Yay Mets and Francesca versus The Sweet Oblivion: Declaration of War

[The AUT]

ITT: People claim the noCB war was a step towards freedom and that Citadel stood for the little guy.

Dearly noted. AJ was right about you guys, you're nothing but stats. That's all you are.

Who're you and why should we give a damn about you and your opinions?

He posted in a public forum to a public thread. You can't expect everyone to side with you, Francesca.

Edited October 29, 2009 by The AUT

[Feanor Noldorin]

ITT: People claim the noCB war was a step towards freedom and that Citadel stood for the little guy.

Dearly noted. AJ was right about you guys, you're nothing but stats. That's all you are.

(Out of Costume)

Friends come and go but Stats are forever.

[kencojenko]

Who're you and why should we give a damn about you and your opinions?

I feel the same each time i read a topic you create.

Edited October 29, 2009 by kencojenko

[Timberland]

ITT: People claim the noCB war was a step towards freedom and that Citadel stood for the little guy.

Dearly noted. AJ was right about you guys, you're nothing but stats. That's all you are.

Is there a list on the owf or somewhere to what AJ has predicted ? If so can I have a link to those said list. He seems to predict alot of things but I havn't seen any of those predictions.

[ponken]

(Out of Costume)

Friends come and go but Stats are forever.

I'm gonna sue you

[Bryne Farrior]

As I read, I keep conjuring up this image of a noisy, buzzing fly performing a kamikaze attack against an excitable horse.

[hizzy]

Yeah, listen, Hizzy, this is pretty much the one big thing we disagree on. Polar was rolling people just as much as NPO was, and threatening people for speaking their mind quite a bit too (including myself). NpO rolled people all the time for the flimsiest CBs too. NpO had no problem keeping people in eternal war, for no reasons. You were nearly as bad as NPO and the world is a better place now that the old NpO attitude no longer exists and now that NpO doesn't do some of the things it used to. Plus, the war showed that banding together you *can* overcome a large bloc who has been rolling people left and right and gave a lot of people a lot more courage.

Edit: and Kingzog's right, it also created Vox, but no, that wasn't what I was getting at.

Yes, clearly changing the position of NpO from: "we support keeping FAN in permanent war, we support rolling alliances, we support curbstomps, and we don't give a &^% what the world thinks, do something about it or shut up" sure was a step back for freedom.

Here's my main problem with what you guys use as "justification" (this is both to you, Penk, and Sigrun);

One of your claims is that Sponge was bullying people around, and that now Grub is amazing etc etc. Incidentally, I agree with you.

However the biggest crack in your logic is that Polaris had already de-throned ES before the war. Grub was already in power, and that whole attitude change that you guys are praising had already happened. The only thing you got out of war was to relieve some blue balls and apply some !@#$%^& terms to force other people out of government, including an attempt by NPO to coup Grub in favour of a spy, which failed, thus making the rest of it pointless. Everyone already knows this, it's been admitted, and it's done. So, claiming that you changed Polaris' attitude through war is a load of crap, because the attitude had already changed.

Second; Polaris keeping FAN in permanent war? Again, agreed. As long as you ignore the fact that it was a One Vision operation... who you all gladly teamed up with. Unless you want to claim that Polaris was pulling the strings on One Vision?

[kingzog]

Polar was rolling people just as much as NPO was, and threatening people for speaking their mind quite a bit too (including myself).

You're right. Absolutely bang-on....

But, and I think this may be our point of departure, in the eyes of of a few -- eventually many, finally most (I believe) -- the New Pacific Order killed its brother. It was an astounding thing, and to those of us who knew (first-hand) that it was happening, it was horrifying. Speak to....well, the names of the others are well-known.

Now, to haul this back on-topic, I think this is why many should not be surprised that ex-Voxian Francesca, the same one who later joined the New Pacific Order and within a day would have become its hagiographer, has now gone off the deep end and declared war on an alliance.

Look, I've no love for TSO. I've no hate for them, either. So I've nothing at stake in a discussion about this conflict except as a dispassionate observer who finds this all very odd and perhaps a little bit mad.

I therefore declare this The Eccentric War.

(Ain't I polite? Beats War of the Weird or War of the WTF?.)

[hizzy]

well tbqh I don't think wars deserve an official name if it's this minor.

Next thing we know people will be giving official names to every rogue who attacks NPO.... although !@#$... haven't seen one of those in ages....

[kingzog]

well tbqh I don't think wars deserve an official name if it's this minor.

Next thing we know people will be giving official names to every rogue who attacks NPO.... although !@#$... haven't seen one of those in ages....

You are "He Who Rejects Names."

/me does a rain dance

[D34th]

I miss what a topic about Francesca attacking TSO has to do with Polaris and SPW war.

[hizzy]

I miss what a topic about Francesca attacking TSO has to do with Polaris and SPW war.

Well in a way everything you see today is a direct result of that war. You are free to read the forums and collect taxes because Polaris was toppled as a first step to restoring peace and order throughout the worl -- nay, THE UNIVERSE!

[kingzog]

I miss what a topic about Francesca attacking TSO has to do with Polaris and SPW war.

You and me both.

[Stonewall14]

Your a joke...

[D34th]

Well in a way everything you see today is a direct result of that war. You are free to read the forums and collect taxes because Polaris was toppled as a first step to restoring peace and order throughout the worl -- nay, THE UNIVERSE!

I mean, aside that, of course

[Blue Lightning]

ITT: People claim the noCB war was a step towards freedom and that Citadel stood for the little guy.

No one has claimed we did it to stick up for "the little guy", unless you consider us and our allies the little guy. We've consistently explained that TOP's motivation for the war was to remove what we perceived to be an imminent threat to our existance. Polaris had a reputation for aggressively attacking people for spurious reasons and, when they then threatened and publicly baited us and our allies over a long period of time, it seemed logical to think that we might be next on their target list. So we intervened and, with the help of many others who had their own reasons, attacked Polaris pre-emptively.

So no, we weren't trying to free the world from tyranny, we were looking out for ourselves and our allies. However, it certainly does seem that the Polaris we see today is, in large part, a bi-product of the coalition's intervention during that period. No, we deserve no credit for it, nor do we claim such, it was their work entirely that brought them where they are. All we did was force change in the first place, whether that change would be for the better or for the worse was entirely up to them.

Dearly noted. AJ was right about you guys, you're nothing but stats. That's all you are.

At least we have those.

[King Srqt]

ITT: People claim the noCB war was a step towards freedom and that Citadel stood for the little guy.

To be fair, without the noCB war there would have been no Karma war and most likely would not have been enough support to take down NPO and the rest of Q.

That is not to say that the intent of the noCB war was anything but to kill polar due to a grudge but it was the first step toward the downfall of the "hegemony"

[Penkala]

Here's my main problem with what you guys use as "justification" (this is both to you, Penk, and Sigrun);

One of your claims is that Sponge was bullying people around, and that now Grub is amazing etc etc. Incidentally, I agree with you.

However the biggest crack in your logic is that Polaris had already de-throned ES before the war. Grub was already in power, and that whole attitude change that you guys are praising had already happened. The only thing you got out of war was to relieve some blue balls and apply some !@#$%^& terms to force other people out of government, including an attempt by NPO to coup Grub in favour of a spy, which failed, thus making the rest of it pointless. Everyone already knows this, it's been admitted, and it's done. So, claiming that you changed Polaris' attitude through war is a load of crap, because the attitude had already changed.

Second; Polaris keeping FAN in permanent war? Again, agreed. As long as you ignore the fact that it was a One Vision operation... who you all gladly teamed up with. Unless you want to claim that Polaris was pulling the strings on One Vision?

Quite frankly, the worry was that if the pressure was taken off the old MOs would come right back. We wanted you to feel what it felt like to be beaten down so that you'd never do it to anybody for crappy reasons again.

Second; Polaris keeping FAN in permanent war? Again, agreed. As long as you ignore the fact that it was a One Vision operation... who you all gladly teamed up with. Unless you want to claim that Polaris was pulling the strings on One Vision?

Well, yeah, we did. But when we had the ability to stop it, we did that to. Before that point, frankly, there was nothing we could do realistically.

But, and I think this may be our point of departure, in the eyes of of a few -- eventually many, finally most (I believe) -- the New Pacific Order killed its brother. It was an astounding thing, and to those of us who knew (first-hand) that it was happening, it was horrifying. Speak to....well, the names of the others are well-known.

Completely agreed. I can see how you felt that way, and indeed, NPO threw its brother to the wolves.

Francesca, any chance you're keeping some nice stats with this one? Mind posting what stats you have so far (if any)?

Edited October 30, 2009 by Penkala

[TheEraser]

Thank you elborrador for that wonderful account of things.

TSO was not, nor have they ever been in a position to "bail" on Polaris sine it's inception, to be factual. The statement in itself is certainly false.

(btw - I do know the truth regarding this, and there is much there that would need to be corrected. Not in this thread, or any other thread will that be forthcoming, at this time.)

your reading comprehension is failing you. I'd suggest you re-read my post. i never claimed The Sycophant Oblivion bailed on Polaris. I said the rag tag group of opportunists and back stabbing liers that bailed on MCXA were responsible for cutting a sweatheart deal with the NPO in exchange for the head of Polaris.

your "alliance" is made up of opportunist rulers who go from "top dog" to "top dog" leeching off their muscles and political connections to stay out of hharms way. You have never done anything to prove that you're anything but a rag tag group of liers and cheats and until you do you will continue to be judged on the actions of your past (regardless of what AA you committed them under). As i said before, everyone pays for their sins eventually, and there will come a time when no one is willing to protect you guys and you will finally realize that no one will be with you when death comes knocking on your door.

Quite frankly, the worry was that if the pressure was taken off the old MOs would come right back. We wanted you to feel what it felt like to be beaten down so that you'd never do it to anybody for crappy reasons again.

please, people wanted war and they didn't care by that point who was in charge, they wanted blood for various reasons ranging from settling old grudges to wanting to be considered a big boy alliance who didn't have to live under the shadow of polaris. It had nothing to do with the leadership, Sponge was the scape goat for your war of "retribution" (not saying he was innocent, but that his dynamic, polarizing, personality made for a perfect opportunity for people to act on something they had wanted to do for a long time)

Edited October 30, 2009 by elborrador

[Eric Cantona]

The topic is NOT the NoCB War. Anymore of that and I'll be yellow carding the lot of you.

[Earogema]

OOC: All text in blue below this is OOC. The one word not blue is the IC response.

If you dont see the fnords they cant eat you. Dont see the fnords!

Exactly what I would expect you to say. You think you can be clever and dissolve the distinction like that, just invent a reason it doesnt apply to you and then expect everyone to let you screw them over again and again. I dont approve of alliances crossing that line but I realise they are forced to exactly because of people like you, so expect no sympathy.

Yeah, because of my history of rerolling and spying. Face it. You have no reason to believe that I have ever spied on anyone personally. In fact when I did spy, it was known that I was a spy. I have never personally spied with my own nation. But yes, my history speaks volumes.

In other words you only told them who you were because they caught you when you tried to sneak in.

Wrong. I admitted in the OP of my post that I was a reroll. Nice try though. I did so because Pacifica always checks rerolls and because I had already known this from well, spying on Pacifica.

Saw nothing like that in the other thread. The stomping of NoV was obviously one where I agree with you. But I am not so simpleminded as to agree with everything you say simply because you are clever enough to deduce that a current member of NoR probably didnt appreciate that steaming pile either.

Really? You didn't notice how the Emperor forced Francesca to give him access to her own private OOC channel? Really? That's just one recent instance. Talk to Doitzel, he can give you like 50 more.

All I have done is to point out what your own words have revealed in the quoted sections of this very thread. It is enough that if you were an enemy of my alliance and "re-rolled" to escape our military I would have serious problems admitting your new nation as a member. No alliance should be so foolish as to pretend that the average ruler compartmentalises the two as they should in areas where security is directly implicated, and no alliance is under any obligation to admit anyone.

You have even drug me down to your level in carrying on this OOC intrusion across multiple posts. My point is made and I dont intend to respond to anymore of this gibberish here, except to interpret it as episodic bouts of Glossolalia.

Vox won and disbanded. The NPO was not perusing me any longer. We were victorious for a couple of months when I attempted to join. NPO were forced by terms to let me go. I fought with my old nation and never once rerolled while in actual combat. The reason I rerolled is because I knew it would be odd for MegaAros to be pro-NPO, so I required a new persona. But fine. If you honestly think that I really care about sabotaging the NPO even more, go ahead. This is precisely why I would have had to reroll btw. You people don't let go of past actions in a game. It's really disheartening.

[Penkala]

Edit: Woops, saw mod's post.

Francesca, are you coming back to discuss this or...

Edited October 30, 2009 by Penkala

[Whitney]

Oh look, my nation went up in overall rank.

Edit: Oh whoops. Minor gravedig.

Edited November 2, 2009 by Whitney

[Aguacenta]

Before the eyes of the world: "hey look at me, look at me, look at me, hey you're not looking at me".