Random Posted June 14, 2009 Report Share Posted June 14, 2009 OOC: Wow, I seem to have ... uhh ... broke the forums. Sorry about that. The mess that appears in between my and capitalC's post is the later part of my post. I was wondering about that. Took me awhile to figure it out too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tulafaras Posted June 14, 2009 Report Share Posted June 14, 2009 Really you are the first person to tell me that, please post someone else stating this fact. Cause I am going on the original post but if it is really the other way around then I apologize. did you even read the thread? it came up at least 20 times so far, and is also clearly stated in the terms. The phrase used is: "only nations above 1k tech at the signing of these terms may pay". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpiderJerusalem Posted June 14, 2009 Report Share Posted June 14, 2009 (edited) OOC: Wow, I seem to have ... uhh ... broke the forums. Sorry about that. The mess that appears in between my and capitalC's post is the later part of my post. [OOC]You killed the forums. You !@#$%^&! EDIT: Wow, didn't know that word was censored [/OOC] Edited June 14, 2009 by SpiderJerusalem Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingzog Posted June 14, 2009 Report Share Posted June 14, 2009 OOC: Wow, I seem to have ... uhh ... broke the forums. Sorry about that. The mess that appears in between my and capitalC's post is the later part of my post. What did you do, young man?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kill Joy Posted June 14, 2009 Report Share Posted June 14, 2009 OOC: Wow, I seem to have ... uhh ... broke the forums. Sorry about that. The mess that appears in between my and capitalC's post is the later part of my post. It was a valiant effort to kill this monstrous thread, and for that I commend you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seerow Posted June 14, 2009 Report Share Posted June 14, 2009 Unfortunately, Seerow is not negotiating with the NPO. They can only consider offers that are actually presented to them by the forces they are at war with. Unfortunately this is true. However I did ask as a hypothetical, and who knows maybe the people doing the negotiating could see it as a reasonable alternative, especially if NPO members voice support for it here (or behind the scenes either way). So far every response I've seen from both sides is positive, but I don't think anyone in a position for the negotiation has actually commented. As an aside, I just thought of the way to resolve the issue of what is 'reasonable' for reparations, to make sure the amount is large enough to be considerable, while leaving leeway for if the nations really are so trashed they absolutely cannot send aid at all. -For the duration of terms, all aid sent to NPO nations is to be tracked. For every 3million dollars received by an NPO nation, 6million must be paid to Karma forces, or the equivalent in the form of 200 tech. For every 50 tech received by an NPO nation, 100 tech must be paid to Karma forces. Amounts received by the NPO will be calculated every 10th day, and forwarded to appropriate NPO leadership for resolution. Going by this, the reparations could be nothing if the NPO just chooses to stop using financial aid, or it could well turn out to balloon to be higher than the reps currently proposed if it turns out that the NPO is better able to bootstrap itself than it thinks. Either way, with this suggestion the amount of the terms is dictated entirely in clear terms by the losing alliance, but imposes a very strict penalty and will serve the purpose of slowing the rebuilding process, while leaving it there as an option. Once again however I am just a neutral party with no say in the terms. Man I should have grown up to be an evil overlord. Being a nobody sucks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emperor Khan Posted June 14, 2009 Report Share Posted June 14, 2009 138 pages and it boils down to three posts...The peace offer sucks The peace offer is fine The peace offer is not harsh enough. Rinse lather repeat You're right, but you failed to point out that thousands simply don't care. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Severus Snape Posted June 14, 2009 Report Share Posted June 14, 2009 OOC: Wow, I seem to have ... uhh ... broke the forums. Sorry about that. The mess that appears in between my and capitalC's post is the later part of my post. I've fixed it. It seems the table BBCode doesn't agree with the quote BBCode. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tromp Posted June 14, 2009 Report Share Posted June 14, 2009 That's terms until February.You willing to wait that long to see what NPO's allies do diplomatically? Is that a threat? OT: Seriously, this thread isn't worth 130+ pages. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haflinger Posted June 14, 2009 Report Share Posted June 14, 2009 I've fixed it. It seems the table BBCode doesn't agree with the quote BBCode. Seems so; I put the 8.00 back though. Lesson for all: when snipping out parts of tables to quote, don't leave the cell tags in place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haflinger Posted June 14, 2009 Report Share Posted June 14, 2009 (edited) Is that a threat? No. I just don't think putting the political game on pause for a year because too many people are scared of the NPO is a good idea. Edited June 14, 2009 by Haflinger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seerow Posted June 14, 2009 Report Share Posted June 14, 2009 No.I just don't think putting the political game on pause for a year because too many people are scared of the NPO is a good idea. There's plenty of room for politics outside of the NPO. There's been enough drama stirring within karma for the last month or so that I'm sure we'll see something interesting come of that before NPO is in a possition of power again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haflinger Posted June 14, 2009 Report Share Posted June 14, 2009 There's plenty of room for politics outside of the NPO. There's been enough drama stirring within karma for the last month or so that I'm sure we'll see something interesting come of that before NPO is in a possition of power again. There are an awful lot of people tied politically to the NPO. You want to make us watchers, that's fine. We'll enjoy our popcorn I'm sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tromp Posted June 14, 2009 Report Share Posted June 14, 2009 I wanted to comment again, but Seerow pretty much covered it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rush Sykes Posted June 14, 2009 Report Share Posted June 14, 2009 Let's try something constructive here: The two weeks war for any peace mode nations is plain and simple an attempt to force large parts of Pacifica to re roll. Don't come with the argument that "the same was done to GATO" because first GATO is not at war with Pacifica and second those terms were never carried out. The hard liners in the Karma coalition need to grow up and drop that requirement. Furthermore i propose a white peace for Pacifica and payment from the Hardliners in Karma to Pacifica from 100 million for each and every page of this topic. End this cycle of violence here and now. Yes, because it clearly would make more sense for a nation at ZI with built-in improvements, wonders, and a stable trade circle ....to re-roll...Jesus, learn the game mechanincs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OrangeBlood Posted June 14, 2009 Report Share Posted June 14, 2009 Like Moo said in the OP, it was considered. However, he (and the rest of the Imperial Leadership) knows that it would be wrong to do so. Expelling people because of foreign pressure is not only a breach of your sovereignty, but also betraying those you expel, especially when those expelled would be people who have been loyal and dedicated to Pacifica for a very long time. This is laughable. NPO has made other alliances do EXACTLY this. See Colonel Cooper or your IO's for details....perhaps, try Dilber. If you choose to not to expel them, that's fine and you will get what you get...which is the same you offered to other alliances who were at the mercy of the NPO simply because the NPO was much larger and stronger and you were able to curbstomp those who didn't comply. You targeted GUN, a recently pounded alliance (BLEU-GUN war) and gave us the choice of expelling a member (wrongly, I might add, since it was clear that he was not guilty of what you accused him....but then you didn't want to hear it or negotiate whatsoever) or becoming "an enemy of the NPO". Since first reading this thread, I'd thought the terms harsh. Even overly harsh for NPO. However, it's now clear to me that NPO is only using ploys to retain as much as they can so they can resume their policies once they rebuild. You've learned nothing from the fact that so much of Planet Bob has risen up against you. You've learned nothing from the fact that so many have deserted you. You've learned nothing from the fact that so many have taken so much joy in seeing NPO beaten down. This war was about NPO seeing the error of their ways and realizing that power comes with responsibility, which NPO should wield with wisdom. NPO did not and now suffers for it. It appears that their suffering has not resulted in the aquisition of any wisdom, just the invocation whiny "poor us" excuses, attempts to subvert the point of the war and a complete blindness to the fact that NPO brought the whole thing upon themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seerow Posted June 14, 2009 Report Share Posted June 14, 2009 There are an awful lot of people tied politically to the NPO. You want to make us watchers, that's fine. We'll enjoy our popcorn I'm sure. So you're saying your only tie is to the NPO and that you would go to war for no other reason than to attack with/defend the NPO, rather than making new ties and exploring the world of CN and wars that don't revolve around Pacifica? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King DrunkWino Posted June 14, 2009 Report Share Posted June 14, 2009 (edited) There are an awful lot of people tied politically to the NPO. You want to make us watchers, that's fine. We'll enjoy our popcorn I'm sure. Invitca isn't only politically tied to the NPO. I believe his point is that before the NPO is in a position to exact revenge (if they go that route,) there's most likely going to be some new drama happenings. /cause it sounds like you're saying that you're only interested in FA when the NPO is involved. I don't know much about Invitca, but I'm fairly sure that isn't the case. Edited June 14, 2009 by King DrunkWino Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haflinger Posted June 14, 2009 Report Share Posted June 14, 2009 So you're saying your only tie is to the NPO and that you would go to war for no other reason than to attack with/defend the NPO, rather than making new ties and exploring the world of CN and wars that don't revolve around Pacifica? No, but our relationship with them is important, and when they're under surrender terms isn't an appropriate time to discuss it with them. And there are other factors at work that you don't know anything about, that I'm not going to go into here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AirMe Posted June 14, 2009 Report Share Posted June 14, 2009 There are an awful lot of people tied politically to the NPO. You want to make us watchers, that's fine. We'll enjoy our popcorn I'm sure. Don't blame the rest of the world for your diplomatic and political deficiencies. That's just silly. No one should tie their alliances future to just one horse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarriorConcept Posted June 14, 2009 Report Share Posted June 14, 2009 So you're saying your only tie is to the NPO and that you would go to war for no other reason than to attack with/defend the NPO, rather than making new ties and exploring the world of CN and wars that don't revolve around Pacifica? They found their new GGA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scythegfx Posted June 14, 2009 Report Share Posted June 14, 2009 Oh, so Elyat is Doitzel... I was wondering where he had run off to. Thanks for the memo, guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seerow Posted June 14, 2009 Report Share Posted June 14, 2009 No, but our relationship with them is important, and when they're under surrender terms isn't an appropriate time to discuss it with them.And there are other factors at work that you don't know anything about, that I'm not going to go into here. You just said "No, you're wrong, except about everything you just said which you're right about" Really you're saying your relationship with the NPO is so important to you that you will put all other politics on hold until they are done with their terms and are once again able to play fully. I'm going to go out on a limb and say that's your own fault for holding them so important that you can't think or act independently. I guess WC's right. NPO found its new GGA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elegarth Posted June 14, 2009 Report Share Posted June 14, 2009 OK, interesting announcement, let's see the rebuttal. None so far... To be honest, this thread has grown huge and half of it lacks content... And above all, I wonder hos many people with so many weeks, months or years caring for a nation doesn't knows how the aid / economic system works... *yawns* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zzzptm Posted June 14, 2009 Report Share Posted June 14, 2009 Terms like the ones mentioned in the OP make it clear that NPO's opponents want to crush it. I don't see the hypocrisy in that. I think that was the intention of Karma from the very beginning of this war: Crush NPO after a stern talking-to. So NPO wants mercy, eh? I reckon if they come out and fight, there may be more than a few Karma alliances willing to waive part or all of their reps. The rest will demand payment in full, but those numbers quoted are subject to the whims of Karma in a downward direction... unless NPO tries to wriggle out of them, in which case they pay 'em all in full. That's my guess, at any rate. NPO made a public appeal for support. So far, it doesn't seem like the world is entirely in favor of NPO's position. Quite a few, a majority even, think it's well-deserved punishment for the idea of NPO that has haunted many of us for a very very long time. Let me make this suggestion: If the *idea* of NPO is more important than the nations of NPO, NPO should disband or go guerrilla. The idea of NPO will live on and on and on: it will always be what it once was. If NPO surrenders, the idea of NPO will die. It will not be what it once was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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