Sovyet Gelibolu Posted May 4, 2009 Report Share Posted May 4, 2009 IRON before this current ordeal. But not to worry, you guys will find someone else in no time. I'm not ODN. Good try though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diomede Posted May 4, 2009 Report Share Posted May 4, 2009 I'm not ODN. Good try though. It seems you have the same problem as I. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zessa Posted May 4, 2009 Report Share Posted May 4, 2009 I find the recurring comments about ODN being a parasite rather odd. On whom could they possibly be sucking? R&R, INT, and Vanguard are all rather smaller than ODN and are in no position to drag ODN's zaftig bulk on their fashionably short coat-tails. Likening ODN to a parasite on any one of us would be likening a human to a parasite on a tapeworm. It just don't add up.Though you flatter us with the suggestion, I'm afraid it's just too ridiculous to stand. Carry on. Shh, logic scares the trolls and we just had the net ready... Also, Gelibolu. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pingu Posted May 4, 2009 Report Share Posted May 4, 2009 It seems you have the same problem as I. The problem seems to be that some people can't imagine that some other people do not share their negative perception of the ODN, unless those other people are themselves members of the ODN. That some of those other people are former members of ODN is simply a further complication and downright insensitive to the needs of the first group of people not to be confused. In other words, it's all your fault, Dip. Also, what Cata said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sovyet Gelibolu Posted May 4, 2009 Report Share Posted May 4, 2009 (edited) Shh, logic scares the trolls and we just had the net ready...Also, Gelibolu. Clearly you have not caught on to my Xanatos Gambit whereby your nets are merely decoys to drive them into my pit traps B) EDIT: clarity's a !@#$%*. Edited May 4, 2009 by Sovyet Gelibolu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zessa Posted May 4, 2009 Report Share Posted May 4, 2009 Clearly you have not caught on to my Xanatos Gambit whereby your nets are merely decoys to drive them into my pit traps B)EDIT: clarity's a !@#$%*. Ingenious. I thought it said "pie traps" for a minute. Now that would be a horrible fate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sovyet Gelibolu Posted May 4, 2009 Report Share Posted May 4, 2009 (edited) Ingenious. I thought it said "pie traps" for a minute. Now that would be a horrible fate. Being trapped in, or anywhere near, pie for any length of time, or even having to contemplate the prospect, is a fate worse than death which no-one deserves. Ah, that's better. Edited May 4, 2009 by Sovyet Gelibolu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChairmanHal Posted May 4, 2009 Report Share Posted May 4, 2009 Regardless of what is said. ODN has always done what they felt was right for themselves and membership. Popularity isn't a requirement of CN as sometimes its a benefit most its irrelevant . Ask NPO if popularity matters about right now... I don't think that anyone necessarily faults ODN for withdrawing from GW III if they are being honest. It was how they did that was the problem. Also, ODN's reputation as an alliance that becomes squeamish and seeks out treaty conflict to opt out of combat whenever possible didn't happen because of ugly rumors. That behavior started post-GW III and has been noted by any of people who track the interalliance political scene, along with comments like, "nice alliance, great bunch a people but...". Is it a fair analysis? Maybe you don't think ODN should care, but they better, particularly in a post-war world where the treaty web has a lot more gaps in it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
merlin Posted May 5, 2009 Report Share Posted May 5, 2009 (edited) Also, ODN's reputation as an alliance that becomes squeamish and seeks out treaty conflict to opt out of combat whenever possible didn't happen because of ugly rumors. That behavior started post-GW III and has been noted by any of people who track the interalliance political scene, along with comments like, "nice alliance, great bunch a people but...". This is highly inaccurate. GWIV? Fought the guys who demanded we expel our founder. CSN "war"? We fought someone; I wasn't very active at the time so I don't recall. NoCB war? We fought vox. Hey- they were bigger then. Did we miss some fights? Sure: we didn't fight in the GPA and NADC "wars". I guess that makes us giant pansies. Probably a couple of others that we could have gotten in on through some oA clause or another. I don't think we missed much. Therefore, "ugly rumors" is not the right term. Perhaps "outright falsehoods" would be correct when talking about this fabricated concept that we run from conflict. What you really seem to be trying to say is that the ODN wins too often. Or maybe what you are trying to say is that the ODN is too frequently on the winning side despite treaty conflicts. Now, I would like you to honestly tell me how many alliances- regardless of whether they are on the winning or the losing side- don't end up canceling or essentially ignoring treaties at least once or twice. Virtually every major alliance has to make a judgment call in every war. They have to decide who they will support and who they will not support. It is in that frame of reference that one could reasonably find fault with the ODN; one could claim that we chose to support the wrong friends in a given war. Judging the ODN by the same metric as any other alliance I find fault only in our failure to back polaris during the NoCB war. Edited May 5, 2009 by merlin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlmightyGrub Posted May 5, 2009 Report Share Posted May 5, 2009 This is highly inaccurate. GWIV? Fought the guys who demanded we expel our founder. CSN "war"? We fought someone; I wasn't very active at the time so I don't recall. NoCB war? We fought vox. Hey- they were bigger then. Did we miss some fights? Sure: we didn't fight in the GPA and NADC "wars". I guess that makes us giant pansies. Probably a couple of others that we could have gotten in on through some oA clause or another. I don't think we missed much. Therefore, "ugly rumors" is not the right term. Perhaps "outright falsehoods" would be correct when talking about this fabricated concept that we run from conflict. What you really seem to be trying to say is that the ODN wins too often. Or maybe what you are trying to say is that the ODN is too frequently on the winning side despite treaty conflicts. Now, I would like you to honestly tell me how many alliances- regardless of whether they are on the winning or the losing side- don't end up canceling or essentially ignoring treaties at least once or twice. Virtually every major alliance has to make a judgment call in every war. They have to decide who they will support and who they will not support. It is in that frame of reference that one could reasonably find fault with the ODN; one could claim that we chose to support the wrong friends in a given war. Judging the ODN by the same metric as any other alliance I find fault only in our failure to back polaris during the NoCB war. You really should just let this whole thing sink to the bottom now, I (and Random et al) made my feelings known pages ago, I doubt anyone else's feeling re " Polaris '' really matter anymore... You failed us, you have apologized several times, and to be honest nothing can fix it until the right chance comes along. Just be careful not to get too emboldened in or by the current war, there are still a lot of ways this mess can backfire on you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cataduanes Posted May 5, 2009 Report Share Posted May 5, 2009 (edited) Is it a fair analysis? Maybe you don't think ODN should care, but they better, particularly in a post-war world where the treaty web has a lot more gaps in it. Curiously enough your spot on in some ways, i also agree that we can no longer afford to put a foot wrong and that is what we will be trying to do . The past is something we can never forget and i like to think that in the last few months the lessons of the past have been put into practice, i just hope we have the chance to prove our collective worth and overcome the consequences of past errors. Just be careful not to get too emboldened in or by the current war, there are still a lot of ways this mess can backfire on you. heh not much chance of that, we know we have a long way to go yet and that we have many who would dearly like to see us f##k it up and take us down because of it. Furthermore we will be sure to carefully evaluate all 'options' we may be planning to take...however your warning is much appreciated. Edited May 5, 2009 by Cataduanes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Franklin Posted May 5, 2009 Report Share Posted May 5, 2009 Just be careful not to get too emboldened in or by the current war, there are still a lot of ways this mess can backfire on you. There are lots of ways it could backfire for anyone and any alliance still. I mean heck, your alliance offered to go the neutral path in this conflict, while I respect the NpO's decision on the matter, seems odd that some people in this thread claim how the ODN tries to squirm its way out of war and are not reliable allies. Truly it is a falsehood. When we are allied with someone, and have a treaty with a particular alliance we expect them not to screw around with us, otherwise problems arise. I imagine this is the reason behind many alliance's cancellations or cautiousness in entering a war. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
merlin Posted May 5, 2009 Report Share Posted May 5, 2009 Wise words AlmightyGrub. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ak47don Posted May 5, 2009 Report Share Posted May 5, 2009 (edited) Oh man, this is great. Suddenly, people start to have an open and genuinely beneficial conversation, even one of our greatest trolls and detractors stops for a minute to say how he actually feels in a polite and respectful way as a variety of past government officials and enemies speak their mind and then you come in to quote some guy a few pages back, throw out a funny little insult and call it a day. This thread went from somewhat bizarre, to "lol lets troll ODN by C/P what somebody smarter then me said!" very quickly.Oh well, should I expect more from the OWF? It was nice well it lasted. It's a shame i didn't view this topic a lot earlier otherwise i would have posted a lot earlier. I'm also glad you found the truth about the Optional Defense Network to be funny! Edited May 5, 2009 by ak47don Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shahenshah Posted May 5, 2009 Report Share Posted May 5, 2009 (edited) Here we go again :/, Edit: Also hai ODN. /waves Edited May 5, 2009 by shahenshah Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Electron Sponge Posted May 5, 2009 Report Share Posted May 5, 2009 Here we go again :/ I feel your pain. Truly I do. lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cataduanes Posted May 5, 2009 Report Share Posted May 5, 2009 It's a shame i didn't view this topic a lot earlier otherwise i would have posted a lot earlier. I'm also glad you found the truth about the Optional Defense Network to be funny! Hi i am Cata, how are you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soccerbum Posted May 5, 2009 Report Share Posted May 5, 2009 (edited) It's a shame i didn't view this topic a lot earlier otherwise i would have posted a lot earlier. I'm also glad you found the truth about the Optional Defense Network to be funny! It's slightly pathetic that that's all you have to contribute to the conversation. And it's not like some of your leaders weren't calling ODN that for months now anyways. In summation: Ow. You hurt their feelings. It would benefit you if you gave some reasoned analysis, such as Coursca, an ex-Council member did, or BnT from Valhalla. At least there is something to argue, then. MY MISTAKE. You quoted someone else and then agreed with it, and then proceeded to call ODN the Optional Defense Network. And when someone else responded, you just said 'no problem.' My life now has meaning! You have sufficiently contributed to this thread! Edited May 5, 2009 by soccerbum879 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cataduanes Posted May 6, 2009 Report Share Posted May 6, 2009 heh reasoned debate is far beyond the capabilities of people like ak47don :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ak47don Posted May 6, 2009 Report Share Posted May 6, 2009 (edited) Come in here straight to the point about ODN. true say i cant be a$$ed writing a couple paragraph about them. Edited May 6, 2009 by ak47don Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mogar Posted May 6, 2009 Report Share Posted May 6, 2009 Come in here straight to the point about ODN. true say i cant be a$$ed writing a couple paragraph about them. come on now, taunting them with a paragraph is far more entertaining. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cataduanes Posted May 6, 2009 Report Share Posted May 6, 2009 (edited) Come in here straight to the point about ODN. true say i cant be a$$ed writing a couple paragraph about them. But you have not actually made a point, you have just thrown out insults...funny thing is if you constructed criticism in a concise manner using the brain in your head you would find many who would agree seeing as we are not the most loved community on Planet Bob. But if ridicule is what your after you will get it in large amounts EDIT: Listen to Mogar, he knows how to do it right Edited May 6, 2009 by Cataduanes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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