Borimir Resurrected Posted June 12, 2009 Report Share Posted June 12, 2009 Altheus, I gota head to a meeting right now and pay the bills, however expect a Freelancer type response when I get back.. The World will love it !! Honestly, you'd be doing yourself a favor to do as you said you would earlier - leave the thread. You're only serving to make you, and by extension your alliance, bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delta1212 Posted June 12, 2009 Report Share Posted June 12, 2009 As someone leading an alliance that was extremely close to USN back in the days when neither of us had military treaties, I'm sorely disappointed, though not as surprised as I probrably could be. Best of luck to USN. And, hey, on the bright side, no more awkward moments when Altheus makes his sudden random appearances in private channels. I always found it funny, but it still set off the little voice in my head that complains about OPSEC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shamed Posted June 12, 2009 Report Share Posted June 12, 2009 As someone leading an alliance that was extremely close to USN back in the days when neither of us had military treaties, I'm sorely disappointed, though not as surprised as I probrably could be. Best of luck to USN. I'm also very disappointed as an ex USNer. Best of luck to you guys, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xiao Weng Posted June 12, 2009 Report Share Posted June 12, 2009 Surprise was possibly the last thing that occurred to me in a rather short list of thoughts ranging from laugh to pizza... It might not have made the list actually, and I rather support the move... Get off my lawn. I believe that's my line, there. Thief. I'm watching you. Oh yes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benjamin Arouet Posted June 12, 2009 Report Share Posted June 12, 2009 I believe that's my line, there. Thief. I'm watching you. Oh yes. Ah, we really do have the whole supporting cast around! If nothing else positive comes out of this thread, its nice to see a lot of old friends from USN throughout the ages. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xiao Weng Posted June 12, 2009 Report Share Posted June 12, 2009 Ah, we really do have the whole supporting cast around!If nothing else positive comes out of this thread, its nice to see a lot of old friends from USN throughout the ages. I have teams of intelligence agents feeding me pertinent landscaping data. When Allied_Threat starts talking about a lawn, I know about it. As to the content of this particular announcement...Meh. I took my leave of the USN some time ago as it was heading in a direction I did not agree with, and I see it continues to do so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shamed Posted June 12, 2009 Report Share Posted June 12, 2009 Ah, we really do have the whole supporting cast around!If nothing else positive comes out of this thread, its nice to see a lot of old friends from USN throughout the ages. It's a reunion here. Only missing a few people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D34th Posted June 12, 2009 Report Share Posted June 12, 2009 (edited) I understand there might be much us outsiders do not know but unfortunately you have brought this very private feud to the public arena and when you do such the public will begin to judge said alliances by what they can see. It is that fact that it seems some Maroon alliance members have not kept in mind while posting. You can tell us that there is much we dont know but when we go over this thread and see some of the belligerent behavior towards USN due to them making a sovereign decision then it still isn't going to look good no matter how much went on privately. People will judge by what they see.Just curious, do you have any responsibilities of government within your alliance? That is a very hefty threat to be tossing around publically. At this point the way things have gone I wouldnt blame USN for wanting to just pick up and leave Maroon. Now they are getting threats of coup. You used to belong to USN but left and now don't like what they are doing? Too bad, you shouldn't have left if you cared so much. It is one thing to look back and criticize those whom have taken over USN and now lead it but to say you are going to come back and take it over, that is a very aggressive statement and an attack on the sovereignty of USN. Yes, it IS an attack on USN. I would seriously hope your government gives you a stern talking to and comes forward with a very public apology over that. If not then I myself and I am sure many others will consider such accepted practice in that area of the world. This is turning into a trainwreck for all of you guys. You are making USN look like a victim here. Listen to this man, he talks the truth. Edited June 12, 2009 by D34th Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xiao Weng Posted June 12, 2009 Report Share Posted June 12, 2009 List this man, he talks the truth. Perhaps. Freelancer's memory is long, however, and the things that went on behind closed doors still have him worked up, as you can see. Perhaps all of us commenting negatively on the USN's actions have long memories, and the current events arise from the events that evoke them. I'm happy to have forgotten most of it for the time being. I'm sure, however, that someone will take it upon themselves to remind me and I'll have to deal with that again when the time comes. So it goes. I can only hope that those on the other side of the fence with those same memories keep their conversations civil. I don't want Freelancer to get too worked up - I don't have the time for that kind of damage control. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raphael Beau Pre Posted June 12, 2009 Report Share Posted June 12, 2009 I believe this is a fitting comment.If both are conflicting then both should be pulled. Or are CDT the more respected and valued allies? Based on the comments that USNs so called 'friends' and 'allies' in maroon are making, I think they've proven they've made the right choice here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delta1212 Posted June 12, 2009 Report Share Posted June 12, 2009 Most of the people who are heated are ex-USN gov. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nutkase Posted June 12, 2009 Report Share Posted June 12, 2009 (edited) No UCN member or govt member will post after this. If you have a issue with a UCN member, feel free to contact Borimir or myself. Let this thread die Edit: my grammar fail Edited June 12, 2009 by nutkase Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KaitlinK Posted June 12, 2009 Report Share Posted June 12, 2009 (edited) It comes to no surprise to me then that USN might choose those who are not telling them "It's them or us." I will state emphatically that this is not true! We are not dictating who an alliance can be friends with or allied to in the least. They were NOT being pressured to drop a bloc or an ally in favor of CA. Seems like you are rather jaded and fail to see their reasoning. Perhaps you should ask in private instead of making such a scene that makes you look so poorly. If commenting about the actions of an alliance makes someone look poorly then I am in some fantastic company! In all seriousness I am looking for reasoning without making a scene and doing so publically because privately was met with no response whatsoever. Like I said earlier I am not shy Rodrod has stated that CA and CDT are on opposite sides of the treaty web and because of it CA had to go. And while I find several flaws with that comment the point I have been trying to make (and obviously failing at) is that they are in the EXACT same place they were when they signed CA. I looked and can see no conflict with the CDT and CA and have yet to see anyone point out to me where this so called contention lies. USN I am not attempting to dictate your future nor your actions of present as much as I dislike them. I do not expect you to change your minds or feel that you are making a mistake. I am hoping that whether public or private you will at least realize that you have not been straightforward with a group that you have been allied to your entire existance and correct that. I also hope that your participation in SPAM will increase so that the ties that have been established over the years do not break. Please understand former members feel passionate about your alliance the same way an adult feels about their childhood home. We all worked hard to make it what it was, what you do with that is up to you, no one is telling you differently. But, try and respect that foundation your standing on... we built, and allow us crazy old people a chance to shake our canes and bore you with stories about "back in our day." Now to the rest of you who are reading this thread wondering what the ??? Maroon is a close community especially among its leaders. You are seeing a group of people that clawed their way to establishing unity on sphere that couldnt agree on the color of the sky. Seeing an action that reminds us of that past causes an annoying twitch which does not excuse some of the behavior demonstrated in this thread but should at least make it a bit understandable. Edited June 12, 2009 by KaitlinK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xiao Weng Posted June 12, 2009 Report Share Posted June 12, 2009 I will state emphatically that this is not true! We are not dictating who an alliance can be friends with or allied to in the least. They were NOT being pressured to drop a bloc or an ally in favor of CA.If commenting about the actions of an alliance makes someone look poorly then I am in some fantastic company! In all seriousness I am looking for reasoning without making a scene and doing so publically because privately was met with no response whatsoever. Like I said earlier I am not shy Rodrod has stated that CA and CDT are on opposite sides of the treaty web and because of it CA had to go. And while I find several flaws with that comment the point I have been trying to make (and obviously failing at) is that they are in the EXACT same place they were when they signed CA. I looked and can see no conflict with the CDT and CA and have yet to see anyone point out to me where this so called contention lies. USN I am not attempting to dictate your future nor your actions of present as much as I dislike them. I do not expect you to change your minds or feel that you are making a mistake. I am hoping that whether public or private you will at least realize that you have not been straightforward with a group that you have been allied to your entire existance and correct that. I also hope that your participation in SPAM will increase so that the ties that have been established over the years do not break. Please understand former members feel passionate about your alliance the same way an adult feels about their childhood home. We all worked hard to make it what it was, what you do with that is up to you, no one is telling you differently. But, try and respect that foundation your standing on... we built, and allow us crazy old people a chance to shake our canes and bore you with stories about "back in our day." Now to the rest of you who are reading this thread wondering what the ??? Maroon is a close community especially among its leaders. You are seeing a group of people that clawed their way to establishing unity on sphere that couldnt agree on the color of the sky. Seeing an action that reminds us of that past causes an annoying twitch which does not excuse some of the behavior demonstrated in this thread but should at least make it a bit understandable. Hello, Kait. It's been a while. I haven't been paying attention to the world as I should've - how have you been? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodrod Posted June 12, 2009 Report Share Posted June 12, 2009 Rodrod has stated that CA and CDT are on opposite sides of the treaty web and because of it CA had to go. And while I find several flaws with that comment the point I have been trying to make (and obviously failing at) is that they are in the EXACT same place they were when they signed CA.I looked and can see no conflict with the CDT and CA and have yet to see anyone point out to me where this so called contention lies. Well you're right that we are in the same place with one exception, we had a MDAP with CSN at that time that was held above all treaty's. Now that it's gone we had 2 bloc's that ARE conflicting. One had to go, as I've said a million times now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IrishX Posted June 12, 2009 Report Share Posted June 12, 2009 I wish you and prozach would have chimed in, then that thread would be complete *waves to xiao, free, canadian, shamed, kait...* This feels like a family reunion, but I'm sad to see that all we came together for is drama. I know very little about this, but I can tell you that as someone who feels lucky to reside in a united sphere, I am not happy with the direction this thread took. I'll just wish my former alliance, and our good allies on Maroon, good luck; I am confident that you all will be able to overcome your differences and that the Maroon sphere will continue to prosper. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fronz Posted June 12, 2009 Report Share Posted June 12, 2009 I think the real thing that bothered me about this whole thing was the communication, there were only rumors of them pulling out and we could not get a straight answer if they were pulling out up until they posted that they had voted to leave, and in 72 hours they would no longer be signatories. There were no discussions previous, no one came to us in advanced saying this was their plans, and from what it seemed all discussions with them ended in bitter sentiment, and unwillingness to go into discussion about it. I must say, i am very sadden, communication has always been a problem at the usn (as one of the founders, and a former government member i had to deal with it all the time). I think everyone's outrage comes from this failure of communication. To me it just seems like they were saying "We are leaving in 72 hours because of conflicting treaties, our decision is final, we will have no discussion. Bye" -- Something like that would piss a lot of bloc members off, and i think that's what we are seeing here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KaitlinK Posted June 12, 2009 Report Share Posted June 12, 2009 Hello, Kait. It's been a while. I haven't been paying attention to the world as I should've - how have you been? Xiao!!! Hows the lawn?? My goodness there are a lot of us in this thread! lol now that Irish is here all we are missing is Shamed, Fly, and Marine91! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mythology Posted June 12, 2009 Report Share Posted June 12, 2009 I think the real thing that bothered me about this whole thing was the communication, there were only rumors of them pulling out and we could not get a straight answer if they were pulling out up until they posted that they had voted to leave, and in 72 hours they would no longer be signatories. There were no discussions previous, no one came to us in advanced saying this was their plans, and from what it seemed all discussions with them ended in bitter sentiment, and unwillingness to go into discussion about it.I must say, i am very sadden, communication has always been a problem at the usn (as one of the founders, and a former government member i had to deal with it all the time). I think everyone's outrage comes from this failure of communication. To me it just seems like they were saying "We are leaving in 72 hours because of conflicting treaties, our decision is final, we will have no discussion. Bye" -- Something like that would piss a lot of bloc members off, and i think that's what we are seeing here. But isnt that every alliances right to make a decision on their own - Just turn the whole situation around on yourselves and take another look If it were your alliance in USN's shoes and you wanted to cancel a treaty and everyone was saying "but no you cant what about maroon" wouldn't you be upset and annoyed that another alliance was impeding on your sovereignty they have given a reason - If you don’t like that reason then that’s your prerogative - but it doesn’t mean that ex members have the right (this includes current maroon gov members who were ex members) to criticize their decision, remember that you left USN so you gave up your right to voice an opinion on how they run THEIR alliance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Svendonia Posted June 12, 2009 Report Share Posted June 12, 2009 Xiao!!! Hows the lawn??My goodness there are a lot of us in this thread! lol now that Irish is here all we are missing is Shamed, Fly, and Marine91! I'm quite certain Shamed posted, love, and Marine sadly doesn't have a nation (to my knowledge), but I agree, this is quite fun Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpacingOutMan Posted June 12, 2009 Report Share Posted June 12, 2009 I'm quite enjoying the ignorance displayed by parties not even involved in this situation. Yum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fronz Posted June 12, 2009 Report Share Posted June 12, 2009 But isnt that every alliances right to make a decision on their own - Just turn the whole situation around on yourselves and take another lookIf it were your alliance in USN's shoes and you wanted to cancel a treaty and everyone was saying "but no you cant what about maroon" wouldn't you be upset and annoyed that another alliance was impeding on your sovereignty they have given a reason - If you don't like that reason then that's your prerogative - but it doesn't mean that ex members have the right (this includes current maroon gov members who were ex members) to criticize their decision, remember that you left USN so you gave up your right to voice an opinion on how they run THEIR alliance. I think you missed the point of my post. It is their decision, they are sovereign, I left, yes i agree with you on those points that is why i said nothing about them. However I feel this whole angry thread could have been avoided if they had done a better job clearing up things in private with the other Chestnut Signatories. As far as I know, there were absolutely no attempts on their part to hold discussions or clear up the situation, sure that's their choice, but now they have an 12 page public thread, with the international community feeding off things former members and disgruntled signatories are saying. I must say it is sad to see it has come to this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainImpavid Posted June 12, 2009 Report Share Posted June 12, 2009 Now irregardless of what you think of USN's decision, doing so is just bad form, and show a complete lack of class from what is usually a very classy group of people. Disagreeing with them is fine, but this just shows the malice of which maybe, just maybe, USN didn't want a part of. Irregardless is not a word. Sorry, can't help it. It's been beaten into me. Best of luck to USN. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shamed Posted June 12, 2009 Report Share Posted June 12, 2009 I'm quite certain Shamed posted, love, and Marine sadly doesn't have a nation (to my knowledge), but I agree, this is quite fun Sig would be correct. Hi there, Kait. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KaitlinK Posted June 12, 2009 Report Share Posted June 12, 2009 Shamed!!! Sorry I missed you the first time... so is there anyone left that hasnt posted here that is still playing at this point? BTW well said Fronz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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