Mjolnir Posted April 28, 2009 Report Share Posted April 28, 2009 To be honest, TOP did a great job filling up our slots. Before TOP, we had MA, GOD, TDE, RIA, ROK, and TTK all on Echelon and a good few of us were taking minor damage.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dvdcchn Posted April 28, 2009 Report Share Posted April 28, 2009 (edited) I'd completely understand if IRON members were upset over this, and hopefully this can be amended after the war. Please look at it from our point of view though, seeing the Gramlins and IRON at war with each other. it is understandable, and most of the assembly understand this, the part that stung was the invocation of OUT when IRON was preemptively attacked by FARK before we entered the war however, i have no doubt we shall remain brothers, as brothers may not always agree, but regardless will stand by each other in the end. Edited April 28, 2009 by dvdcchn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jstep Posted April 28, 2009 Report Share Posted April 28, 2009 (edited) To be honest, TOP did a great job filling up our slots. Before TOP, we had MA, GOD, TDE, RIA, ROK, and TTK all on Echelon and a good few of us were taking minor damage.... we do that No seriously between the 4 alliances there was a decent number of upper level targets going free... so yes these attacks actually were more than jumping on the bandwagon I know I personally am overmatched by the 2 nations I'm facing (top 2 in echelon)... good thing theres more of us Edited April 28, 2009 by jstep Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Rahl Posted April 28, 2009 Report Share Posted April 28, 2009 You're fighting the same enemies and invoking treaty clauses on behalf of alliances in Karma. Let's not run around the mullberry bush. So karma somehow overrides treaties, even if you are not part of karma? We entered for our allies, not for karma. Don't try to lob us into that mess for PR purposes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doitzel Posted April 28, 2009 Report Share Posted April 28, 2009 So karma somehow overrides treaties, even if you are not part of karma? We entered for our allies, not for karma. Don't try to lob us into that mess for PR purposes. I'm not. You're fighting on the same side whether you associate with some name that affiliates a non-codified coalition of alliances, though. The fate of UPN, Invicta, BAPS, and Echelon is linked to the fate of the New Pacific Order and everyone else fighting on that 'side'. Pretending that you're not contributing to the efforts of either side is downright ridiculous, something you'd say for, ah, "PR purposes". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nananana Posted April 28, 2009 Report Share Posted April 28, 2009 (edited) I'm not. You're fighting on the same side whether you associate with some name that affiliates a non-codified coalition of alliances, though. The fate of UPN, Invicta, BAPS, and Echelon is linked to the fate of the New Pacific Order and everyone else fighting on that 'side'. Pretending that you're not contributing to the efforts of either side is downright ridiculous, something you'd say for, ah, "PR purposes". we're doing what we think is "right", if that's how you want to see it, go right ahead, we really couldn't care less. edit: there's no real "right" in an immediate sense, only a least wrong Edited April 28, 2009 by Nananana Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Dan Posted April 28, 2009 Report Share Posted April 28, 2009 This move suprised me only in that I thought they would let the nuke stockpiles deplete for a few more days before they declared. But hey, looks like Bodvar is sitting this war out...as usual. I'm glad we prove you wrong in every horrible assumption you make about us. Maybe you'll stop being so bitter one of these days. One thing is for certain, though, it's not a travesty that members like you left. Bye. (Also, we honor our past: http://ordoparadox.com/top/index.php?showtopic=1081) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timberland Posted April 28, 2009 Report Share Posted April 28, 2009 (edited) Dr.Dan doin it rong, i think he forgot to put the img tags beside the link. Dr.Dan Edited April 28, 2009 by Timberland Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jinnai Posted April 28, 2009 Report Share Posted April 28, 2009 You do realize that using the same ODP that ties us, IRON & TOP, to declares on allies is a blatant spit in the face of IRON?We would probably have accepted any move you would have put to use in this war, but this does not pass. Your entitled to your opinion, but I can tell you a lot of us still feel strongly about you guys. You are not our 2nd oldest MDP level partner for no reason. But I guess this war has just been bad all around and I don't blame you for seeing it as a betrayal considering everything that's happened. Just hope this doesn't ruin a long standing relationship. I see IRON and TOP as brothers; brothers who may not always agree with everything, but those incidents are minor compared to the long term. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crymson Posted April 28, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 28, 2009 You do realize that using the same ODP that ties us, IRON & TOP, to declares on allies is a blatant spit in the face of IRON?We would probably have accepted any move you would have put to use in this war, but this does not pass. We have been in constant and close contact with your leadership since this conflict began, and I am fairly certain that they do not interpret our actions as an insult. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schattenmann Posted April 28, 2009 Report Share Posted April 28, 2009 We have been in constant and close contact with your leadership since this conflict began, and I am fairly certain that they do not interpret our actions as an insult. Unless they're liars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Epik High Posted April 28, 2009 Report Share Posted April 28, 2009 Unless they're liars. Why do you lay these troubles on an already troubled mind? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Some-Guy Posted April 28, 2009 Report Share Posted April 28, 2009 Yes, there are no two ways around this, we are fighting on the side of Karma. It rather makes me want to slit my wrists... but then I remember that both sides of this conflict are equally imbecilic and deceitful. While we have entered the war with our eyes wide open to the consequences, our "Friends and Allies" on both sides of the conflict who have helped push TOP into this position would do well to remember that TOP has them marked for future retribution. Nor shall we forgive those who sparked this war for the most spurious of reasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarriorConcept Posted April 28, 2009 Report Share Posted April 28, 2009 Nonsense. Everything I said I stand behind. And all I said boils down to recognition of the current state of affairs. And they are that TOP has now committed aggressive action against our allies, while we didnt against any of their allies, and that they found themselves in a treaty cluster$%&@ where they could have claimed neutrality and the world would continue to spin, but they did felt the need to jump in which of course has to have reprehensions on our relations. And world continued to spin. Because NPO has never done something like this before? Get of your high horse branimir, you guys have no room to complain about someone nitpicking treaties to follow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unko Kalaikz Posted April 28, 2009 Report Share Posted April 28, 2009 Why do you lay these troubles on an already troubled mind? Lol at the reference there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vol Navy Posted April 28, 2009 Report Share Posted April 28, 2009 Yes, there are no two ways around this, we are fighting on the side of Karma.It rather makes me want to slit my wrists... but then I remember that both sides of this conflict are equally imbecilic and deceitful. While we have entered the war with our eyes wide open to the consequences, our "Friends and Allies" on both sides of the conflict who have helped push TOP into this position would do well to remember that TOP has them marked for future retribution. Nor shall we forgive those who sparked this war for the most spurious of reasons. At least I'm glad TOP has admitted that it's also repulsed by the "Karma" side in this. I've now saw TOP members call some Karma alliances Vultures, Hypocrates, Imbecilic, and Deceitful in this very thread. Much better than the mindless hailing of every act of the Karma side. It's also interesting that you won't forgive those who "sparked" the war. I'm assuming you mean the NPO. Will you forgive the alliances that have been plotting rolling your allies in the NPO for months now? Some of whom you are no doubt allied to and/or fighting side by side with even now. I mean it's obvious to everyone in the entire cyberverse that this war was happening, no matter what, it was happening. NPO and any who stood with them were going to get exactly what is happening now. It may not have happened as quickly but it was a decision TOP was going to have to make. I am surprised that TOP isn't in Karma. You've been very close to NPO for a long time. I'm sure many on your side feel nearly as much ill will towards you as they do the NPO. Sure they are happy now as you are going in a direction they want you to go in, but will they feel this way in 2 months? Will TOP be next? Time will tell on that. But on Bob I've found there is one universal truth, just like the NPO and the rest of Q who didn't leave and their allies are finding out now and some alliances in or fighting for Karma will learn eventually. It can be summed up by a slight modification of William Munny's conversation with the Schofield Kid in Clint Eastwood's Unforgiven. William Munny: Hell of a thing, killin' alliances. Take away all they've got and all they're ever gonna have. Kid: Yeah, well, I guess NPO and their allies had it comin'. William Munny: We all got it comin', kid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragonaspect Posted April 28, 2009 Report Share Posted April 28, 2009 Why do you lay these troubles on an already troubled mind? Late is the hour in which this conjurer chooses to appear. "Lathspell" I name him. Ill news is an ill guest o/ TOP Glad to be on the battlefield with you now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rafael Nadal Posted April 28, 2009 Report Share Posted April 28, 2009 While I certainly am glad to have TOP help out Karma, this only reinforces my skepticism of OUT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caliph Posted April 28, 2009 Report Share Posted April 28, 2009 Nonsense. Everything I said I stand behind. And all I said boils down to recognition of the current state of affairs. And they are that TOP has now committed aggressive action against our allies, while we didnt against any of their allies, and that they found themselves in a treaty cluster$%&@ where they could have claimed neutrality and the world would continue to spin, but they did felt the need to jump in which of course has to have reprehensions on our relations. And world continued to spin. Of course I am sure they rationalized that move. Now, one more thing I said was that I am sorry it has come to that. Now, indeed I am sure that my posts will be attempted to be shredded as they have to because we can not have somebody stating dissonant tones about this here now can we. The thing what I could not have known in full detail was also talked in Dilber Crymson short convo here rounding up this discussion. I am glad it was started to clear the air completely. More fundamentally I guess my reaction is fueled by facing the facts and those are that the two alliance do not share strong bonds anymore which is sad for me. I hope that one can understand that emotional reaction. Nonetheless Pacifica is the bad guy of the hour as that is how the dices turned. I understand that fighting that is basically futile, and we are to be blamed for !@#$@#$ everything. Whatever so be it I made my peace. Being blamed for everything? Wow, that sounds like GOONS and \m/, the exact same way NPO blamed them, GGA and NpO all blamed them for everything wrong the entire Initiative did. GOONS was itching for a go at NPO, so I understand the tensions there, but \m/ was ever your ally and you just threw her aside like yesterdays garbage, fully content with letting them be blamed for a system that you helped create. I don't have any sympathy for NPO at the moment, not after you betrayed \m/, FAN, GOONS, Gen[m]ay, and all the others I am forgetting at the moment. You reap what you have sown. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Buscemi Posted April 28, 2009 Report Share Posted April 28, 2009 It saddens me to see IRON and the NPO destroy our relationship even further with their misguided posts in this thread. I guess we now know your true colors. Also, where is that Valhalla troll that kept posing the "Paradox Vault" images? Now that guy knows how to troll. Come back Anti-Paradox Vault Guy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nobama Posted April 28, 2009 Report Share Posted April 28, 2009 Will you forgive the alliances that have been plotting rolling your allies in the NPO for months now? Some of whom you are no doubt allied to and/or fighting side by side with even now.I mean it's obvious to everyone in the entire cyberverse that this war was happening, no matter what, it was happening. NPO and any who stood with them were going to get exactly what is happening now. It may not have happened as quickly but it was a decision TOP was going to have to make. Strange belief set. So the Karma alliances were plotting darkly over NPO's destruction, it was common knowledge, and yet, knowing this, NPO attacked anyways? Also, very few people in Karma, to my knowledge, disliked TOP. Maybe I'm just coming from an Orange (Vanguard) background, but they were generally seen as the nice guys of tC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bodvar Jarl Posted April 28, 2009 Report Share Posted April 28, 2009 (edited) Face it Branimir. 99% of the people in TOP that remember these ties have long since moved on, divesting themselves of the travesty that this alliance has become.This move suprised me only in that I thought they would let the nuke stockpiles deplete for a few more days before they declared. But hey, looks like Bodvar is sitting this war out...as usual. Just fashionable late to the party...as usual. As for people having complaints and disappointments, I suppose those are justified, mostly. We have wronged, and we have been wronged. If anyone tried to stop this mess, it was us, if anyone is mad at how this came about, it is us. Our entrance is not fair, not just, not glorious, not honourable, it is the grim work we must do as our efforts to prevent this failed and that which we thought stable collapsed. There is no reason to gloss over the truth, or rationalize that which is madness. I sympathize with many of those that complains in this thread, I despise many of those that hails us in this thread. The Platypus will drink the blood of those we fight, it will rip the flesh from their bones, but it does so out of hunger, of necessity, there is no pleasure from hunting in dark waters. It yearns to feast upon the souls of our true enemies, and it's hunger is great. Edited April 28, 2009 by Bodvar Jarl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cataduanes Posted April 28, 2009 Report Share Posted April 28, 2009 I despise many of those that hails us in this thread.. Are you talking about individuals or alliances when you say that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bodvar Jarl Posted April 28, 2009 Report Share Posted April 28, 2009 Are you talking about individuals or alliances when you say that? Could be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sanders Posted April 28, 2009 Report Share Posted April 28, 2009 Being blamed for everything?Wow, that sounds like GOONS and \m/, the exact same way NPO blamed them, GGA and NpO all blamed them for everything wrong the entire Initiative did. GOONS was itching for a go at NPO, so I understand the tensions there, but \m/ was ever your ally and you just threw her aside like yesterdays garbage, fully content with letting them be blamed for a system that you helped create. I don't have any sympathy for NPO at the moment, not after you betrayed \m/, FAN, GOONS, Gen[m]ay, and all the others I am forgetting at the moment. You reap what you have sown. I guess by that logic TOP, Sparta and MHA will start reaping sometime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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