President Obama Posted September 25, 2009 Report Share Posted September 25, 2009 This mass treaty announcement at least shows that we, as an alliance, now have some balls. What? You canceled some old NAPs and PIATs because you wanted to move in a different FA direction. It's not like you took some huge risk with this announcement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qazzian Posted September 25, 2009 Report Share Posted September 25, 2009 Now ODN, what did we learn here? Split your cancellation announcements up, otherwise everyone is going to think that you're about to start dropping bombs everywhere. Of course, if you post multiple announcements, people would jump on you for making too many announcements, but I'm guessing that wouldn't end up being as long a thread and would contain less references to sand, lines, and the latter being drawn in the former. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zimmerwald1915 Posted September 25, 2009 Report Share Posted September 25, 2009 Lol, good luck with that. Needs more substance. Fortunately, I got a big pile of substance right here that I haven't been able to put to any use. So here goes: why did Craig say what he said? More generally, why does INT buck the trend and hold ODN in esteem as an honorable alliance? INT's history isn't very long, so I can tell you about only two incidents where we got into hot water and ODN unequivocally backed us. Out of respect for the other alliances involved I won't go into much detail about the first, suffice to say it took place from March 9 to March 19, 2009 and ended with Comrade Craig issuing a public apology and Viridian Entente canceling a bunch of treaties; both threads are a matter of public record. ODN, out of concern for our well-being felt compelled to engage in extraordinary intervention on our behalf, and while some would argue that doing so made the situation more volatile, it does speak to the lengths ODN was willing to go on our behalf. The second incident took place in late April in the infamous announcement that the only treaties ODN would be honoring were its pacts with RnR, Vanguard, and INT. At the time it was not at all clear that the "Karma" side in which these three alliances were located would be the overwhelming force that it was. Indeed, many were concerned that it would fizzle (there is an argument to be made that the PoV that Karma was very successful in spreading that NPO attacked during peace talks helped grow the coalition immensely). Once again, ODN was willing to intervene on our (not to minimize RnR and Vanguard here, but obviously I can't speak to their experiences) behalf when the circumstances did not indicate a necessarily pixel-saving move. So yeah, we got nothing but love for ODN. I think we've earned that right, and I think ODN's earned that love from us. Obviously I'm not gonna convince you, but it's really not cool to put us down because we've had an overwhelmingly positive experience with an alliance you love to hate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hell Scream Posted September 25, 2009 Report Share Posted September 25, 2009 What? You canceled some old NAPs and PIATs because you wanted to move in a different FA direction. It's not like you took some huge risk with this announcement. By posting threads we always risk to have not very bright people post in them, that's a big risk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LJ Scott Posted September 25, 2009 Report Share Posted September 25, 2009 By posting threads we always risk to have not very bright people post in them, that's a big risk. You could just ban your members from posting in said threads. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zimmerwald1915 Posted September 25, 2009 Report Share Posted September 25, 2009 You could just ban your members from posting in said threads. Ain't you clever Ironically, ODN gets trolled for doing this, too. There's even a war named after the practice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haflinger Posted September 25, 2009 Report Share Posted September 25, 2009 INT's history isn't very long, so I can tell you about only two incidents where we got into hot water and ODN unequivocally backed us. Out of respect for the other alliances involved I won't go into much detail about the first, suffice to say it took place from March 9 to March 19, 2009 and ended with Comrade Craig issuing a public apology and Viridian Entente canceling a bunch of treaties; both threads are a matter of public record. ODN, out of concern for our well-being felt compelled to engage in extraordinary intervention on our behalf, and while some would argue that doing so made the situation more volatile, it does speak to the lengths ODN was willing to go on our behalf. ODN's side had significant backing in this incident. You're not going to lecture Invicta government on it, as we were quite heavily involved in planning for the defence of your alliance. Of course, that didn't stop you from taking joy in attacking some of the other alliances who supported you later on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zimmerwald1915 Posted September 25, 2009 Report Share Posted September 25, 2009 ODN's side had significant backing in this incident. You're not going to lecture Invicta government on it, as we were quite heavily involved in planning for the defence of your alliance. That's kind of you. Of course, that didn't stop you from taking joy in attacking some of the other alliances who supported you later on. Funny, I don't remember NPO or NATO being involved in those talks at all. I do remember four specific alliances not directly involved in the dispute being involved in the negotiations, two of which were on the "other side" of the developing web and which we were (and still are) bound not to wage war with. Not so coincidentally, we didn't wage war with them. Sorry about being vague, by the way; it's something all the alliances involved agreed not to talk specifically about way back when, and an old promise is still a promise. [/offtopic] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hell Scream Posted September 25, 2009 Report Share Posted September 25, 2009 You could just ban your members from posting in said threads. "Members are expected to be respectful of non-members and members alike" Did you accidentally breach Umbella's charter? Cool. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joracy Posted September 25, 2009 Report Share Posted September 25, 2009 You could just ban your members from posting in said threads. Oh my, I think I just died from you amazing wit. Truly, you have made this thread a better place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LJ Scott Posted September 25, 2009 Report Share Posted September 25, 2009 "Members are expected to be respectful of non-members and members alike"Did you accidentally breach Umbella's charter? Cool. Oh, this is me being very much respectful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twizzler Posted September 25, 2009 Report Share Posted September 25, 2009 (edited) Well, it wasn't always a PIAT. There's a good reason it's no longer so, and a reason why it wasn't cancelled. And, well, after that you can't really blame some people for being a little sore. And if you don't care for what he's saying, you could have easily determined this by the first response or so. OOC: And there's always that shiny ignore button too. I'm pretty sure we'll all aware that ODN and Invicta once shared an MDP. It was only out of respect for our relationship that we (being ODN and Invicta) downgraded back to our original PIAT rather than straight cut it. Now, its clear that the PIAT is not leading anywhere, and simply does not make sense to keep. Certainly, you can be a little sore about it. I'm not sure why its too much to expect that you at least remain civil and not resort to acting like a child. Its alright if you don't feel the same way, although usually I expect from from an alliance's MoFA. Edited September 25, 2009 by Twizzler Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Boris Posted September 25, 2009 Report Share Posted September 25, 2009 Yes, we are a different alliance. If you were really, you would more than likely have kept and eventually honored the treaties you dropped, to be fair. This mass treaty announcement at least shows that we, as an alliance, now have some balls. /me pulls out the electron microscope and throws ODN's midsection under it. After seeing the images produced by this modern piece of observation technology, I am afraid I must call your bluff on that one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zimmerwald1915 Posted September 25, 2009 Report Share Posted September 25, 2009 CN dictionary excerpt: Honor: a quality one obtains only when entering into a losing war knowing that it is a losing war Don't you love this game? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joracy Posted September 25, 2009 Report Share Posted September 25, 2009 If you were really, you would more than likely have kept and eventually honored the treaties you dropped, to be fair./me pulls out the electron microscope and throws ODN's midsection under it. After seeing the images produced by this modern piece of observation technology, I am afraid I must call your bluff on that one. No, as a different alliance we would take a different direction, and work to stream line our Foreign affairs instead of keeping treaties all over the place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yankees Empire Posted September 25, 2009 Report Share Posted September 25, 2009 If you were really, you would more than likely have kept and eventually honored the treaties you dropped, to be fair. What? Why should ODN keep these treaties when they don't represent ODN's relationship with these alliances? So they can get in the way of fighting with their allies should the time come, and you can all make your ODN jokes again? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thaone Posted September 25, 2009 Report Share Posted September 25, 2009 I can respect assertiveness, no matter which 'side' it comes from. Congratulations on not only cleaning up your treaties, but also on picking a direction & sticking to it. Ah, you stole my line and brought in a far more eloquent way. I'm at least also glad you choose a direction in your FA. I still hope your not going to do the same thing as Vanguard and cancel OUT, as although it has it's flaws is still a very useful treaty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChairmanHal Posted September 25, 2009 Report Share Posted September 25, 2009 Oh my, I think I just died from you amazing wit. Truly, you have made this thread a better place. He's also an expert on technology and its applications in warfare. Just ask him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
merlin Posted September 25, 2009 Report Share Posted September 25, 2009 If you were really, you would more than likely have kept and eventually honored the treaties you dropped, to be fair. uh huh. Sorry that we can't make your "fair" standards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Locke Posted September 25, 2009 Report Share Posted September 25, 2009 I'm pretty sure we'll all aware that ODN and Invicta once shared an MDP. It was only out of respect for our relationship that we (being ODN and Invicta) downgraded back to our original PIAT rather than straight cut it. Now, its clear that the PIAT is not leading anywhere, and simply does not make sense to keep. Certainly, you can be a little sore about it. I'm not sure why its too much to expect that you at least remain civil and not resort to acting like a child. Its alright if you don't feel the same way, although usually I expect from from an alliance's MoFA. Check your messages. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eden Taylor Posted September 25, 2009 Report Share Posted September 25, 2009 "Members are expected to be respectful of non-members and members alike"Did you accidentally breach Umbella's charter? Cool. It is not cool. We shall immediately begin nominations for his replacement as Triumvir. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haflinger Posted September 25, 2009 Report Share Posted September 25, 2009 I'm pretty sure we'll all aware that ODN and Invicta once shared an MDP. It was only out of respect for our relationship that we (being ODN and Invicta) downgraded back to our original PIAT rather than straight cut it. Now, its clear that the PIAT is not leading anywhere, and simply does not make sense to keep. We kept the PIAT because, at the time, your actions justified it. Why, after persuading us to keep it, you went on to ignore our government, is something of a mystery to me. Well, not the ignoring. I know why that happened. It's the first part. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aeternos Astramora Posted September 26, 2009 Report Share Posted September 26, 2009 Thats exactly how we view PIATs. But we've had a PIAT with Argent for a while now, and quite frankly, it's not going anywhere. Hence, it's not really a stepping stone is it? Exactly. While a better relation would have been nicer, it wasn't headed in that direction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeinousOne Posted September 26, 2009 Report Share Posted September 26, 2009 If you were really, you would more than likely have kept and eventually honored the treaties you dropped, to be fair./me pulls out the electron microscope and throws ODN's midsection under it. After seeing the images produced by this modern piece of observation technology, I am afraid I must call your bluff on that one. No one forgets which alliance you were part of during the last war. Seriously Boris, what the hell are you doing here trying to talk down to ODN? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BamaBuc Posted September 26, 2009 Report Share Posted September 26, 2009 CN dictionary excerpt:Honor: a quality one obtains only when entering into a losing war knowing that it is a losing war Not really. You don't see people telling brand-new alliances "lol you haven't fought a losing war yet, you're dishonorable." But when you've weaseled your way out of it three times in a row, then yeah, people are gonna want to see a demonstration before they believe it. -Bama Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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