Joint Echelon, MCXA, NPO, NADC, and UBD Announcement

[twodivine]

Reachwind, you don't have a clue what you're talking about. Assington flat out lied to all of BLEU when asked about evidence of NADC spying, and he lied to his membership as well.

BLEU trusted Polaris when they told us that the war was justified. We didn't find out the truth until after the fact.

And every alliance came out of the closet with more reason why they didn't like NADC and outstanding issues that they had unresolved. Then supported it even more then trying to question it even happening or even boycotting getting involved in the war. So don't go saying it was just Polar on the war with NADC.

[x Tela x]

Says the puppet.

You're contributing nothing to this discussion.

[Reachwind]

Reachwind, you don't have a clue what you're talking about. Assington flat out lied to all of BLEU when asked about evidence of NADC spying, and he lied to his membership as well.

We ( as I was still in Echelon at the time) all talked about the war with NADC prior being involved. We talked about what it was really about. We knew what it was, we were all just fired up for a war and really didn't give a crap who it was as long as we got to do something.

You can pretend to be all high and mighty if you want to Tela, but I was there too and I know what was really discussed and no one cared about NADC's feelings in Echelon.

[Earogema]

Whilst we currently do not have any tangible evidence supporting their involvement in the spy operations, we now know it to be a fact. At this point I don't care if the rest of CN doesn't think we are justified, it's going to happen anyway.

Trusting him when he admits flat out that he has no evidence only shows negatively on your part as well. This is always a large fear of mine. Allies are to be trusted yes, but god dammit, don't be stupid. A judge would not trust his best friend to decide a court case for him. Show some sense. Don't complain that BLEU was betrayed if he flat out ADMITS he has no tangible evidence.

[Fallen Fool]

To simply overlook BLEU's transgressions in the NADC war and beyond is foolish, we decimated NADC and others for no good reason at all.

You make me chuckle.

Not once while you were in the bloc did you complain about our treatment collective treatment of NADC. Not once did you take the initiative to suggest lighter terms like AlmighyGrub did.

No instead you sat back and made jokes about NADC's incompetence just like the rest of us. You laughed as we hit them intiailly. You laughed as we drew up terms for them. You laughed when we hit them for terms violations.

Hell, you laughed straight up until the moment when Dilber came a-knocking with an offer to join One Vision. Then everything changed. A magic screen shot suddenly appeared which only you could see, and it told you that $@! was lying. Then suddenly Polar was evil. BLEU was a tool, a machination of Imperialist power. It became something "evil" which you just had to separate yourself from.

Such utter !@#$%^&* hypocrisy.

I think you missed a couple cliches. Have a mind of your own? Use it.

Random, whatever the intention initially was, both Sponge and Assington (With help from all of BLEU) twisted it to fit their own agenda. I won't defend Agora and call it a bastion of security and stability for the blue sphere. That's a little far fetched of an argument, even for me. BLEU had a lot of potential, and still does, if they stay on their current course, but for a long time BLEU was nothing more than a Polaris powerbase that was used to further Polaris' own agenda.

I believe you completely when you say that BLEU was created to bring stability and good will to the sphere - I was right there from the start. The bloc itself very quickly shifted from economics to military, though. All of the blame for that can't be laid solely on the lap of Polaris, but they were certainly the driving force in most military moves that BLEU made as a bloc, most of them aggressive in nature and many of them unjust.

Either you're full of !@#$%^&* or your blind. Or maybe both.

First, Polar called on BLEU once. Once during the NADC War. That's it. Every other time that BLEU was warring someone people either volunteered for the war (kind of like El Hefe and Solidus did during the FIST War) or someone else called on the bloc (kind of like OcUK did during the GUN War).

Second, no one was "in charge" during BLEU. It was a community of genuine friends (at least apparently except for you, Echelon and MCXA) who supported each other, shared gossip, and generally spent 90% of our time BSing about the mundane. The only time there was anything approaching a "leader" was during times of conflict, when whatever alliance which had a problem (ala Polar in the NADC War, OcUK in the GUN War, and Echelon in the CMEA debacle) would be in charge of organizing the overall military and diplomatic involvement of the bloc.

Each alliance had representatives to the bloc; but the old government of the NpO misused the trust we all had in them to lead the bloc to war against NADC.

Your hypocrisy makes me want to Edited June 7, 2009 by Fallen_Fool

[x Tela x]

And every alliance came out of the closet with more reason why they didn't like NADC and outstanding issues that they had unresolved. Then supported it even more then trying to question it even happening or even boycotting getting involved in the war. So don't go saying it was just Polar on the war with NADC.

What? Yes, we supported our allies, who we presumed had a valid cause for war. Shame on us for putting trust into allies, right?

Oh, and it was questioned, but your answer was vague like, "We'll show you the proof when we have it all together." or something silly. That was good enough for me, at the time. I wasn't fully aware of the duplicity of the Polar mindset at that time.

[Barix9]

You're contributing nothing to this discussion.

And you are? aside from the continued useless sidways coments that you've been spouting for some time now what have you "contributed". I have yet to see you say anything in any thread on OWF that has any relevance, or reason except to cause drama.

Edit: Finnished a thought.

Edited June 7, 2009 by Barix9

[x Tela x]

We ( as I was still in Echelon at the time) all talked about the war with NADC prior being involved. We talked about what it was really about. We knew what it was, we were all just fired up for a war and really didn't give a crap who it was as long as we got to do something.

You can pretend to be all high and mighty if you want to Tela, but I was there too and I know what was really discussed and no one cared about NADC's feelings in Echelon.

Yes, we were excited about going to war. War is fun. Also, we didn't learn the truth until well after the war was over. You're right, nobody cared about NADC's feelings. At least until after we knew for sure what some had already suspected, regarding the complete and total lack of evidence. And Fallen, it was also well before we went to 1V.

Trusting him when he admits flat out that he has no evidence only shows negatively on your part as well. This is always a large fear of mine. Allies are to be trusted yes, but god dammit, don't be stupid. A judge would not trust his best friend to decide a court case for him. Show some sense. Don't complain that BLEU was betrayed if he flat out ADMITS he has no tangible evidence.

I trusted him because he was my ally. I didn't see this post from Assington during the war. It was not addressed to BLEU, or to myself. I saw the post long after the war was over.

[twodivine]

What? Yes, we supported our allies, who we presumed had a valid cause for war. Shame on us for putting trust into allies, right?

Oh, and it was questioned, but your answer was vague like, "We'll show you the proof when we have it all together." or something silly. That was good enough for me, at the time. I wasn't fully aware of the duplicity of the Polar mindset at that time.

Tela that wasn't even the only issue on the table. MCXA had issues with reps not getting paid. Others came up with other issues. Not once did anyone say no lets not do this. Echelon was hungry for war and was always looking to get included. Or were you to blinded with the sex chats in irc to realize that your own alliance was war hungry and didn't care what the fight was as long as they were included.

[Fallen Fool]

What? Yes, we supported our allies, who we presumed had a valid cause for war. Shame on us for putting trust into allies, right?

Oh, and it was questioned, but your answer was vague like, "We'll show you the proof when we have it all together." or something silly. That was good enough for me, at the time.

Right

You mean like when Bismarck came out and admitted to organizing a ring of ingame spies. I seem to recall you saying repeatedly that it was all the proof Polar needed.

I wasn't fully aware of the duplicity of the Polar mindset at that time.

Oh God the irony.

So either Echelon fell for some fake screen shot about "zomg ebil Polariz killin' pooooor NADC" and remained duplicitous for months on end about their true feelings regarding BLEU or Echelon believed the truth up until it was inconvenient, at which point they revealed their duplicitous nature by betraying BLEU for One Vision.

Which is it Tela?

Yes, we were excited about going to war. War is fun. Also, we didn't learn the truth until well after the war was over. You're right, nobody cared about NADC's feelings. At least until after we knew for sure what some had already suspected, regarding the complete and total lack of evidence. And Fallen, it was also well before we went to 1V.

So you fell for a !@#$%^&* screen shot and remained duplicitous for months on end?

I trusted him because he was my ally. I didn't see this post from Assington during the war. It was not addressed to BLEU, or to myself. I saw the post long after the war was over.

What's funny is I was in Polaris gov forums at the time, and since then, and not once have I seen anything remotely akin to what you're describing. Edited June 7, 2009 by Fallen_Fool

[x Tela x]

Tela that wasn't even the only issue on the table. MCXA had issues with reps not getting paid. Others came up with other issues. Not once did anyone say no lets not do this. Echelon was hungry for war and was always looking to get included. Or were you to blinded with the sex chats in irc to realize that your own alliance was war hungry and didn't care what the fight was as long as they were included.

What does deriving enjoyment from war have to do with a trumped up CB? Of course we wanted to go to war, and nope, we didn't really care who it was against. We did sort of expect a valid cause, or at least a flimsy one, though. Not something completely fabricated. War is fine and dandy as long as it has a basis in fact. Otherwise, it's just unjust aggression.

[twodivine]

What does deriving enjoyment from war have to do with a trumped up CB? Of course we wanted to go to war, and nope, we didn't really care who it was against. We did sort of expect a valid cause, or at least a flimsy one, though. Not something completely fabricated. War is fine and dandy as long as it has a basis in fact. Otherwise, it's just unjust aggression.

Yeah we had the proof that Bismark and created a spy network and was doing harm to Polar. If there should of been more of a proof then you rolled with what was given so don't go ops we didn't have any part in it, when you did just as much work on NADC, and when it came to terms Polar suggested lighter terms any other alliance in BLEU.

Now that this thread has gone completely off topic of Agora dying. I'll leave this thread and suggest people get back on its topic of the greatest end to a bloc.

[AlmightyGrub]

Reachwind, you don't have a clue what you're talking about. Assington flat out lied to all of BLEU when asked about evidence of NADC spying, and he lied to his membership as well.

BLEU trusted Polaris when they told us that the war was justified. We didn't find out the truth until after the fact.

You know I still believe that war was entirely justified right? The fact that lapdogs like [insert ''NPO promised me this to betray my friends'' alliance here] chose to rewrite history to suit the Polaris is evil agenda at the time, the evidence used to support the CB was still entirely accurate. The fact you want to believe whatever it is you want to believe is your choice. The NADC is what it is, and given the same evidence Assington relied on last time again, I would roll tanks in the same way. The facts that a government member of NADC, regardless of his personal intentions, screwed with Polaris, have never been in dispute.

Wake up to yourself, seriously, wake up. Logs from BLEU forums would show quite an opposite position to the one you love sprouting these days. You left BLEU because you were offered an out of what we all knew was coming, like the cowards you are you ran with the big dogs until they could run no more. Embrace the cowardice, embrace the betrayal and embrace the fact that you are persona non grata to most of blue and indeed BLEU.

And while you are on a roll, consider this notice that Polaris has taken quite enough crap from you over actions you both supported and gleefully participated in. You make me sick.

[Reachwind]

Tela that wasn't even the only issue on the table. MCXA had issues with reps not getting paid. Others came up with other issues. Not once did anyone say no lets not do this. Echelon was hungry for war and was always looking to get included. Or were you to blinded with the sex chats in irc to realize that your own alliance was war hungry and didn't care what the fight was as long as they were included.

This is 100% correct. Echelon did not care about CBs. Hell, we were busy trying to fabricate one to kill NTO at the same time... I believe you were in on those discussions yourself Myworld.

[Prince Yvl]

Congrats on signing this epic tre- oh, it's disbanding? Wow, never even knew you guys were there. Must have been one hell of a treaty with credible alliances like NPO and Echelo - no you say? Oh dear.

[Nintenderek]

I stick by my original opinion of this treaty that I stated when it was announced. Just an attempt (now failed attempt) at NPO trying to gain some power on the blue team. Never was an important treaty. Not an important cancellation.

What does deriving enjoyment from war have to do with a trumped up CB? Of course we wanted to go to war, and nope, we didn't really care who it was against.

This here completely blows every argument you've made again NpO in the last year or so, completely out of the water and makes you look like a total fool. I just wanted you to know that.

Edited June 7, 2009 by Nintenderek

[twodivine]

This is 100% correct. Echelon did not care about CBs. Hell, we were busy trying to fabricate one to kill NTO at the same time... I believe you were in on those discussions yourself Myworld.

Yes I was, and there was a few other queries I got pulled into to keep Echelon from coming up with some more weak reason to go to war because of hot head Tela's looking for war, when diplomacy was the proper option to resolve it.

[x Tela x]

This here completely blows every argument you've made again NpO in the last year or so, completely out of the water and makes you look like a total fool. I just wanted you to know that.

Try quoting the whole thing, genius.

What does deriving enjoyment from war have to do with a trumped up CB? Of course we wanted to go to war, and nope, we didn't really care who it was against. We did sort of expect a valid cause, or at least a flimsy one, though. Not something completely fabricated. War is fine and dandy as long as it has a basis in fact. Otherwise, it's just unjust aggression.

[fupresti]

Try quoting the whole thing, genius.

Why don't you discredit the comments of Fallen Fool and AlmightyGrub since you seems so noble now in retrospect. Oh wait, you will instead pick on the lesser arguments and avoid having to spin actual facts.

Maybe you should just return to a quiet retirement, eh Tela?

[Doc Taco]

This treaty never sat right with me. I am happy that it will sit no longer.

[Archon]

I think I must be in the minority, as I'm getting a bigger kick out of all these folks who suddenly speak with a boldness that was nowhere to be found but months earlier. To hell with the bloc - the reactions are where its at.

[Master Hakai]

I think I must be in the minority, as I'm getting a bigger kick out of all these folks who suddenly speak with a boldness that was nowhere to be found but months earlier. To hell with the bloc - the reactions are where its at.

I agree with this statement and look forward to the next powerful bloc everyone is afraid to speak out against until it is gone.

[King Death II]

about time this was announced. i was wondering why this one kept living even though the other NPO blocks fell.

[Penguin]

I think I must be in the minority, as I'm getting a bigger kick out of all these folks who suddenly speak with a boldness that was nowhere to be found but months earlier. To hell with the bloc - the reactions are where its at.

On the contrary, I think you'll find pretty much every Agora announcement since day one has been met with the same boldness as the one today. We can debate why Agora failed all night, but I'll be the first to admit that at no point in the bloc's history did we give them an easy sell. I can think of a lot of blocs where those comments might apply, but Agora is definitely not one of them.

Edited June 7, 2009 by Penguin

[Biohazard]

No shocker there. Onward to a better Blue!