USN Treaty Announcement

[Eskimo]

Always sad to see treaties or parts of treaties go away. But good luck in the future USN.

[Svendonia]

Shamed!!!

Sorry I missed you the first time... so is there anyone left that hasnt posted here that is still playing at this point?

BTW well said Fronz

I do believe neither someone nor Fly have graced this thread

[rodrod]

I do believe neither someone nor Fly have graced this thread

Someone's pretty inactive these days.

[Regent of Omerta]

Then don't post up criticizing USN (as in CA alliances not your personally), when in turn you don't want other criticizing your posts because you think others don't have the full information

Heed your own advice here as well.

USN left without any notification on the Maroonity forums. I know this because I'm one of the site admins. I am also in all of the Maroonity IRC channels and I log them. No announcement on there, no advance notice, no discussion...nothing. Does this satisfy that CA does have all of the information we need to make an informed decision?

As far as having an issue with you personally, when I do, trust me there will be no mistaking it.

Edited June 12, 2009 by Regent of Omerta

[Krim Xephon]

Expected/10 Good luck to USN in the future.

[IBFTD]

Expected/10 Good luck to USN in the future.

I can say most do not know who I am, I will say I was one of the original founding members of USN.... That being said, I am not improtant, however, the USN no longer embodies what we founded back in 2006...... I really don't care much for any posts in this thread, however, let the USN be put on notice, there are members dedicated to putting the alliance back on track.......All I can say is, when I left, our membership was over 190 members and left to your leadership you are now less than 85 strong... Congrats for keeping the USN significant, don't worry, we'll resurect it for what is was.

FS'

sc

[Xiao Weng]

*waves to xiao, free, canadian, shamed, kait...*

This feels like a family reunion, but I'm sad to see that all we came together for is drama. I know very little about this, but I can tell you that as someone who feels lucky to reside in a united sphere, I am not happy with the direction this thread took. I'll just wish my former alliance, and our good allies on Maroon, good luck; I am confident that you all will be able to overcome your differences and that the Maroon sphere will continue to prosper.

All we came together for is drama?

Someone forgets the old Maroon. Drama is what we lived for.

As to Marine...I saw him swimming around a few months back. I dunno if he remained or went on to greener pastures.

And the lawn's all right, Kait. The darned kids wouldn't get off it, so I moved and salted the earth when I left. Gya ha.

[beale947]

I can say most do not know who I am, I will say I was one of the original founding members of USN.... That being said, I am not improtant, however, the USN no longer embodies what we founded back in 2006...... I really don't care much for any posts in this thread, however, let the USN be put on notice, there are members dedicated to putting the alliance back on track.......All I can say is, when I left, our membership was over 190 members and left to your leadership you are now less than 85 strong... Congrats for keeping the USN significant, don't worry, we'll resurect it for what is was.

FS'

sc

Yeah. Just try.... Seriously all this Coup talk is pathetic and how is it right to say it to us and for it to be ok? I don't think so. It's a threat and an attack on our sovereignty.

If those members wanted to keep us on track, then they shouldn't have left. If they care so much from USN why did they leave? They say they left because they didn't like the direction we were going, and now threaten to coup us for that reason. Well why didn't you stay and change it when you could.

Hypocrasy.... thats what it is.

Edited June 13, 2009 by beale947

[Xiphosis]

I find it easy to assume that this isnt the first time they have pursued USN with such aggression.

Assumptions make a moron out of everyone. We've all left USN alone except when they've failed to show up for votes, then the outrageous request that they send a member of government over besides Cora was made. Then RedvBlue(Sven), and later Fronz and others came over.

I think you could love an color but not the alliances who are there, I think the problem is because you guys see Maroon and Chestnut Accords as the same thing and forgot that Chestnut Accords is just a bloc not the color sphere.

Actually, Chestnuts includes almost the entirety of the team of the team. And will include even more of it in the coming months.

Many of our smaller alliances that sought entrance were turned down by USN because they were against protectorates joining. All of the alliances (TYR, AoC, CRAP, TOH) were protected by Maroon alliances, except TOH. I fully intend to invite and see many more of them become full-fledged Chestnut members now that the ever present USN veto is gone.

That they have the audacity to act like we were trampling on their sovereignty when we've sat by while Cora talked crap about us for our affiliations with SF and voted down everything we tried to do to expand team unity is a joke, and is bound to provoke the reaction they're getting.

Some of us sunk a lot of time into seeing this team unite, that OOC ties to CDT have pulled one of our oldest alliances out of an unprecedented bloc in what used to be called The Balkans (and for good reason) is naturally going to seriously piss off us older guys who remember what it's like to have military divisions within the team.

That it largely is the because of one person just makes it all the worse. USN was asked for the first time to actually uphold CA this last war, and it's failure to act and simply sit by while the rest of us fought disgusted their gov and many members so much they left rather than fight what they, and people before them, consider an unwinnable fight to get a pro-maroon Admin Council in. Spite them if you want, but they didn't leave for no reason.

I'm looking forward to seeing USN's up-and-coming PR doctor spin this one. I'm sure he'll give it a go. I might even get a witty Haflinger reply, oh joy!

[Midkn1ght]

Assumptions make a moron out of everyone. We've all left USN alone except when they've failed to show up for votes, then the outrageous request that they send a member of government over besides Cora was made. Then RedvBlue(Sven), and later Fronz and others came over.

Actually, Chestnuts includes almost the entirety of the team of the team. And will include even more of it in the coming months.

Many of our smaller alliances that sought entrance were turned down by USN because they were against protectorates joining. All of the alliances (TYR, AoC, CRAP, TOH) were protected by Maroon alliances, except TOH. I fully intend to invite and see many more of them become full-fledged Chestnut members now that the ever present USN veto is gone.

That they have the audacity to act like we were trampling on their sovereignty when we've sat by while Cora talked crap about us for our affiliations with SF and voted down everything we tried to do to expand team unity is a joke, and is bound to provoke the reaction they're getting.

Some of us sunk a lot of time into seeing this team unite, that OOC ties to CDT have pulled one of our oldest alliances out of an unprecedented bloc in what used to be called The Balkans (and for good reason) is naturally going to seriously piss off us older guys who remember what it's like to have military divisions within the team.

That it largely is the because of one person just makes it all the worse. USN was asked for the first time to actually uphold CA this last war, and it's failure to act and simply sit by while the rest of us fought disgusted their gov and many members so much they left rather than fight what they, and people before them, consider an unwinnable fight to get a pro-maroon Admin Council in. Spite them if you want, but they didn't leave for no reason.

I'm looking forward to seeing USN's up-and-coming PR doctor spin this one. I'm sure he'll give it a go. I might even get a witty Haflinger reply, oh joy!

This. But clearly, since Xiph is evil, and wookies aren't from Endor, you must ignore the truth, and just continue screaming folks are picking on USN for ignoring a MDP bloc, and then with no notice saying they value us and CDT the same, but then cancel on their roommates.

Good luck in the future USN, but you've hurts some folks who've put in a lot of effort in unity with this slap in the face. Hope it's worth it to you.

[SpacingOutMan]

Xiph pretty much ended this thread. Let's all just end it here... the horse has been beaten, and Xiph has pretty much incinerated the carcass with what I can tell to be an accurate (and honest) depiction as to how many Marooners feel. Of course not everyone feels that way, but that is neither here nor there.

[dejarue]

So far as I am concerned we are still a Pro-Maroon Alliance and intend to stay that way as long as we see fit. Good day.

How can you say this with a straight face? Honestly...

[Mythology]

I think you missed the point of my post. It is their decision, they are sovereign, I left, yes i agree with you on those points that is why i said nothing about them. However I feel this whole angry thread could have been avoided if they had done a better job clearing up things in private with the other Chestnut Signatories. As far as I know, there were absolutely no attempts on their part to hold discussions or clear up the situation, sure that's their choice, but now they have an 12 page public thread, with the international community feeding off things former members and disgruntled signatories are saying.

I must say it is sad to see it has come to this.

I'm sorry to have missunderstood you Fronz - I stand Corrected

[Dexomega]

My final words here are that some of you are getting quite heated about something that could be reversed. However seeing the REACTIONS of many of these "passionate" leaders of Maroon I really am not quite sure how to take this. Right now I make this clear that Maroon has no place to demand answers from us. We are a sovereign governed Alliance whose decisions were definitely not made lightly. Leaving the Chestnut Accords was a thought out decision by the rightful government of USN which many old members LEFT. By leaving many of these members sealed the fate of USN. The vibes that I get (I have not been here long) are disturbing at best. Between the flaming and just the plain attitude of leaving a bloc that is AFFILIATED with Maroon, not PART of it I get the feeling you are attempting to force something on us. The Bloc was just something we needed to shed while we get our shattered Foreign Policy in order.

That said, anything that happens here on out is the sole responsiblity of the rightful government of USN, not other Maroon alliances. As I said, some of the leaders have shone quite poor public faces here.

I'll say one last thing, because of this thread my vote won't be as quick as I thought it would've been.

Edited June 13, 2009 by Dexomega

[fluffyewunga]

USN left without any notification on the Maroonity forums. I know this because I'm one of the site admins. I am also in all of the Maroonity IRC channels and I log them. No announcement on there, no advance notice, no discussion...nothing. Does this satisfy that CA does have all of the information we need to make an informed decision?

This is an outright lie. Noticification was posted in the maroon forums over 72 hours prior to this thread being posted. Kait and Allied Threat both posted it in and a link was the maroonity posted in the maroonity channel (which i have logs to prove) If it has now been removed then i think that speaks for it's self. http://maroonity.com/forum/index.php?topic=60.0

Edit: Link to thread of notification added

Edited June 13, 2009 by fluffy ewunga

[Xiphosis]

that is AFFILIATED with Maroon, not PART of it

Actually, membership hinges on being part of Maroon, Chestnuts is a part of this team.

[General Argent Doom]

On the one hand, it deeply saddens me to see USN make this announcement and choose to cancel on a treaty that took so long to actually happen.

On the other hand, it is the first USN announcement I have seen in over 2 years of having been a member that has reached a page count of double figures.

[Raphael Beau Pre]

Some of us sunk a lot of time into seeing this team unite, that OOC ties to CDT have pulled one of our oldest alliances out of an unprecedented bloc in what used to be called The Balkans (and for good reason) is naturally going to seriously piss off us older guys who remember what it's like to have military divisions within the team.

Considering Monos Archeins entry into Superfriends, do you people really want to keep dragging OOC ties into this thread?

Also, I see GOD/RIA/MA getting pissed off over this act, does this mean we can assume that if the Chestnut Accords ever come into conflict with SF that we will see all of you abandoning SF rather than Maroon? *Thinks Rok/Fark should take note of the answer*

The maroon alliances have shown here exactly why USN was right to choose the way they did.

Edited June 13, 2009 by Raphael Beau Pre

[Goose]

This is an outright lie. Noticification was posted in the maroon forums over 72 hours prior to this thread being posted. Kait and Allied Threat both posted it in and a link was the maroonity posted in the maroonity channel (which i have logs to prove) If it has now been removed then i think that speaks for it's self. http://maroonity.com/forum/index.php?topic=60.0

Edit: Link to thread of notification added

I believe it was more a question of a lack of any discussion with anyone to try and rectify the issues. I can't say that CSN feels slighted as our hours of discussion prior to the cancellation of our MADP made it abundently clear where the other stood. However, there was no attempt to contact any of the other signatories and discuss the issues with them so that attempts could be made to rectify them. They only got "After much discussion within the USN Government we have decided that our path no longer follows that of Chestnut and its signatories."

EDIT: I fail at quoting properly.

Edited June 13, 2009 by Goose

[Xiphosis]

Considering Monos Archeins entry into Superfriends, do you people really want to keep dragging OOC ties into this thread?

Yeah, let's. Far as I'm aware Monos Archeins OOC ties to RoK came after their entry, and I'm the one who sponsored them for membership, not Ragnarok, considering I've always had an eye out for them since they started up and considered them to have a huge amount of potential, and they'd become pretty good friends with most of SF by the time. They, RnR, and FOK were most consistently brought up when we talked about expansion.

So aside from the false foundation of your comparison, name one alliance, or treaty, MA was dragged away from by entering SF. Your rage is hilarious, almost moreso than your ignorance of the situation.

Edit: I actually checked, and GOD didn't sponsor MA. However, MA was also sponsored after Hoo left - Dec 31st, 2008, by Rishnokof and Gen_Lee of the Triumvirate following Hoo stepping down. So basically, your point is still completely off base.

Edited June 13, 2009 by Xiphosis

[Petrovich4]

Hmmm, this didn't turn out too well.

I respect USN's decision but obviously feel for the other Maroon alliances. May I remind all the maroon alliances that having an entity on the same colour sphere that is different from your perspective is not the end of the world (i.e. MASH and purple). It will be disappointing but you all can move on. It will only be the end of the world if you choose it to be and continue to harbour these feelings. I suggest a tea party or at least a movie you all can watch together. May I suggest 'TAGA-Waga', 'The Commies are Coming!!!!', 'lolGuard' or simply the cult favourite 'Tulak'

- Archon Draka

[Raphael Beau Pre]

Yeah, let's. Far as I'm aware Monos Archeins OOC ties to RoK came after their entry,

For the record, MAs OOC ties to Rangarok were in place before they entered Superfriends, they just became tighter after entry.

So aside from the false foundation of your comparison, name one alliance, or treaty, MA was dragged away from by entering SF. Your rage is hilarious, almost moreso than your ignorance of the situation.

Show me where I said there was a conflict, I asked the question of yourselves, MA and RIA if you valued the Maroon sphere above Superfriends or not, from your attitude in this thread I would be concerned for SF if they ever find themselves in that situation as obviously Maroon should come first for you all, right?

But if you want a specific example, how about MAs MDoAP with Valhalla. Two alliances in superfriends (Fark and RIA) chose to attack Valhalla, where was MA to defend them?

Edit: I actually checked, and GOD didn't sponsor MA. However, MA was also sponsored after Hoo left - Dec 31st, 2008, by Rishnokof and Gen_Lee of the Triumvirate following Hoo stepping down. So basically, your point is still completely off base.

Show me where I said that Hoo was still in Ragnarok at the time MA entered...oh wait...I didn't.

Your argument is that Coras OOC ties are relevant to USNs decision here. My argument is that Superfriends are hardly in a position to be throwing around accusations relating to OOC ties considering Hoos OOC ties to Monos Archein meant that some of your members took MA a lot more seriously than they otherwise would have done.

tl;dr bringing OOC into this is stupid, but I don't mind coming down to your level if thats where you want to argue this.

Edited June 13, 2009 by Raphael Beau Pre

[Xiphosis]

For the record, MAs OOC ties to Rangarok were in place before they entered Superfriends, they just became tighter after entry.

Bull.

Show me where I said there was a conflict,

You compared the two. Cora's OOC ties conflict with USN's Maroon ties. Kait's do not conflict with her ties, nor did MA joining SF conflict or drag her away from any other treaty.

But if you want a specific example, how about MAs MDoAP with Valhalla. Two alliances in superfriends (Fark and RIA) chose to attack Valhalla, where was MA to defend them?

That treaty was dumped long before the war. Valhalla tried to play Superfriends a couple of times rather shallowly, they had no friends among us.

Show me where I said that Hoo was still in Ragnarok at the time MA entered...oh wait...I didn't

You implied it was MA's tie to RoK's OOC that led to them joining. I proved this not to be the case, as the tie was gone. I further proved that my own relationship was, in no way, related to the OOC ties to RoK. As a point of fact I was present when the two met, as a supporting ally for MA's interests in a war they were fighting against one of RoK's buddies.

If anyones qualified to speak on it, I am. And I'm saying the situations aren't comparable, and your point is a load of it. Kait is a dictator. Hoo was a dictator. They founded and led their alliances as such. It was part of what made us friends. Cora is not. USN is democratic. That her OOC ties have dictated their foreign policy for almost a year with little being said out of politeness is a total sham, and frankly, most of us are tired of it.

The least she could do is own up in public as she did in the past, in private. And I'll thank you to stop the poor spin job.

[popsumpot]

You implied it was MA's tie to RoK's OOC that led to them joining. I proved this not to be the case, as the tie was gone. I further proved that my own relationship was, in no way, related to the OOC ties to RoK. As a point of fact I was present when the two met, as a supporting ally for MA's interests in a war they were fighting against one of RoK's buddies.

If anyones qualified to speak on it, I am. And I'm saying the situations aren't comparable, and your point is a load of it. Kait is a dictator. Hoo was a dictator. They founded and led their alliances as such. It was part of what made us friends. Cora is not. USN is democratic. That her OOC ties have dictated their foreign policy for almost a year with little being said out of politeness is a total sham, and frankly, most of us are tired of it.

The least she could do is own up in public as she did in the past, in private. And I'll thank you to stop the poor spin job.

You accuse him of spinning the facts, yet you're the one here trying to spin the OOC ties? Why, is Cora's ties suddenly incriminating because her alliance members voted for them? It is a democracy you know, and it's not exactly a secret. If USN members didn't approve, they wouldn't have voted for her.

You have this misconception that everything Cora does is following directions handed down to her. This isn't the case. Cora is her own leader, and she leads her alliance in her way. Cora is no puppet, and pinning everything that happens on Cora's OOC ties is the sham here.

[Xiphosis]

It is a democracy you know, and it's not exactly a secret.

Not outside of USN, no, but we don't vote.