James Wilson Posted July 3, 2009 Report Share Posted July 3, 2009 Well then change the name No, because one day this month or year I plan to make an asshat of the year award and I will be nominating NSO for it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chimaera Posted July 3, 2009 Report Share Posted July 3, 2009 That was the old CN, this is the new "fun" CN. Wanna join IAA? It's "fun"! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronSoldier820 Posted July 3, 2009 Report Share Posted July 3, 2009 I've been inactive for some time, so forgive me if upon my return my opinions are outdated. But even though NPO did use these methods to oppress the methods, I think they used them in the form of a corrupted way. Although returning to the wild days would prevent stagnation like that we saw in NPO's dominance for all that time, I'm a fan of the idea that we can do so with a little dignity intact. Just because NPO used those rules as reasons to attack alliances they wanted to doesn't mean we have to use them for the same purpose. I think they're, deep down, good rules that spread a little common decency. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duncan King Posted July 3, 2009 Report Share Posted July 3, 2009 Ah, the problem with your analysis is that you support the methodology that led to the resent global conflict and the two plus years of hegemonic impunity that preceded it.I personally believe a return to the "wild" days of the Cyberverse would be good for the community and I do not necessarily care for the conventions of those that would seek to use them to oppress the masses. So if I messaged every member of the NSO with a recruitment message of this kind, no one in your alliance would have a problem with it because having an issue would be "oppression"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kindom of Goon Posted July 3, 2009 Report Share Posted July 3, 2009 Well, if an apology has been issued in private as Moldavi has stated, I hope that TDO has been satisfied. I think Ivan was referring to the appology GOP recieved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shahenshah Posted July 3, 2009 Report Share Posted July 3, 2009 (edited) Another change I notice is the open discussion on OWF. The struggle against private-chan ftl diplomacy is paying off. Edited July 3, 2009 by shahenshah Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drostan Posted July 3, 2009 Report Share Posted July 3, 2009 The proper channels are to make a global announcement containing blatantly false accusations against NSO? That's an interesting modus operandi. I believe the global announcement came after they were thwarted in their first attempts to locate a representative willing to speak and obtain a proper apology. I think that is how most alliances would escalate the issue. If their attempts in private to obtain an apology were ignored they would post publically. If they did post publically first then that was surely a mistake but it is my understanding that those IRC logs precede and precipitated the global announcement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cookavich Posted July 3, 2009 Report Share Posted July 3, 2009 You forgot WTF. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivan Moldavi Posted July 3, 2009 Report Share Posted July 3, 2009 I've been inactive for some time, so forgive me if upon my return my opinions are outdated. But even though NPO did use these methods to oppress the methods, I think they used them in the form of a corrupted way. Although returning to the wild days would prevent stagnation like that we saw in NPO's dominance for all that time, I'm a fan of the idea that we can do so with a little dignity intact. Just because NPO used those rules as reasons to attack alliances they wanted to doesn't mean we have to use them for the same purpose. I think they're, deep down, good rules that spread a little common decency. As I have stated to some via private channels, I am aware that this was not carried out in the best possible manner and that it was in "poor taste", especially given the current political climate. The idea was that since I spout on and on about peace being the "Great Lie" of the Cyberverse that a natural target for such a message would be the "neutral" alliances. It was meant as a stunt, nothing more. It could have been handled better and it could have been addressed better after the fact. That doesn't mean that we will simply lie down at this point and allow the sheep to stampede us. We made an error in judgement but it is over and done with. We have acknowledged this and agreed not to do it again. That is it. For people to continue to go on about this being us trying to start a war is really missing the point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Wilson Posted July 3, 2009 Report Share Posted July 3, 2009 I will make it short as i care less who pissed of whom, who said this or that and i think some old guy from NPO explained this in detail already:There is only one good reason for war the wellfare of a Sphere. I watched GPA dying and Green becoming a wasteland, it will never happen in Aqua. By the way, is this the Grämlins DoS for TDO? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drostan Posted July 3, 2009 Report Share Posted July 3, 2009 As I have stated to some via private channels, I am aware that this was not carried out in the best possible manner and that it was in "poor taste", especially given the current political climate.The idea was that since I spout on and on about peace being the "Great Lie" of the Cyberverse that a natural target for such a message would be the "neutral" alliances. It was meant as a stunt, nothing more. It could have been handled better and it could have been addressed better after the fact. That doesn't mean that we will simply lie down at this point and allow the sheep to stampede us. We made an error in judgement but it is over and done with. We have acknowledged this and agreed not to do it again. That is it. For people to continue to go on about this being us trying to start a war is really missing the point. I think that with this, this discussion has come to as much of an end as it is going to. We know what has happened and we have seen the varied responses. It is for the parties involved to decide what is and is not appropriate at this point. I wish both parties good luck in sorting this mess out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rabonnobar Posted July 3, 2009 Report Share Posted July 3, 2009 (edited) I've only read the first page, about to start on the 27 others. I'd just like to say that, TDO, GPA, and etc., I hope you stand up for yourselves. It'd be nice to see some non-neutral alliances actually stand up to bullies this time also (referencing the GPA slaughter). I'd be very tempted to join TDO (ex-CDS brothers, etc.) to help you guys. Not that that's an official statement, not that I care if you take it that way. Pathetic, NSO. Edited July 3, 2009 by rabonnobar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kowalski Posted July 3, 2009 Report Share Posted July 3, 2009 Wanna join IAA? It's "fun"! OMG MORE POACHING! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramneta Posted July 3, 2009 Report Share Posted July 3, 2009 As I have stated to some via private channels, I am aware that this was not carried out in the best possible manner and that it was in "poor taste", especially given the current political climate.The idea was that since I spout on and on about peace being the "Great Lie" of the Cyberverse that a natural target for such a message would be the "neutral" alliances. It was meant as a stunt, nothing more. It could have been handled better and it could have been addressed better after the fact. That doesn't mean that we will simply lie down at this point and allow the sheep to stampede us. We made an error in judgement but it is over and done with. We have acknowledged this and agreed not to do it again. That is it. For people to continue to go on about this being us trying to start a war is really missing the point. Thanks for the apology. Hopefully it will be accepted by the wider senate, as I believe it should. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shahenshah Posted July 3, 2009 Report Share Posted July 3, 2009 (edited) *Edit: Wait, is that an apology? Edit: If Ivan and TDO thinks it is, then its GG, Drama's over ppl. Edited July 3, 2009 by shahenshah Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HellAngel Posted July 3, 2009 Report Share Posted July 3, 2009 Haha, nice try, Ivan Moldavi. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cairna Posted July 3, 2009 Report Share Posted July 3, 2009 I strongly disapprove of these actions, and expect both Viktor and Doppleganger to offer an apology. Shame on Corinan for allowing them to get away with this sory of behavior. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronSoldier820 Posted July 3, 2009 Report Share Posted July 3, 2009 *Edit: Wait, is that an apology? Good enough for me, we've all argued our points and I find it an acceptable concession. As for me, I'll concede that I was overly bold in my analysis. For a newly returning player, I'm not exactly in the best position to judge who wants war with who. That was merely the way it looked to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hizzy Posted July 3, 2009 Report Share Posted July 3, 2009 I strongly disapprove of these actions, and expect both Viktor and Doppleganger to offer an apology. Shame on Corinan for allowing them to get away with this sory of behavior. Ang god help them if BOTH OF THEM don't apologize! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramneta Posted July 3, 2009 Report Share Posted July 3, 2009 *Edit: Wait, is that an apology?Edit: If Ivan and TDO thinks it is, then its GG, Drama's over ppl. 1. He said it was poor judgment. 2. He said it will not happen again. Those were the two most important parts for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jesterxo Posted July 3, 2009 Report Share Posted July 3, 2009 1. He said it was poor judgment.2. He said it will not happen again. Those were the two most important parts for me. Yeah, but he didn't mention anything about the fact that they blatantly disrepsected TDO in their message of "poor judgement". I'm glad to see that you can have some peace in this but as for me and as for ALOT of other senators in TDO this means nothing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finch Posted July 3, 2009 Report Share Posted July 3, 2009 Im going to have to agree with Steel here, I will not let what happened to green happen to aqua so good luck NSO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Electron Sponge Posted July 3, 2009 Report Share Posted July 3, 2009 I believe the global announcement came after they were thwarted in their first attempts to locate a representative willing to speak and obtain a proper apology. I think that is how most alliances would escalate the issue. If their attempts in private to obtain an apology were ignored they would post publically. If they did post publically first then that was surely a mistake but it is my understanding that those IRC logs precede and precipitated the global announcement. First off, they wanted an apology directly from Ivan from what I understand. They were told Ivan wasn't available on IRC very often and their best bet in contacting him would be via private message. Instead of doing so, they've continued to sit on IRC asking for Ivan every so often. I'm not sure how else NSO is supposed to get it through their heads that Ivan wasn't on IRC. They have been talked to by senior members of NSO on IRC, and told as much. Since GOP has gotten an apology, that shows that NSO is indeed contrite in this situation and are willing to make amends as such. TDO has exacerbated the situation with their hardheaded insistence on getting some sort of powwow in real time with the Dark Lord of the Sith from what I can see. It appears to me that what they are looking for isn't just an apology but attention and acknowledgement from one of the more (in)famous figures around. While it may behoove the Sith to apologize it isn't up to them to provide TDO with some sort of 'daily affirmation'. I can tell you that TDO's handling of this has been one of the more inept pieces of diplomacy I have ever seen. The timing of the post is immaterial - the content of the post is what really matters. Again, what TDO said in the original post was at best a confused misrepresentation of what is going on and at worst a blatant lie meant to decieve the rest of you as a group. PS to Cairna: Corinan=Doppelganger. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cairna Posted July 3, 2009 Report Share Posted July 3, 2009 PS to Cairna: Corinan=Doppelganger. Well thank you, mister wonderful. I can tell you that TDO's handling of this has been one of the more inept pieces of diplomacy I have ever seen. Everyone wants to take on the big man, and given that chance they've been a bit over-zealous in their pursuit of it.Being neutral just doesn't get you that much practice in the fine art of diplomacy I guess :/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shahenshah Posted July 3, 2009 Report Share Posted July 3, 2009 (edited) 1. He said it was poor judgment.2. He said it will not happen again. Those were the two most important parts for me. Like I said, if both parties think its cool, then its cool. If you feel you have been treated with respect, then I guess neutral drama dies in a day and we're back to NPO Terms drama. Edited July 3, 2009 by shahenshah Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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