Tired of the cult of personality

[njndirish]

Look, I will give credit where credit is due. NPO's retention has amazed me during this war. What that shows me though is what a complete culture NPO has on its own. It's for the most part disconnected from the rest of the world. Look in any thread of yours that would point towards the OWF and you will find post after post of NPO members saying how the OWF isnt worth wasting time on. It's quite possible that has an effect on a large amount of your nations that they believe they should not look outwards and get to know others. When part of a culture that large, you already have plenty of people to get to know.

Back in September 2008 (if not earlier), there was the stigma that there were massive personality conflicts between Pacifians and certain members of the OWF, which in turn could lead to risen warn levels and bans. In order to prevent the ban of their members, I believe the NPO put the limited posting on OWF into effect. This is of course second or third hand information, but make of it what you would like.

And also all those saying, NPO grunts are blind, stupid, dumb, brainwashed, etc. etc. please take into account that they too can read the OWF and chat in IRC just like the rest of Planet Bob and thus draw their own conclusions.

Edited May 8, 2009 by njndirish

[Great Lord Moth]

If you are a member of an alliance you have duties and rights. He enjoyed his rights, but he didn't fulfilled his duty to defend his mates in the alliance.

Three straight weeks of fighting a doomed war isn't fulfilling one's duty? Perma-ZI lives on in the form of unending duty! Die for your honor!

[Doitzel]

Three straight weeks of fighting a doomed war isn't fulfilling one's duty? Perma-ZI lives on in the form of unending duty! Die for your honor!

Speaking of perma-ZI, I've heard that NPO is threatening it to nations who "run away" during war, which might account somewhat for their retention thus far. That and the fact that they've gained dozens of tiny nations.

[enderland]

Unfortunately, it pays off.

I'm not sure why anyone would want him to fly their colors.

[SynthFG]

There's no shame in surrendering after 3 weeks of loosing warfare,

The fact that he was kicked from NPO's forums after getting sweary when aid was not forthcomming may have influenced his decision, and also suggests that all is not well with pacifican banks,

But offering to join the other side, suggests a disloyal petulant personality, throwing the toys out of the pram when he doesn't get his own way

[HellAngel]

Hmmm interesting,

Had FnKa asking MHA (and fark) to peace out a similar case.

Do they have a special "thing" for deserters?

Oh CT didnt leave NPO during the war, he was intelligent enough to do it 1 day before it started. Just like he left Gremlins when he thought !@#$ was about to hit the fan.

I cant withstand the temptation:

Edited May 8, 2009 by HellAngel

[Duncan King]

I'm not sure why anyone would want him to fly their colors.

I remember Christian Trojans hopping from GPA to NATO during the tC-GPA war and then leaving us for a bigger alliance (Rok maybe?) before another war. I'll admit, I was shocked to see him in top 10, but I guess that's what standing for nothing will do for you.

At the OP, I can understand why you left. Getting hit while your leaders hide in peace mode has to be demoralizing. But asking for money so you can switch sides is bad form.

[SoxNation]

Oh CT didnt leave NPO during the war, he was intelligent enough to do it 1 day before it started. Just like he left Gremlins when he thought !@#$ was about to hit the fan.

I cant withstand the temptation:

hahaha I remember that.

Ram where was your "Who are you again?"

[Drostan]

It is impossible to judge this man justly with the information that we have.

If indeed NPO remained non-communicative throughout and then revoked his forum access then I can understand him being mad. It's like being slapped in the face after fighting for 3 weeks for someone. The thing is that people here have a mentality where once you've made a decision you can never change your mind no matter what new information comes to light. If you joined an alliance as a newbie and then they declare a crazy offensive war against someone in very suspicious circumstances you are not supposed to reassess your original choice. You are supposed to fight for them even if you think they are wrong... The funny thing is that that mentality is exactly what creates juggernauts like the NPO. I am not saying word should mean nothing or that switching sides is not poor form. But at the same time I find people here take a very simplistic and dogmatic approach to alliance politics. Any alliance that censors members from reading/posting on the OWF is an alliance worthy of suspicion in my opinion. Truly, a rogue member posting dumb stuff on the OWF can be embarassing but at least that member can be shown why s/he is wrong. That member has the hope of one day pushing back the imposing ignorance that obscures the world from him whereas the one who hides eternally in the darkness of a private forum is sure to remain ignorant.

But it is true that we all have a choice. I would not be a part of an alliance that told me I could not interact with the rest of the community and frankly I don't see why anyone would be. In an ideal world people would spend more time making their decisions but if we never give people the chance to change their minds they can never learn that lesson and only a minority of them will ever find a comfortable home here on Planet Bob. People change and so do they alliances they belong to. War tends to embolden these changes and so it is not surprising that peacetime tensions reach a fever pitch during war.

[Haflinger]

Three straight weeks of fighting a doomed war isn't fulfilling one's duty? Perma-ZI lives on in the form of unending duty! Die for your honor!

Anyone not willing to die for their honor probably doesn't have much.

[Drostan]

Anyone not willing to die for their honor probably doesn't have much.

You are aware that this is an OOC forum right? Also it's the 21st century... and the only way to 'die' in CN is to be banned and even that doesn't always stick.

[Cobalt]

Anyone not willing to die for their honor probably doesn't have much.

I'm ready to nominate "Dulce et decorum est pro patria mori" as the unofficial motto of CN, because apparently everyone believes it in so passionately.

[Vhalen]

Seriously, where are you getting this stuff from? GW2 was in the beginning of January (January being the month before February) and GW3 was in the end of March.

Though I do appreciate the delicious irony of you bringing up my leaving an alliance that would joke about its "Chairman Curse" (where every single leader in 2006 ended up leaving) in a thread about how "mean" the NPO allegedly is to its members. The NPO is so mean that people are leaving in droves! Why, it's gone from 928 nations at the start of this war to a mere....927!

I note that since the war began, they've picked up well over 100 new members, mostly new (2-3 week old) nations in a smattering of various colors, and largely under 1k NS. Seems like they'd be well over 928 nations if the "they haven't really had any deserters" thing were true. Could it be a plan to avoid the appearance of losses? (Edit: And yes, I understand that a few of these nations are rejoins and such, but the vast majority are not.)

Edited May 8, 2009 by Vhalen

[Delta1212]

Speaking of perma-ZI, I've heard that NPO is threatening it to nations who "run away" during war, which might account somewhat for their retention thus far. That and the fact that they've gained dozens of tiny nations.

They've gained 148 nations since the war began. 13 of them have more than 1k NS. Despite this, they still have a net loss.

Edited May 8, 2009 by Delta1212

[Khyber]

Surrender is not a big deal to me. I surrendered after a month in ZI in VietFAN 1. I had my problems with the alliance structure as I had lost all my infra (5k at the time which wasnt bad), and still didn't have the right to vote. Prewar I was cautioning against the aggressive NPO stance many where taking on the forums, and had a problem with our aggressiveness. I was thinking of leaving but when war started I felt I owed FAN for their protection, and for the friends I had there, and when I had nothing left to give but a +1 on the membership, I left.

3 weeks is no small time to fight either. And his easonings are sound. Asking for aid though is silly when everyone is curb stomping you.

But the offer to be let go from surrender terms so he can fight his old alliance is indeed low, and it is with that that I find it appauling.

[Gruthenia]

They've gained 148 nations since the war began. 13 of them have more than 1k NS. Despite this, they still have a net loss.

I wonder where they're all getting them from.

And no I don't mean that in a tinfoil hat sense I honestly wonder. Ghosts seem likely but that can't possibly account for all of them.

[Delta1212]

I wonder where they're all getting them from.

And no I don't mean that in a tinfoil hat sense I honestly wonder. Ghosts seem likely but that can't possibly account for all of them.

NPO Applicant has taken a sharp drop recently if you look at its NS chart. I'd imagine that's contributed some. They're still sending out recruitment messages (or people haven't gotten the memo to stop, since I know a few rerolls that have gotten hit with them recently). It's doable for an alliance that is still statistically number one, especially if they don't bother bringing up politics to any of them.

[Great Lord Moth]

Anyone not willing to die for their honor probably doesn't have much.

Asking for aid to fight for the enemy notwithstanding, he would've at least had grace.

On the topic of honor, one MUST ask "From where is this honor bestowed?" What is the value of honor, when it commands you to go against your beliefs and values, and to go down a path of hypocrisy unto oneself?

[Delta1212]

Seriously, where are you getting this stuff from? GW2 was in the beginning of January (January being the month before February) and GW3 was in the end of March.

Though I do appreciate the delicious irony of you bringing up my leaving an alliance that would joke about its "Chairman Curse" (where every single leader in 2006 ended up leaving) in a thread about how "mean" the NPO allegedly is to its members. The NPO is so mean that people are leaving in droves! Why, it's gone from 928 nations at the start of this war to a mere....927!

I am interested in meeting this one nation that held the 4 of your WRCs that seem to have disappeared mysteriously in the last 24 hours

[WildeKaard]

I see nothing wrong with the last line.

Because it's childish and narcissistic. It also screams of convenience. Admin help us if protocol is removed from this game altogether. Vox has already trampled upon and molested any vestiges of privacy that Alliances could hope to possess in this game so you would wish to remove yet another element? I require Asprin...

This is BS. If his alliance his getting curb stomped, then he has every right to surrender. He's been fighting for three weeks, and hasn't gained anything from it. If his alliance wanted him that badly, they wouldn't have deserted him with their actions over the last 2 years or so.

Don't you or didn't you have a 'Free FAN' signature at some point?

[Sal Paradise]

Moo-cows and the IOs' cult of personality?

I lol'd in real life.

[Bjornoya]

Wait, so this sap is a miserable traitor for putting the needs of his nation over those of his alliance? Aren't the leadership doing the exact same thing, putting the needs of their nation over those of the alliance by staying in peace mode? He just followed example.

[Canehda]

So he dosent want to die for people who aren't willing to die for him. Some nations become more active in war and will only now see what NPO really is and have every right to leave.

I see nothing wrong with the last line.

This is BS. If his alliance his getting curb stomped, then he has every right to surrender. He's been fighting for three weeks, and hasn't gained anything from it. If his alliance wanted him that badly, they wouldn't have deserted him with their actions over the last 2 years or so.

I don't think people are reacting to his surrender. It's that last line which says he'll attack his former alliance that riles people up.

I think alot of you forget this is a NATION game that means any ruler should act in whats the best interest of his nation.

For the rest of you that scold him congrats for being the little soldier MOO would be proud.

It is impossible to judge this man justly with the information that we have.

If indeed NPO remained non-communicative throughout and then revoked his forum access then I can understand him being mad. It's like being slapped in the face after fighting for 3 weeks for someone. The thing is that people here have a mentality where once you've made a decision you can never change your mind no matter what new information comes to light. If you joined an alliance as a newbie and then they declare a crazy offensive war against someone in very suspicious circumstances you are not supposed to reassess your original choice. You are supposed to fight for them even if you think they are wrong... The funny thing is that that mentality is exactly what creates juggernauts like the NPO. I am not saying word should mean nothing or that switching sides is not poor form. But at the same time I find people here take a very simplistic and dogmatic approach to alliance politics. Any alliance that censors members from reading/posting on the OWF is an alliance worthy of suspicion in my opinion. Truly, a rogue member posting dumb stuff on the OWF can be embarassing but at least that member can be shown why s/he is wrong. That member has the hope of one day pushing back the imposing ignorance that obscures the world from him whereas the one who hides eternally in the darkness of a private forum is sure to remain ignorant.

But it is true that we all have a choice. I would not be a part of an alliance that told me I could not interact with the rest of the community and frankly I don't see why anyone would be. In an ideal world people would spend more time making their decisions but if we never give people the chance to change their minds they can never learn that lesson and only a minority of them will ever find a comfortable home here on Planet Bob. People change and so do they alliances they belong to. War tends to embolden these changes and so it is not surprising that peacetime tensions reach a fever pitch during war.

Wait, so this sap is a miserable traitor for putting the needs of his nation over those of his alliance? Aren't the leadership doing the exact same thing, putting the needs of their nation over those of the alliance by staying in peace mode? He just followed example.

They may not all be the majority...

But I must concur.

His Alliances faults finally removed the blindfold over his eyes they'd kept over him for so long....

Furthermore Personally, as it may be a little wrong to attack your former alliances, 2 wrongs also might not make a right, but I'm all for him getting the revenge he deserves, mind you Karma doesn't really need the help, but more is greatly appreciated.

After all, If my alliances was at war for over 3 weeks, and all my leaders hid in peace mode, I would switch sides as well, it's not necessarily a matter of winning or loosing, its the matter of fighting together as one.... (My leaders are too awesome to not fight with tho )

He'll I think it would be funny as hell if one of the individual surrender terms was to join' Karma's side and fight against your old alliance... But thats just my opioin.

Down with NPO!

[Inquisitor Tolkien]

The shadow government of Karma POW is pleased by your decision. We hope you stay for a long time, and join us in our quest for the sanction.

[LJ Scott]

I am interested in meeting this one nation that held the 4 of your WRCs that seem to have disappeared mysteriously in the last 24 hours

Stats of NPO WRC nations deleted in the past 24 hours (note these are the stats at time of deletion):

Nation/Link	Nation Strength	Infra	Tech	Military Wonders Held	# of wars
Koona of Koona	58K	8509.99	3,576.49	FAFB MP PENTAGON SDI WRC	Peacmode
Syaoran of Amestris	38K	7,207.87	2,891.90	PENTAGON SDI WRC	2
simplexio of Leiskaland	24K	5,225.09	1,515.87	AADN FAFB PENTAGON SDI WRC	2
Azure of Aldarin	76K	14,220.00	3,018.83	AADN FAFB HNMS MP PENTAGON SDI WRC	Peacemode

Interesting things with these 4 deletions are that two were in peace mode, Koona was NPO's oldest ingame AA nation and (former?) Imperial Officer, Koona/simplexio/Azure were amongst the oldest nations in the game.

Now these are just the 4 WRC nations deleted in the past 24 hours. Whilst NPO is having an influx of small nations (who, from PM's sent to them being posted, are being conned onto the AA), they're losing quite alot of large nations. There have been nations equal to these ones size, and larger, who didn't have WRC's that have been deleted.

Now you know