Overrated Alliance Government

[WildThing]

Given the wish for military action against Polar that existed in many other alliances at the time, TOP's participation was certainly not necessary for the war to go forward. Feel free to ask around about that to the others who were, in the event, involved in the war.

Per the necessity for a 'war-oriented Grandmaster': I'll re-iterate again that I was acting only on the basis of the desires of TOP's membership at the time. Such is how representative democracy works. In any event, trust me; the membership was geared up for the war---it was a long time in the coming---such that any Grandmaster who was in office at the time would have had to be criminally irresponsible to not make an effort to bring it about.

It was actually a couple of TOP members, if I recall correctly, that put these crazy notions in my head in the first place. Oh well, I'm not really fussed either way so I'll just accept your word for it. Pretty irrelevant nowadays.

See WildThing? I knew it was you!

Not sure if you're just being funny right now or if you actually don't realize we're on a different subject now. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and chuckle at your joke.

[SpiderJerusalem]

Seems to me that Polaris has progressed quite nicely under Emperor Grub. He deserves the credit he receives.

Also as an insider on the workings of Anu Drake, while he may not be popular with many of you, he was a very hard working leader. He not only gave directions, but also delegated to others, and did not hesitate to carry the burdens of his members mistakes on his shoulders. He stood up for every member, and since it is apparently not too common, never hesitated to personally help a noob. I was one of them. He may not have been the most loved by the world, but he dedicated himself to his alliance, and knew when to step down when real life got the better of him. I don't expect this to change anyone's mind, so take it as you will. I guess it can go in the same boat as those who so vehemently defend Hoo and the others.

I have to agree with this, and especially the bolded part.

With a former character of mine, Anu really went up and above

[Chalaskan]

I'll add to the consent that Grub does not deserve to be mentioned in this thread.

He has done an awesome job, as have several others. For maybe, biased reasons; I would consider Crymson on that list as well, but I know particulars many of you, do not.

Ivan was the beneficiary to one of the most talented groups on Bob. Being of that caliber has something to be said...and trust me, he lead them because he was of that caliber.

So you could objectively cross out three members, or make your own conclusions without my input. I'll always honestly give My 2 though.

[The AUT]

Oh, CptGodzilla's another one. He runs around running his mouth uttering inappropriate things completely failed with Tuatha de danan (it was so bad no one should even bother to spell the name right) and gets inserted into MA gov all the time. Not to mention he clings on tight to his pixels.

So yeah, there's another one.

[Chalaskan]

Crymson is not a war-oriented Grandmaster. The man cant even deploy his own soldiers without ending up in anarchy...

Lmao!! You did it! Holy hell, that was true....but Funny!

<3 Ponken

[Bob Janova]

I can't really think of anyone who was highly rated and turned out to be a failure. Most of the people mentioned in here were either never rated in the first place, or were really worth their rating for most of the time they were in government. Van Hoo would be the closest, but he did actually make a big success of RoK. The NPO would be another obvious candidate, but I don't think Moo was that highly rated in the first place, and Dilber was brilliant, he was just not really playing the game when the NPO was failing.

[janax]

Looking back now, I'm not proud of most of what I did during that time, and I'm much happier now, being basically irrelevant.

Our e-lawyers will be over to discuss copyright infringment later.

)):

Edited October 6, 2009 by janax

[Haflinger]

I can't really think of anyone who was highly rated and turned out to be a failure. Most of the people mentioned in here were either never rated in the first place, or were really worth their rating for most of the time they were in government. Van Hoo would be the closest, but he did actually make a big success of RoK. The NPO would be another obvious candidate, but I don't think Moo was that highly rated in the first place, and Dilber was brilliant, he was just not really playing the game when the NPO was failing.

A long time ago, I heard people praising Terry Howard's leadership abilities.

[astronaut jones]

I personally never saw what was so great about van hoo III, he was nice... that's about all I ever saw in him, don't know why he was so revered. I try not to interact with people as much as I possibly can, so I can't say I ever really spoke with him to any great extent, but yeah. I saw what he accomplished with RoK, and he did a good job, but what he actually accomplished never came close to the amount of adulation he received, for essentially being around.

I think anyone who lead GGA is highly overrated, too. I never liked GGA, I'll disclose that right now so people don't accuse me of bias, but GGA was an alliance that had either a stagnated growth or negative growth from the time I first arrived here on PB. Their accomplishments were, for the most part, accomplishments because of their allies (WUT, 1v, Q, etc..). So, bilrow, ironchef, anyone else inbetween.. I don't really see what they did, if they did anything, and they earned their name by being in the right place at the right time, with the right alliance.

And with that, I exit the thread.

[Anu Drake]

A long time ago, I heard people praising Terry Howard's leadership abilities.

:lol1:

He did have a knack for getting small alliances to merge with him. If it wasn't for some serious bad judgment and a forum permissions mess up he might still be around. I tried to bring him back since he's in TE right now but couldn't convince him.

SJ and Wentworth, love you guys.

[porksaber]

NCC, Ogodai, and E. Schrodinger are probably the most underrated government in the game.

Also, Magnum is sorely underrated.

Who is overrated thought is the current president of ARES.

[JBone]

Slayer also comes to mind for me as an overrated leader. I'll probably get trolled to hell for saying it, but he was really good at being an asshat sometimes. >_>

Yes, he was...but that was the role he chose at times. He did it well, so to say he was overrated might not be the correct terminology.

Slayer's brilliance at the realpolitik aspect of the planet is a trait I respected and looked on with awe. He could get under skins on the OWF and he did it with panache. Overrated? Hardly. He earned his place as one of The Greats.

Awe?

One of the greats?

I am as big a slayer fanboy as they come Peg but that made me lol.

Couldn't have said it better. Slayer may have been an alright troll in the same sense that BnT, Branimir and TBB were, by frustrating people so much with their stupidity. But alliances have positions for people like that, and while BnT, Branimir and TBB fitted their position, Slayer was a leader.. He went from basically nothing before UJW to hated but luckily protected after it. There is nothing to brag about in Slayer's career. And I personally prefer trolls like JT, Sponge and most of MK as opposed to the, 'I will never concede defeat in an argument whether I'm losing it or not and I'm just going to continue to post smiley-faces and act like I'm winning' style of troll.

He wanted to play a prick, he wanted to keep us safe....he did both of those things until the day he retired.

You can debate his methods and scruples but not his results.

Two and a half years ago he took a group of 60 or so refugees and turned them into a 400 member, sanctioned alliance that held membership in both WuT and Q. You may not like how he did it, but that does not diminish the fact that it was done.

Somehow, I don't think people realize that angering people is actually the opposite of realpolitik. The guiding tenet is that the ends justify the means, but if the ends are that half the planet hates you, then you aren't really doing so well.

I know he liked the politiks, not sure how real it was though. He certainly angered many, but that was sometimes his intent. His ends were almost always met and his means were of no consequence to him. If for some reason you ended up on the wrong side of him things usually didn't end so well. The hatred that followed was something he reveled in.

Not the best long term strategy but he had a decent run.

As a leader overall I would have to give him a B+, he was very good with FA and achieving his goals. Not a great or awe inspiring leader as internal things often suffered while he was off on his crusades...and christ what a micro manager when he was poking around internally.

Hi boss...if ur lurkin.

[rnegafan]

NCC, Ogodai, and E. Schrodinger are probably the most underrated government in the game.

Also, Magnum is sorely underrated.

This is quite true

[Un4Gvn1]

Yes, he was...but that was the role he chose at times. He did it well, so to say he was overrated might not be the correct terminology.

Awe?

One of the greats?

I am as big a slayer fanboy as they come Peg but that made me lol.

He wanted to play a prick, he wanted to keep us safe....he did both of those things until the day he retired.

You can debate his methods and scruples but not his results.

Two and a half years ago he took a group of 60 or so refugees and turned them into a 400 member, sanctioned alliance that held membership in both WuT and Q. You may not like how he did it, but that does not diminish the fact that it was done.

<snip>

Hi boss...if ur lurkin.

I agree with your assessments and will point out (the bolded part) the fact I can think he didn't trust me because I was NONE my first few months here but still respect and admire the way he managed other things.

Yes, internal affairs was a problem, but that does not detract from his Foreign Affairs brilliance.

How's it going, JBone?

Edited October 6, 2009 by Peggy_Sue

[Bob Janova]

I think anyone who lead GGA is highly overrated, too.

Heh, I don't think anyone has rated GGA for a long, long time.

[Un4Gvn1]

Feel free to reply to Delta's post, or mine.

Delta's post was replied to by TBB and I said I agreed with TBB, therefore I didn't have anything to add to Delta's post.

I assure you, it's you. Feel free to just reply to this post with another Picard if you wish.

Couldn't have said it better. Slayer may have been an alright troll in the same sense that BnT, Branimir and TBB were, by frustrating people so much with their stupidity. But alliances have positions for people like that, and while BnT, Branimir and TBB fitted their position, Slayer was a leader.. He went from basically nothing before UJW to hated but luckily protected after it. There is nothing to brag about in Slayer's career. And I personally prefer trolls like JT, Sponge and most of MK as opposed to the, 'I will never concede defeat in an argument whether I'm losing it or not and I'm just going to continue to post smiley-faces and act like I'm winning' style of troll.

Ah, this one, you mean?

I see how that looked from the perspective of reading the OWF but I do not agree that being a 'troll' was the sole purpose of those kinds of Slayer's posts.

[MagicalTrevor]

I think anyone who lead GGA is highly overrated, too.

it is impossible to overate Prodigal chieftan. He was literally perfect.

[Ivan Moldavi]

Hmm.

I was asked by several people to stop being as active on the OWF as I was when I initially returned because I seemed to cause calamity at will. I guess taking their advice and restricting my discourse on the boards makes me overrated?

Weird.

[Seerow]

Hmm.

I was asked by several people to stop being as active on the OWF as I was when I initially returned because I seemed to cause calamity at will. I guess taking their advice and restricting my discourse on the boards makes me overrated?

Weird.

Most definitely. Resume your activity, cause calamities, it's what the people expect from you.

And no, I'm not being sarcastic.

[Ivan Moldavi]

Most definitely. Resume your activity, cause calamities, it's what the people expect from you.

And no, I'm not being sarcastic.

Most of the world today seems to care more for their ones and zeroes than any aspect of actual "fun" from certain ingame activities.

[TheEraser]

I wasn't talking about popularity, I was more on the "high horse" factor... the one you were so proudly on with that post. (I bet that post did nothing for NpO and was all for your personal reasons. I can't see any reason why an alliance would care what you say about others)

As for your post in this thread, "I direct, others do." You are very full of yourself. You say that like whatever good has been done in NpO has been your idea and you told people to do it.

Lemme give you a tip that I found out. Activity within leadership (the doing part, not directing part) will progress your alliance further.

i'm not sure if you just don't get it, or what. I have yet to see any reasonably well thought out reaons why grub is overrated. Sure you can use catch phrases like "high horse" and rant about polaris trying to play the "morality police" but those are empty comments at best. I would have expected someone like you to be at least a little more informed than you seem to be, disappointing really.

I don't really think Grub needs any tips from you bud, Polaris seems to be doing quite alright, what with regularly posting gains of a million NS per month and their 4,000+ nukes and their ever increasing WRC numbers, and thats just the stats. If you cared to dig deeper you would see that Polaris has the depth at leadership that no other alliance can claim, From Penguin and Dajobo as imperial regent and Liaison, all the way down to the Foreign Affairs officers and the batt. commanders.

Grub did something that very few alliances could have duplicated in his position, he watched the world betray Polaris and held the morality of the alliance together far more than anyone else could have. His constant proof of dedication and service to Polaris, while apparently not known to you, are pretty well documented and most of the world, including former enemies have give credit where credit was due.

Mu suggestion? think before you type. I have no problems with people saying he's overrated, but please try and form a coherent case for why is overrated first.

[TehChron]

Most of the world today seems to care more for their ones and zeroes than any aspect of actual "fun" from certain ingame activities.

Screw them.

[zzzptm]

I used to be overrated, but now I'm irrelevant.

Seriously, this is leading to a lot more "you don't know $STRING_LEADER_NAME like I do" posts than it is actual discussion of who failed to live up to the hype. There's some score-settling, which is to be expected, but that's not anything like what the OP asked for.

For there to be questions of who's over- or under- in the ratings, we first need to have ratings. Is this just for heads of government, or also top ministers? What ARE the ratings, for that matter? Is there an overall score, composed of categorical rankings in various areas? And then, if someone is overrated, wouldn't that then imply we should modify the ratings system to produce results more in line with reality?

Moreover, the top dog leaders of the game have interactions with each other that those of us that are spearchuckers for our alliances have no clue about. An example... From where I sit, I may think that $STRING_LEADER_NAME is a total doofus, but I have no clue what he's doing in private IRC channels or Skype conversations.

So here's where I make the call... there are names that we expect to shake things up and when shaking doesn't happen, the overratedness sets in.

Ivan Moldavi: Dude shook things up. He's a Sith and can work behind the scenes. He attracts talent. Not overrated. He's a question mark wrapped in an enigma covered in red wine sauce. He *will* be overrated in about six months if NSO doesn't get involved in some massive war between now and then.

MooCows: Honestly, we all expected more from NPO than the OV debacle that led to the Karma War. We all expected it to be much more difficult to fight NPO and its allies, that the NS counts would be close to even, maybe with a slight edge to Q in overall numbers with anti-Q having its strength in the larger NS range. But the way NPO went into the war, tried to get out of it, and lost nearly all of its allies in the course of 48 hours was a farce. Crappy Internet connection doesn't wash as an excuse. MooCows didn't shake things up so much as he let them collapse all around him. Overrated.

VanHooIII: Don't diss on a guy that can engineer several mergers and have them hold. People disrespect mergers like they happen successfully all the time. They don't. Hoo could bring people together very effectively and when he returned to CN, he shook things up pretty well. Not overrated.

Grub: Dude didn't shake things up as much as refuse to be shaken by the things others shook at him. He can shake it all night long. Not overrated.

Any leader that bailed on Pacifica: Seriously. Doing that move caused you to lose a whole lot of respect in the world around you. Can't be overrated when your actions made your reputation that much lower.

Any leader that bailed on Polaris: Same for you. If you didn't like Polaris, that's one thing. Keep your rating. But if you bailed out of fear of taking a whoopin' for being Polar's friend, the world lol's at you.

Vox Populi: The leaders of Vox, and I know that's a stretch, given their anarchic structure, did an excellent job of shaking things up. Doitzel, in particular, continues to shake along and keep his ratedness from being over. Electron Sponge didn't shake things up with TLC, but I saw that as more of a retirement alliance for him anyway. He keeps his ratedness.

Schattenmann: He's a propagandist, not a MoFA. He shakes things up, so he's only overrated in his own mind.

RyanGDI is NOT overrated. The dude makes stuff happen. I love this guy. I know he's not overrated, but he's someone I love to read about. He keeps events happening, and that's a good thing. I hope that, one day, he's able to trigger a major war with his actions. Keep plugging, dude.

Sam: We all expected TSO to lead to some ultra-major drama and maybe a war. We got our drama, but it fizzled. TSO didn't do a whole lot. Sorry, dude, but you're overrated. We expected steak, but only got sizzle.

Slayer99: Ooooooooooooooh this is a touchy one. Fact is, he made stuff happen. If he came back, there are people that would have a fight-or-flight response and he could definitely shake things up again. He's out, but his legacy of shaking things up remains. Not overrated. Hated, sure, but not overrated.

Archon: Always ready to read an Archon OP, and it always delivers. Not overrated.

Bigwoody: He's in retirement now, but he made TORN a major player far out of proportion to its size. Never mind that attacking OV was a goofup: it was a MAJOR move that resulted in the complete wreckage of NPO and its allies. I don't think he can top that, but he really shook things up and made the game what it is today.

FAN: for an alliance almost entirely in peace mode, surrounded by enemies, you still generated an aura of fear. You shook things up plenty up to the Karma War, but now, not so much. Your leadership, like NSO's, has a six-month grace period to start something or you will be overrated.

Rebel Virginia: "Shakin" is his middle name. I love you, RV, you magnificent !@#$%^&. If you ever declare war on me, I will surrender immediately rather than face the awful consequences of a protracted conflict with Rebel Virginia.

There are alliance leaders that are expected to live up to their treaties: they neither exceed or fall short of expectations. They're good, solid workers that nobody really expects to go out and shake things up. Therefore, they're not overrated. They're just quiet.

Edit: forgot a verb... fix'd...

Edited October 6, 2009 by zzzptm

[The AUT]

RyanGDI is NOT overrated. The dude makes stuff happen. I love this guy. I know he's not overrated, but he's someone I love to read about. He keeps events happening, and that's a good thing. I hope that, one day, he's able to trigger a major war with his actions. Keep plugging, dude.

He doesn't do it intentionally. He screws up and as a result makes for some cheap drama. Us at Dynomite and RV tried to train him but he ended up ticking off VE and got rolled.

[Delta1212]

He doesn't do it intentionally. He screws up and as a result makes for some cheap drama. Us at Dynomite and RV tried to train him but he ended up ticking off VE and got rolled.

But it is true that RyanGDI isn't overrated.