resist...urge...to... ...BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA... Oh lawdy, I'm sorry...I couldn't resist. (OOC: You made me laugh out loud after just having my appendix out...OWWWWWWWWWWWWWW.... ) That's what happens when you nip at somebody's heels. But you knew that. Good luck with this, but I think you seriously overestimate your political capital here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Schumacher Posted October 27, 2009 Report Share Posted October 27, 2009 I'm the former Minister of Foreign Affairs, a person who was personally betrayed by TSO's actions. That was then...do not pretend to speak for us now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Pansy Posted October 27, 2009 Report Share Posted October 27, 2009 I'm the former Minister of Foreign Affairs, a person who was personally betrayed by TSO's actions. Question: Were you still in MCXA when they left? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francesca Posted October 27, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 27, 2009 There are right ways and moronic ways.Whether you disliked them or not, they were still part of your alliance. If a clear majority was accepting your views, something would have been done. If the alliance, for some technical reason, doesn't follow suit -- it's the alliance's government which is the problem. This can be fixed internally if people felt the same as you did, which you're saying many and many of them did. Therefore, this could have been handled in a more fitting way, not that requiring the betrayal of your allies (In terms of individual nations/members of your alliance) I tried very, very hard to do things conventionally. After all my efforts failed, I was forced to act as I did, or leave the alliance, which was not an option, because I knew without people like me and NC the alliance would collapse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francesca Posted October 27, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 27, 2009 Question: Were you still in MCXA when they left? Yes, I was. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jyrinx Posted October 27, 2009 Report Share Posted October 27, 2009 (edited) I'm the former Minister of Foreign Affairs, a person who was personally betrayed by TSO's actions. (emphasis mine). Look, you don't like TSO and love attention. That's fine, have fun attacking them. But claiming a moral high ground that you're actually doing this for those poor oppressed people in MCXA is nonsense. MCXA isn't a child, they can speak for themselves and it appears from the government statements here that they don't support you. You can claim it's all a conspiracy; that the membership of MCXA actually does support you and are being silenced by Gopherbashi et al but that's just ridiculous. Edited October 27, 2009 by Jyrinx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
draggie Posted October 27, 2009 Report Share Posted October 27, 2009 I tried very, very hard to do things conventionally. After all my efforts failed, I was forced to act as I did, or leave the alliance, which was not an option, because I knew without people like me and NC the alliance would collapse. I think you are overestimating your worth. Obviously we have not collapsed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ejayrazz Posted October 27, 2009 Report Share Posted October 27, 2009 isn't this basically what TSO did? except for the leaking of information? I mean the figure heads of MCXA plotted behind its own alliances back to create an alliance of its own, actively recruited from within the ranks of MCXA, and then didn't even had the courage to wait until the next elections were held. They purposefully and deliberately abandoned MCXA in an attempt to destabilize and weaken the alliance b/c the old line about you made your bed now lie in it comes to mind...note: i'm not condoning what Fran did but imo what TSO did was far worse, especially when you look at their history of being back stabbing pathetic allies. I believe nearly all alliances which are formed begin their beginning stages in an alliance and talk to their friends about possibly joining if they feel the same disbelief in an alliance crumbling internally. Seriously, this has happened dozens of times. But no one explicitly took information and leaked it to an enemy. I find Fran's actions more severe, however I don't care too much about TSO's situation right now..they know things could have gone a little smoother, but none of them did what Fran did. This isn't about who is worse, this is about Fran betraying MCXA then attacking someone for betraying MCXA. If I am a woman beater, I wont beat another woman beater up for beating women. See the hypocrisy? That's all I am touching basis on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Pansy Posted October 27, 2009 Report Share Posted October 27, 2009 because I knew without people like me and NC the alliance would collapse. RIP MCXA We miss you so. Oh .... they are still here Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Big Bad Posted October 27, 2009 Report Share Posted October 27, 2009 I never thought I'd say this, but I think this is one fight where TSO actually has a popularity edge. I agree, pretty much anyone else could have attacked them and got a round of cheers. In this case its a good sign you may have been doing things very very wrong when you are getting jeers instead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ejayrazz Posted October 27, 2009 Report Share Posted October 27, 2009 I tried very, very hard to do things conventionally. After all my efforts failed, I was forced to act as I did, or leave the alliance, which was not an option, because I knew without people like me and NC the alliance would collapse. Yet it is doing fine these days, some even saying they are doing better internally than before? Leaving was an option, it was a perfect option..you chose the wrong one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Kremlin Posted October 27, 2009 Report Share Posted October 27, 2009 I tried very, very hard to do things conventionally. After all my efforts failed, I was forced to act as I did, or leave the alliance, which was not an option, because I knew without people like me and NC the alliance would collapse. If they didn't work conventionally it's probably because people didn't agree with you. That's how democracy works, but you put your own beliefs ahead of your alliance's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hizzy Posted October 27, 2009 Report Share Posted October 27, 2009 Also the MCXA is still alive and well and I personally don't think leaving an alliance you no longer like is "abandoning" it. No one should be forced to stay in an alliance with policies and direction that person doesn't feel in track with. that seems like a pretty retarded thing to say when you consider that the group that formed TSO made up most of MCXA's .gov Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Puppet Master Posted October 27, 2009 Report Share Posted October 27, 2009 "You don't deserve a goodbye" Oh man, I wish I could be this hardcore. When you have not brought anything but pain and headaches to people you don't deserve a goodbye. Also i am bringing hardcore back into style, didn't you know? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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