Why GOD and RIA cancelled on Nemesis

[CptGodzilla]

What this man says is generally pretty on the ball.

Blacky, I get what you're trying to put across, but I'm kinda laughing at everyone involved here.

On the one hand, if Xiph, or GOD as a whole were going to try to disband, or even ZI an entire alliance... Nueva Vida certainly would not have just let that go on.

On the other hand, if GOD wanted to cancel your treaty because you didn't want to go along with their plans (however retarded they may be), why does that bother you? Hell, if someone cancels a treaty with me because I won't go along with every halfwitted notion that comes to their mind then quite frankly I'm better off.

So Nueva Vida is the new CN police?

I'll make sure to run all my actions by Nueva Vida before I do them from now on

[Blacky]

Nemesis a personality cult you say? What does that have to do with this thread?

Rest assured the threat of NV breaking ranks was the last thing we were worried about. I did find it hilarious how eager you were to do it, though, on behalf of the opposition. It's personally my sincerest hope I never find myself in such a fragmented coalition as Karma ever again.

You probably should never have been in Karma with your attitude. Same **** different smell.

Fortunately, you failed to destroy a sovereign alliance despite your earnest efforts. But did succeed in creating a massive headache for all the alliances involved Nemesis included. Kudos.

So Nueva Vida is the new CN police?

I'll make sure to run all my actions by Nueva Vida before I do them from now on

Hizzy never implied that he was the CN police. A lot of us were at war with ideas and not strictly with AA's -- Xiphosis threatened that.

[Bob]

A much better reply, I knew there was a reason I respected you.

When Nemesis was created, you had a huge burst of growth. It was bragged about constantly.. Do you think that was because of Hoo and you, and to a smaller extent soccerbum, or because you were great at recruiting? It may be less so now, but pretty much every 'big name' that was with Nemesis originally is now gone, from what I can see. And I don't believe they'll last another year.. My opinion, only time will tell.

SpiderJ, ZoomZoomZoom, Yawoo (while not big for most, hes big in the former ODN aspect).

They still have a good amount of leadership there, and while a lot aren't high profile, they are very talented, like Poyples and Sirdog.

[CptGodzilla]

Hizzy never implied that he was the CN police. A lot of us were at war with ideas and not strictly with AA's -- Xiphosis threatened that.

"On the one hand, if Xiph, or GOD as a whole were going to try to disband, or even ZI an entire alliance... Nueva Vida certainly would not have just let that go on."

That contradicts your statement

Edited October 6, 2009 by CptGodzilla

[cookavich]

"On the one hand, if Xiph, or GOD as a whole were going to try to disband, or even ZI an entire alliance... Nueva Vida certainly would not have just let that go on."

That counteracts your statement

How so?

[CptGodzilla]

How so?

Xiph / GOD wanted to pretty much destroy AB

Hizzy says NV wouldn't let GOD ZI or destroy an alliance (never specified so we are left to assume any alliance)

thus Hizzy claims NV protect alliances from ZI

thus NV is the CN police

[ChairmanHal]

There's a difference between saying "that's a bad idea and I disagree with it" and threatening to pick up your ball and go home.

In the RL US military a subordinate who believes that an order is unlawful has an obligation not to follow it. After watching member after member of the Nazi regime at the Nuremberg Trails describe how they were "only following orders" when they sent millions of Jews and others to the gas chamber, the US military did not want their officers or enlisted people using the excuse they were only following orders to commit serious war crimes.

With the obligation of not following an unlawful order also comes the realization that if you fail to follow a lawful order you can be tried, convicted, jailed or even executed. Therefore, US military personnel do not take disobeying any order lightly.

If those leading Nemesis believed that what GOD wanted to do amounted to a war crime, then they are under no obligation to go along with it, IMHO. As others have suggested, they can decline action. However, they should not in any way be surprised nor even particularly upset if GOD cancels their treaty with them later, or even on the spot.

All this seems like much ado about something that is no longer an issue, unless the intent is merely to embarrass GOD and RIA.

[Xiphosis]

You probably should never have been in Karma with your attitude.

Trust me when I say I would've enjoyed sitting it out with my allies and watching the moral blowhards fail in a big way, but I'm not so selfish to let the one opportunity to restore balance pass by.

[JackSkellington]

Xiph / GOD wanted to pretty much destroy AB

Hizzy says NV wouldn't let GOD ZI or destroy an alliance (never specified so we are left to assume any alliance)

thus Hizzy claims NV protect alliances from ZI

thus NV is the CN police

I think it's more of because AB and NV share a treaty. As well, AB and MK shared a treaty, thus why MK likely wouldn't have allowed it either.

[draov]

I don't know why this topic was made, nor do I think it is helpful to anyone or anything. It is no secret that GOD and RIA canceled on Nemesis during a time when Nemesis was going through huge changes amongst the government and membership, and at a time when Nemesis needed their allies the most. This has caused many members of Nemesis to look down on RIA and GOD when they learned of the treaty cancellations, such is the way of things, it was bound to happen. That said, making a topic like this on the OWF is not the way to go about expressing feelings.

Yes, Nemesis disagreed with certain practices that GOD looked more favorably on. However, at the end of the day, it was because of how the treaties were signed which caused its downfall. Treaties never should be signed because alliances like certain government members, and not the alliance as a whole. This was root of the problems with the treaties. This situation should have been over and done with months ago, and I have no idea why it is being brought to the OWF like it is now - in no way shape or form should inter-alliance problems like this be spread across the world screen, because all it does is feed the drama llamas and does no one any good but it certainly spreads bad feelings and frowns to everyone involved.

Since it seems that this was buried, I would like to take this time to reiterate that Blacky was acting on his own by posting this topic. We do strongly believe in our members rights to free speech, so we will not be forcing him to apologize. We harbor no ill will towards GOD or RIA. It was just not meant to be.

[CptGodzilla]

I think it's more of because AB and NV share a treaty. As well, AB and MK shared a treaty, thus why MK likely wouldn't have allowed it either.

Then Hizzy should have specified, but his exact words

"On the one hand, if Xiph, or GOD as a whole were going to try to disband, or even ZI an entire alliance... Nueva Vida certainly would not have just let that go on."

It leads one ignorant to the situation (such as myself) to believe that NV will not let any alliance be ZI'd or forced to disband by GOD (and possibly other alliances)

But that is besides the point, I still plan on running any of my actions by NV incase they object and don't want to let it "go on"

I also stopped liking nemesis once they let blacky in, and this is a great reason why. (this = thread)

[rishnokof]

Since it seems that this was buried, I would like to take this time to reiterate that Blacky was acting on his own by posting this topic. We do strongly believe in our members rights to free speech, so we will not be forcing him to apologize. We harbor no ill will towards GOD or RIA. It was just not meant to be.

He may be acting on his own, but you must realize this thread reflects poorly on your alliance.

[The Corrupt Teacher]

Both CnG and SF had committed significant portions of their strength to engaging and defeating the NPO, and this task was considered too important by everyone involved for an issue with AB to be allowed to flare into a bloc war. The war of which you speak would have never been allowed to happen, simple as that.

The truth is that if Nemesis felt that GOD was being so immoral and unreasonable, they should have canceled the treaty themselves so that they didn't have to work together in the future. In Xiphosis' eyes an ally is someone who will back you up no matter what, and in essence, you proved yourself unworthy as an ally in his eyes because you failed to back him up in this matter. This is not to say that Xiphosis' actions toward AB were proportionate or made a lot of sense or were even justified - but the important issue from GOD's perspective is simply that you failed to provide unconditional support, even if you didn't agree with the decision. From what I can tell, that is the standard that GOD demands - and gets - of its allies. Absolute trust, and unwavering loyalty. If you aren't willing to provide an alliance like GOD with unconditional support like that, you shouldn't sign with them in the first place.

I would personally be unwilling to make that level of commitment to GOD in the long term, although I maintained it throughout the prosecution of the Karma war when we were both engaged with NPO while I worked long and hard to find a terms solution that all parties could live with. Anyway, what I have gathered from this discussion is that Nemesis and GOD have different standards that they hold their allies to, and Blacky is butthurt about this difference and somehow thinks that revealing that GOD canceled over this issue will make GOD look bad. As far as I see it, it doesn't. GOD is a sovereign alliance led by Xiphosis. If you don't trust Xiphosis or don't enjoy working with him or whatever, you shouldn't hold a treaty with GOD. Simple as that. No need for all the butthurt and people trying to stir up crap between C&G and SF.

I don't care what my friends in C&G say, you are pretty cool sometimes.

This thread should have ended here.

If someone decides to ever make the forums public, you'll know what I mean. Karma was filled to the brim with spite for one another. Fragmented is a very nice way of putting it. I meant that entirely sincerely - I liked my company in GW2/3/UJW. Karma wasn't pleasant, not for anyone.

Dear Admin lets not even open that can of worms. Karma was made of up of those too cowardly to die with honor, the "morally righteous Q supporters" who finally "had enough", (aka more cowards who didn't want to get curb stomped) and those of us wanting revenge. Terrible mix.

[LiquidMercury]

Trust me when I say I would've enjoyed sitting it out with my allies and watching the moral blowhards fail in a big way, but I'm not so selfish to let the one opportunity to restore balance pass by.

Now Xiph, you know just as well as I do we'd of won with or without you. You also know that you didn't do this to restore balance, you did this to blow !@#$ up and have a lot of fun while wrecking havoc on alliances that have wronged you in the past. At least stick with your status quo of telling things how it is. You being in Karma had little to do with balance, maybe some but definitely not your sole or even major purpose I'd say. Correct me if I am wrong of course but at least be honest about it right or wrong.

[Delta1212]

Now Xiph, you know just as well as I do we'd of won with or without you. You also know that you didn't do this to restore balance, you did this to blow !@#$ up and have a lot of fun while wrecking havoc on alliances that have wronged you in the past. At least stick with your status quo of telling things how it is. You being in Karma had little to do with balance, maybe some but definitely not your sole or even major purpose I'd say. Correct me if I am wrong of course but at least be honest about it right or wrong.

Actually, the balance thing was Xiph's major issue in the whole thing. Blowing !@#$ up was a perk.

[Newhotness]

old issue is old. but it gives me something to read at 2am while ppl argue

[LiquidMercury]

Actually, the balance thing was Xiph's major issue in the whole thing. Blowing !@#$ up was a perk.

I stand corrected then, he just never came off as someone seeking balance. Glad to know Archon and I had company

[draov]

He may be acting on his own, but you must realize this thread reflects poorly on your alliance.

Thanks for pointing out the obvious. But what's done is done.

[SWAT128]

I guess this is what happens when the reason you sign a treaty leaves the alliance you signed with. I'll take the blame for RIA-Nemesis relations failing, as I didn't keep conversation up with Nemesis while I was in RIA, but I'm not really sure what we did to be called out here.

Edited October 6, 2009 by SWAT128

[erikz]

Blacky, you truly are Nemesis' nemesis.

[hizzy]

Then Hizzy should have specified, but his exact words

"On the one hand, if Xiph, or GOD as a whole were going to try to disband, or even ZI an entire alliance... Nueva Vida certainly would not have just let that go on."

It leads one ignorant to the situation (such as myself) to believe that NV will not let any alliance be ZI'd or forced to disband by GOD (and possibly other alliances)

But that is besides the point, I still plan on running any of my actions by NV incase they object and don't want to let it "go on"

I also stopped liking nemesis once they let blacky in, and this is a great reason why. (this = thread)

My bad, next time I'll make sure to clearly state who I'm treatied to, to make sure nobody gets the impression that I'm policing the world, not like we have the right to declare for any reason we want anyways.

[CptGodzilla]

My bad, next time I'll make sure to clearly state who I'm treatied to, to make sure nobody gets the impression that I'm policing the world, not like we have the right to declare for any reason we want anyways.

Of course not. That would cause an internal problem because you would have to stop yourselves... being CN police and all

Also I agree with dravo. What's done is done, and probably should be left done.

[That-one-place]

Blacky, you truly are Nemesis' nemesis.

Best post in this thread. Winner.

[Blacky]

Trust me when I say I would've enjoyed sitting it out with my allies and watching the moral blowhards fail in a big way, but I'm not so selfish to let the one opportunity to restore balance pass by.

I find this utterly hilarious. I'm quite sure that Delta2121 is credited for naming Karma long before the coalition came into fruition. Many of your allies hold (and some continue to hold) these core values to heart and definitely hold it true that morals are important. So yes I find it both fanciful and amusing that you think that because your allies hold (in my opinion an unwarranted) respect for you that they would have sat on the sidelines if you'd asked them. There's a reason why none of your allies supported you in your attempts to destroy a sovereign alliance.

Blacky, you truly are Nemesis' nemesis.

You're about a year late for that line of reasoning especially in an alliance such as Nemesis which prides itself in the memberships right to free speech and expression.

Edited October 6, 2009 by Blacky

[Terry Howard]

You sir, are an idiot. Xiphosis wanted to disband AB because of a grudge that he held from something that happened with one of the alliances that merged to form AB. It was also something that he wasn't involved in personally, it was a grudge he held because of something that was done to someone else.

An idiot i may be but i know full well what Xiphosis does when he holds a grudge. To me the Illuminati war is very fresh in my mind and the fact im on GODs PZI is proof of that fact. They went to war in defence of NPO and even after going to war with NPO hold me to the PZI for past actions before the war.

I know how he can turn words to make things look in his favor.