nc1701 Posted August 9, 2009 Report Share Posted August 9, 2009 Ummm... Pointless e-lawyering is pointless e-lawyering. All this doctrine is, is an attempt to e-lawyer bandwaggoning into a good thing. Which I really can't say I see as a good thing, I also find it amusing that even the Sith are forced to e-lawyer there way into bandwaggoning. Guess they can't take the heat for just straight up bandwagonning... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Litler Posted August 9, 2009 Report Share Posted August 9, 2009 Ummm... Pointless e-lawyering is pointless e-lawyering. All this doctrine is, is an attempt to e-lawyer bandwaggoning into a good thing. Which I really can't say I see as a good thing, I also find it amusing that even the Sith are forced to e-lawyer there way into bandwaggoning. Guess they can't take the heat for just straight up bandwagonning... You don't see how "bandwagoning" is an invented concept used to weaken an enemy force by denying the legitimacy of joining parties? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevanovia Posted August 9, 2009 Report Share Posted August 9, 2009 I hate Optional Defense/Aggression treaties. It amuses me to see all of these hypocrites praising this doctrine but at the same time have recently signed a MDoAP, ODP or something of the sort.. This is a great document and returns us to our roots, back in the days of NAAC, back in the days when Ivan ruled the world with an iron fist. All of my respect goes to the NSO with the creation of this document. May you guys thrive forever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevin32891 Posted August 9, 2009 Report Share Posted August 9, 2009 So Ivan Moldavi is creating an alliance that does whatever the heck it wants? How novel. Yes... I can feel your anger. P.S. History shows that the Sith always do what they want. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stonewall Jaxon Posted August 9, 2009 Report Share Posted August 9, 2009 Moldavi Doctrine: We are actually a sovereign alliance. Thanks for the heads-up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haflinger Posted August 9, 2009 Report Share Posted August 9, 2009 I hate Optional Defense/Aggression treaties. It amuses me to see all of these hypocrites praising this doctrine but at the same time have recently signed a MDoAP, ODP or something of the sort.. Er, that's not hypocrisy. Some people (like me) sign ODPs because of the massive public pressure brought against alliances who get involved in a war who don't have one. It's not hypocrisy to support this doctrine while knowing that it would make ODPs completely obsolete if widely accepted, but still sign ODPs until that time happens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Priest Kahn Posted August 9, 2009 Report Share Posted August 9, 2009 I hate Optional Defense/Aggression treaties. It amuses me to see all of these hypocrites praising this doctrine but at the same time have recently signed a MDoAP, ODP or something of the sort.. This is a great document and returns us to our roots, back in the days of NAAC, back in the days when Ivan ruled the world with an iron fist. All of my respect goes to the NSO with the creation of this document. May you guys thrive forever. While I agree with your hatred of ODPs what is the problem with an MDoAP? To me, it is simply an MDP that additionally asserts that "these are some guys we WILL fight with, unless they done something stupid." Optional Aggression basically is a stronger, more focused Moldavi Doctrine. I will reiterate, however, that I feel it should only be attached to a more meaningful treaty and can't stand on it's own. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpoiL Posted August 9, 2009 Report Share Posted August 9, 2009 So Ivan Moldavi is creating an alliance that does whatever the heck it wants? How novel. It is a little shocking that you would be in an alliance that has it any other way. Yes, we will do what we want. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ejayrazz Posted August 9, 2009 Report Share Posted August 9, 2009 Ivan has already publicly stated he does not hold our allies accountable if they wish to leave us hanging. NSO is looking more admirable to join as the days progress. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan123123 Posted August 9, 2009 Report Share Posted August 9, 2009 (edited) Frankly, this is not unprecedented. STA and MK were not 'bandwaggoning' when they helped Opethian in that war. They were helping a friend they thought was being exploited. The actions of STA or MK in that war were not dishonorable. I am not sure what is wrong with NSO announcing they will exercise the very same sovereign right all alliances possess, and alliances have historically used to declare war. Or I could assume the NSO have the worst possible motivations and belittle them with almost-witty one-liners. That's really all that seems to occur these days when an alliance announces something interesting or unconventional or controversial. Edited August 9, 2009 by Dan123123 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hymenbreach Posted August 9, 2009 Report Share Posted August 9, 2009 Holy !@#$ you people are stupid as !@#$. This is just NSO saying that NSO can declare war if they want to. Literally what all of you can do whenever you want. If you keep !@#$%*ing talking about this Im going to flip out and cry at the sheer stupidity of all of you. You all make me god damn crazy! I HATE ALL OF YOU. Yes, that's all that it is. Just someone quietly stating the really obvious. What more could a master politician be playing at? Yes, I do have a tin foil hat. I agree with the man who said optional clauses in treaties are essentially useless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elric Posted August 9, 2009 Report Share Posted August 9, 2009 (edited) Why do you need a piece of paper to say you can do this? This is necessary because many people and alliances don't seem to understand the concept of free will and true sovereignty. See comment below. I doubt this catches on. But, it would be interesting if it did. It has to a certain extent (see CN:TE) I...didn't know this fact was news.I guess folks were right to point out that this thread reveals the lack of common sense in the cyberverse. This is the comment that I alluded to above... Nice to hear from you Ivan! Edited August 9, 2009 by BigKat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anenu Posted August 9, 2009 Report Share Posted August 9, 2009 on one hand this may allow alliances to protect the innocent on the other hand this may allow alliances to bandwagon to the winning side I will watch with interest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebel Virginia Posted August 9, 2009 Report Share Posted August 9, 2009 I'm not sure what all of you are getting all up in arms about. All NSO has said is that is reserves the option to join any war it sees fit. You all already have that option. Treaties have never been necessary to get involved in a war. They're merely excuses for most of you, forgetting that the bonds between alliances and even the ideals the war is fought upon are far more important. I really think some of you just like to attack NSO for whatever possible, even when it is nothing. Such silly grudges. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hymenbreach Posted August 9, 2009 Report Share Posted August 9, 2009 (edited) I'm not sure what all of you are getting all up in arms about. All NSO has said is that is reserves the option to join any war it sees fit. You all already have that option. Treaties have never been necessary to get involved in a war. They're merely excuses for most of you, forgetting that the bonds between alliances and even the ideals the war is fought upon are far more important. I really think some of you just like to attack NSO for whatever possible, even when it is nothing. Such silly grudges. If it that obvious... why state it? Forgive me for seeing more to this by a politico. I must be losing my mind. Edited August 9, 2009 by Hymenbreach Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KanaX Posted August 9, 2009 Report Share Posted August 9, 2009 on one hand this may allow alliances to protect the innocenton the other hand this may allow alliances to bandwagon to the winning side So you needed a permission to do these things before? I'm not surprised NSO is the alliance doing this move, but I can say I'm surprised that it didn't happen before. If NSO wants to defend someone from someone else, I don't think they need some treaty in order to do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heggo Posted August 9, 2009 Report Share Posted August 9, 2009 If it that obvious... why state it? Forgive me for seeing more to this by a politico. I must be losing my mind. Because sometimes those rights which you call "obvious" needs to be shouted to the world, to be put written so that they may be thrown in the faces of those who would deny us them. That said, yes, it is also a vast Sith conspiracy to ruin you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebel Virginia Posted August 9, 2009 Report Share Posted August 9, 2009 on one hand this may allow alliances to protect the innocenton the other hand this may allow alliances to bandwagon to the winning side I will watch with interest. That could have happened, doctrine or no doctrine. No other alliance has a similar policy in place, yet, what has prevented them from joining the winning side's bandwagon? Nothing. In fact, I've seen it done countless times before. You people are making a mountain out of nothing. Absolutely nothing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hymenbreach Posted August 9, 2009 Report Share Posted August 9, 2009 That said, yes, it is also a vast Sith conspiracy to ruin you. I knew it! But seriously, master politician makes obvious statement... is usually with unobvious motivation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevanovia Posted August 9, 2009 Report Share Posted August 9, 2009 I'm not sure what all of you are getting all up in arms about. All NSO has said is that is reserves the option to join any war it sees fit. You all already have that option. Treaties have never been necessary to get involved in a war. They're merely excuses for most of you, forgetting that the bonds between alliances and even the ideals the war is fought upon are far more important. I really think some of you just like to attack NSO for whatever possible, even when it is nothing. Such silly grudges. Because obviously this world needed to hear this announcement. It seems like people are looking for an official statement to tell them what to do at all times, Ivan recognized this and is using it to benefit the of residents of Planet Bob. People need to "officially" hear things in order to enact them, as sad as it sounds...it's true. Maybe Ivan can offer a doctrine in the future that can fix that problem as well Like I said before in another thread, when we look back we'll see that Vox Populi and New Sith Order saved this game. The sole reason for their existence is to make this world a better world. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heggo Posted August 9, 2009 Report Share Posted August 9, 2009 (edited) I knew it!But seriously, master politician makes obvious statement... is usually with unobvious motivation. Sometimes, a cigar is just a cigar. Edited August 9, 2009 by heggo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corinan Posted August 9, 2009 Report Share Posted August 9, 2009 Because obviously this world needed to hear this announcement. It seems like people are looking for an official statement to tell them what to do at all times, Ivan recognized this and is using it to benefit the of residents of Planet Bob. People need to "officially" hear things in order to enact them, as sad as it sounds...it's true. Maybe Ivan can offer a doctrine in the future that can fix that problem as well Like I said before in another thread, when we look back we'll see that Vox Populi and New Sith Order saved this game. The sole reason for their existence is to make this world a better world. I'm glad at least some can see that we're just trying to fight the good fight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heft Posted August 9, 2009 Report Share Posted August 9, 2009 We are heroes. I knew it!But seriously, master politician makes obvious statement... is usually with unobvious motivation. The Dark Lord is rarely so subtle as you seem to believe. The history of the NSO to date would also seem to say that we are, as an alliance, not usually very subtle. But if you'd like to accord us even more impressive attributes than we actually have, I suppose I shouldn't stop you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heggo Posted August 9, 2009 Report Share Posted August 9, 2009 We are heroes.The Dark Lord is rarely so subtle as you seem to believe. The history of the NSO to date would also seem to say that we are, as an alliance, not usually very subtle. But if you'd like to accord us even more impressive attributes than we actually have, I suppose I shouldn't stop you. Like I said. Sometimes, a cigar is just a cigar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archon Posted August 9, 2009 Report Share Posted August 9, 2009 Why are people still puzzling over this? If you actually read it, there are folks who hit the nail on the head a while ago... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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