Official IRON Announcement

[Gunslinger]

it is important to note that Mr. Brookbank has been informed that any actions detremental to IRON or her allies will result in his return to our PZI list.

That seems a little odd. Say an alliance he is in fights IRON or an ally he gets put back on PZI? Still glad he is off the list.

[Groucho Marx]

Congrats JB. Hm, now onto our next mission...which is either Free FAN or Free GATO...

Edit: Posting this will get me warned.

Edited April 15, 2009 by Emperor Marx

[Ragashingo]

Um, yeah. IRON still condones and uses PZI/EZI, they've held JB down for months and months, and you guys are puckering up because after a ton of international pressure and after everyone else had let him go they let one person off. And for all that he's still in shackles.

Victory? Hardly. Freedom? Don't make me laugh.

Indeed. In the last few days we've seen alliances declare they will no longer support the harsher forms of ZI and they rightly deserve huge heaps of praise. But this? Well IRON deserves a bit of recognition for finally deciding to stop being tyrants who lorded over JB, but the fact that they are basically reaffirming their belief in the use of ZI lists deserves much more attention.

[Ilya Murometz]

Great job IRON!

I like how he has to play by your rules and can't politically oppose you without being dumped back on EZI. Clean slate, indeed!

They're talking PZI, not EZI.

obligatory edit: Posting this will get me warned.

Edited April 15, 2009 by Ilya Murometz

[o ya baby]

PZI is pretty stupid too. They should both not be practiced. Taking someone there once is enough.

Edited April 15, 2009 by o ya baby

[Lord Stark]

Glad he's off the list.

However, Iron and her allies should be embarrassed that an announcement like this is needed. EZI/PZI should just not be used.

[Bakunin's Dream]

You still practice EZI

who cares

[Ejayrazz]

I have to say I love seeing how all you people are praising IRON and their allies for letting JB off of EZI. I suppose now might be as good as any other time to politely inquire as to why this practice is even necessary in the first place. I suppose it may also be an opportune time for IRON to explain how this is even justified. Or perhaps you can answer the question that we've all been dying to hear for the last several months. Why was Jonathan on your list to begin with? Please, don't bat around the bush this time either.

And then as Doitzel so kindly pointed out, what exactly has changed? You still practice EZI, and JB isn't truly free. Sure he can buy infra, but what else can he do? Can he speak his mind? I have a feeling that could be interpreted as being "detrimental to IRON and its allies" and we'll be seeing him back to being pummeled in no time. You people do have a reputation for rather liberally interpreted the terms you set because you just can't seem to let old grudges go.

If JB joins an alliance which allows freedom of speech, they will be obligated to defend him if IRON chooses the method in which you speak of. I am not disagreeing with your sentiments as the wording was vague in the announcement, but it would be interesting to see where this could go, though I think IRON would be better than this (though, I am MORE than sure you disagree, haha)

Edited April 15, 2009 by Ejayrazz

[mattski133]

If JB joins an alliance which allows freedom of speech, they will be obligated to defend him if IRON chooses the method in which you speak of. I am not disagreeing with your sentiments as the wording was vague in the announcement, but it would be interesting to see where this could go, though I think IRON would be better than this (though, I am MORE than sure you disagree, haha)

You took the words out of my mouth. I have no idea what JB did, and don't care. Hopefully both parties can benefit from this.

[D34th]

Better later than never.

But I agree with some points placed for Doitzel and RV...

Edited April 15, 2009 by D34th

[astronaut jones]

so... basically he's off your list, but as soon as he does something, anything that you don't like, he's back on? So he's conditionally off so long as he never speaks out against iron or iron's allies.. or, say, looks at you funny.

Yeah, okay. woo hoo. congratulations. oh yeah. iron, you're so noble and kind. oh baby.

woo.

give me a break.

[Finster Baby]

I have to say I love seeing how all you people are praising IRON and their allies for letting JB off of EZI. I suppose now might be as good as any other time to politely inquire as to why this practice is even necessary in the first place. I suppose it may also be an opportune time for IRON to explain how this is even justified. Or perhaps you can answer the question that we've all been dying to hear for the last several months. Why was Jonathan on your list to begin with? Please, don't bat around the bush this time either.

And then as Doitzel so kindly pointed out, what exactly has changed? You still practice EZI, and JB isn't truly free. Sure he can buy infra, but what else can he do? Can he speak his mind? I have a feeling that could be interpreted as being "detrimental to IRON and its allies" and we'll be seeing him back to being pummeled in no time. You people do have a reputation for rather liberally interpreted the terms you set because you just can't seem to let old grudges go.

IRON internal affairs are not your concern RV, but he was on our PZI list in support of our allies, and, recently, for attacks for which he apologized for.

As for your second point, I won't get into specifics. However, common sense here will prevail. If we're approached about something he's supposedly done, we'll evaluate it just like we evaluate anything else brought to our attention. That doesn't necessarily mean that if he sneezes he'll be in trouble. If he's a productive member of the community, then things will be fine. If he's not, well, then we'll cross that bridge when we get to it.

[Esukaresu]

You're right, they're monsters for doing this. What they should have said is "Oh by the way, if you want to try and kill us we're totally cool with that."

Actually, I think they would be. I mean hey, who says no to war these days?

[Fokker Aeroplanbau]

Well, since everyone is starting to criticize the announcement - I think I'll jump on this bandwagon. Lord knows I don't do it enough.

*Hops on with both feet*

IRON, I am highly disappointed - HIGHLY disappointed - that you issued this announcement in English. Not only does this discriminate to the Dutch inclined of us, but also the Hispanics, the pirates and the "brothas" on CN who cannot read your exacting form of proper English. What I hope to see is these sort of announcements in several different languages, so as not to favor one ethnic group over another; Dutch Pirate Brothas have feelings too!

[Doitzel]

You're right, they're monsters for doing this. What they should have said is "Oh by the way, if you want to try and kill us we're totally cool with that."

You mean the same kind of killin's he's been doing for the past ... what? 8 months? A year? You mean the stuff that got him on EZI in the first place, actions so heinous that IRON couldn't even tell him what he'd done? And now if he dares join an alliance that might stand in opposition to IRON or her allies he risks being put back in the exact same position he just got out of. Likewise if he dares criticise IRON's policy -- that is detrimental, after all.

The imposition of punishment by you world police types without any sense of proportion to the "crime" -- which half the time you won't even state -- has seen hundreds driven off. Do you think that if maybe, just maybe, you weren't utterly draconian about stomping on the little guy who dared speak out they wouldn't be so adamantly opposed to you? But what am I saying? We all know that the Pacific Order only deals in mercy when they've got something to gain from it.

Frankly if IRON lets someone go and that single individual then turns around and topples IRON the fault is not in your failure to prevent him from coming back, it's in your failure to defend yourselves.

They're talking PZI, not EZI.

He was on EZI. They'd threatened to chase him across re-rolls. Just because they won't use the commonly accepted terminology doesn't mean that's not what it is.

As for your second point, I won't get into specifics. However, common sense here will prevail. If we're approached about something he's supposedly done, we'll evaluate it just like we evaluate anything else brought to our attention. That doesn't necessarily mean that if he sneezes he'll be in trouble. If he's a productive member of the community, then things will be fine. If he's not, well, then we'll cross that bridge when we get to it.

Productive by whose standards?

[Rebel Virginia]

who cares

Most of the world it seems. If that were not the case, I really doubt IRON would be making this obvious PR attempt. It doesn't take a genius to see that the hegemony is losing control, as people are becoming much more vocal. There is also a growing trend in severing alliances with the hegemony as it is no longer necessary to be aligned with it in order to survive. Bad PR has hurt the hegemony's grip on the world, and it is just now beginning to realize that and is hoping to satisfy the mob by releasing JB. Too little too late I personally think. Most people can see through this little ruse and know that were the hegemony not attempting to restore its tatter image JB would still be where he was half a year ago. Grudges aren't let go of so easily, and I for one find it hard to believe that a sudden change of heart was had by IRON.

[joracy]

You're right, they're monsters for doing this. What they should have said is "Oh by the way, if you want to try and kill us we're totally cool with that."

I know, IRON are horrible people. Man I hate those guys.

[o ya baby]

who cares

I'd say majority of the community cares.

[SpoiL]

Good for JB, despite the ever so general conditions.

Still waiting on the 'we don't P-ZI' announcement.

[Ejayrazz]

IRON internal affairs are not your concern RV, but he was on our PZI list in support of our allies, and, recently, for attacks for which he apologized for.

As for your second point, I won't get into specifics. However, common sense here will prevail. If we're approached about something he's supposedly done, we'll evaluate it just like we evaluate anything else brought to our attention. That doesn't necessarily mean that if he sneezes he'll be in trouble. If he's a productive member of the community, then things will be fine. If he's not, well, then we'll cross that bridge when we get to it.

'productive member of the community'

Can you elaborate. This isn't an argumentative attack, just curious to note.

[Finster Baby]

He was on EZI. They'd threatened to chase him across re-rolls. Just because they won't use the commonly accepted terminology doesn't mean that's not what it is.

You're wrong Doitzel.

IRON does not persue across re-rolls. If he had rerolled into a different persona, 1, we wouldn't have known, and 2, even if we did find out about him, if he wasn't doing anything to harm IRON at the time, there's a very good chance that he'd be ignored.

But no, that doesn't meet your needs or your propaganda needs. So you'll just continue to spin.

[Bakunin's Dream]

You mean the same kind of killin's he's been doing for the past ... what? 8 months? A year? You mean the stuff that got him on EZI in the first place, actions so heinous that IRON couldn't even tell him what he'd done? And now if he dares join an alliance that might stand in opposition to IRON or her allies he risks being put back in the exact same position he just got out of. Likewise if he dares criticise IRON's policy -- that is detrimental, after all.

The imposition of punishment by you world police types without any sense of proportion to the "crime" -- which half the time you won't even state -- has seen hundreds driven off. Do you think that if maybe, just maybe, you weren't utterly draconian about stomping on the little guy who dared speak out they wouldn't be so adamantly opposed to you? But what am I saying? We all know that the Pacific Order only deals in mercy when they've got something to gain from it.

Yeah, being "world police" is when you deliberate internally about matters that concern you and decide what to do about it. It's certainly not when you try to dictate other alliances' policy to them. I mean, I'm certain there would be no criticism at all if we did that.

[pd73bassman]

Good move IRON

I am glad to see JB off the lists, I personally think the practice of PZI/EZI is pointless

[Rebel Virginia]

IRON internal affairs are not your concern RV, but he was on our PZI list in support of our allies, and, recently, for attacks for which he apologized for.

Are we going back to the "who don't have to tell you" defense. Worked so well for TPF when they went after NoV, and for many of your other friends. In fact, if my memory serves correct, you lambasted Polar during the last war for using that defense in regards to NADC spying. Hypocrisy much? Furthermore, this is exactly the kind of arrogance that is giving you a bad reputation. Keep digging your grave. That's all you're doing.

As for your second point, I won't get into specifics. However, common sense here will prevail. If we're approached about something he's supposedly done, we'll evaluate it just like we evaluate anything else brought to our attention. That doesn't necessarily mean that if he sneezes he'll be in trouble. If he's a productive member of the community, then things will be fine. If he's not, well, then we'll cross that bridge when we get to it.

Common sense tells me you will do whatever you can get away with. Once again, I am forced to turn to GATO as an example. I don't need to go into details, but we all know you were jerks to them. Why? Because you could get away with it. Not so much today due to the fact people are now starting to notice, but should you crush the dissidents you'll be back on it. Meaning that if those who are getting sick of your antics lose the inevitable war, JB has a good chance of being placed back against the wall for a perceived offense that really ain't all that offensive.

[SpoiL]

You're wrong Doitzel.

IRON does not persue across re-rolls. If he had rerolled into a different persona, 1, we wouldn't have known, and 2, even if we did find out about him, if he wasn't doing anything to harm IRON at the time, there's a very good chance that he'd be ignored.

But no, that doesn't meet your needs or your propaganda needs. So you'll just continue to spin.

You'd ignore him until-and stay with me here- for some strange and bazaar(sarcasm) reason he had a grudge against his captors and acted on that in any way you would quickly use it as a CB to either ZI him and possibly war the alliance he was in. Of course I can't know that you would, but come on? What you said isn't very assuring.