CNRP OOC Thread

[Lynneth]

An interesting fun fact:

I RP my Chairman as AI because it got approved by GMs after I convinced them that it is, in fact, very feasible in the near future (~20-30 years) that AIs could be made with the necessary computing power. Learning programmes already exist. And AI is merely a more sophisticated version of that and is very much possible. (Though I must confess I'm quite optimistic; Some claim we won't have AIs until 2200 or something and that computers will soon begin to advance more slowly).
Anyways.
I RP the Chairman as AI. This is what I do. How others see him, that's entirely up to them. If they want to see him as AI, great. If they want to see him as a guy sitting deep in a bunker pretending to be an AI, that's fine by me, too. I do SCIENCE, and have fun by doing so.

While I do not [i]approve[/i] of actual Gods being brought into CNRP, it's up to everyone's interpretation if it's really a god or just a delusional madman pretending to be one. It's just like with my Chairman - with one difference.
I don't see GM-approval.
If Mael can rectify that single thing, then I will happily accept that his leader MAY be an actual "higher entity", though I will of course never accept it's omniscient or omnipotent. It may be fueled by faith, it may not, but it's just as "human" and fallible as everyone else. Because it's RPd by a human.


That is my opinion.

[Centurius]

[quote name='Emperor Mudd' date='11 February 2010 - 09:36 AM' timestamp='1265877391' post='2174343']
Hey everybody (mostly Uberstein since everyone else is being perfectly reasonable): stop being whiny little kids. RP is supposed to be fun. It doesn't matter what the "rules" are, if one or more people decide to have an RP than literallly anything can happen. This forum was way better back before you spoiled meglomaniacs started trying to impose your "rules" and !@#$ on us. Its ROLE PLAYING. Get over it.
[/quote]

Fully agreed, hell for as far as I care you guys rp monsters as citizens of your nation or something as long as it doesn't have superpowers. We should return to the days where elements of Fantasy in a Fantasy forum are allowed.

[Lynneth]

[quote name='Centurius' date='11 February 2010 - 02:41 PM' timestamp='1265895709' post='2174652']
Fully agreed, hell for as far as I care you guys rp monsters as citizens of your nation or something as long as it doesn't have superpowers. We should return to the days where elements of Fantasy in a Fantasy forum are allowed.
[/quote]
No Gundamns, please.

(even though SIEG ZEON)

[Sargun II]

Gods? okay. have fun.

[b]Real[/b] Gods coming down to earth and ruling nations? Make it so that if somebody doesn't want to recognize Gods, there is an alternative acceptable to you. I don't accept for fact half of the stuff that Kaiser Martens used to do but I didn't raise a big fuss about it. Find a reasonable alternative that is acceptable to both sides in the case that somebody doesn't want to RP this, and move on with it.

[Maelstrom Vortex]

[quote name='Lynneth' date='11 February 2010 - 08:41 AM' timestamp='1265895681' post='2174650']
An interesting fun fact:

I RP my Chairman as AI because it got approved by GMs after I convinced them that it is, in fact, very feasible in the near future (~20-30 years) that AIs could be made with the necessary computing power. Learning programmes already exist. And AI is merely a more sophisticated version of that and is very much possible. (Though I must confess I'm quite optimistic; Some claim we won't have AIs until 2200 or something and that computers will soon begin to advance more slowly).
Anyways.
I RP the Chairman as AI. This is what I do. How others see him, that's entirely up to them. If they want to see him as AI, great. If they want to see him as a guy sitting deep in a bunker pretending to be an AI, that's fine by me, too. I do SCIENCE, and have fun by doing so.

While I do not [i]approve[/i] of actual Gods being brought into CNRP, it's up to everyone's interpretation if it's really a god or just a delusional madman pretending to be one. It's just like with my Chairman - with one difference.
I don't see GM-approval.
If Mael can rectify that single thing, then I will happily accept that his leader MAY be an actual "higher entity", though I will of course never accept it's omniscient or omnipotent. It may be fueled by faith, it may not, but it's just as "human" and fallible as everyone else. Because it's RPd by a human.


That is my opinion.
[/quote]

I'm not even having him really considered more than anything but a Patron Deity, the way I have the religion works out doesn't qualify them as true gods. They are at best as powerful as their home states and the states that support them. That's why they're often referred to as such or as "Dreamers". They don't have, in fact, any of the O's. They may have some nifty tricks up their sleeves if you and your population believe in them but otherwise relatively inert. It's a different way to manifest the powers of a CN nation through RP, instead of having an actual bordered nation I'm playing a religion that has no borders but a set population and relative strength.

So in essence, it will be like a strongly organized RL church like the Catholics giving support or such to some states.. condemning others. While a direct impact may not be felt, a partial impact of the strength of that religion is felt for its friends and against its foes when it does such things as take sides in a war publicly. In my mind it adds extra dimension and depth to the possibilities within Bob rather than cause any serious trouble.

A role play moderator looked through the thread last night. No objection was noted.

[Uberstein]

Well then what's the point of having any guidelines if there is no difference between CNRP canon and non-canon? Why not just remove the map? Remove all the rules, and disband CNRP for fantasy RP because it seems everyone wants there to be absolutely no restriction on what can be canon.

I'm also against dead characters returning from the dead. Once someone's dead, they don't come back.

[AmpaSand]

I just think its sad that you have to cry about this. It's evident he does not want to play in the correct setting and is cryings when his powergaming techniques are being called out. That said, other things mentioned, like AI, should be struck from canon as well.

Edited February 11, 2010 by AmpaSand

[Markus Wilding]

[quote name='AmpaSand' date='11 February 2010 - 02:46 PM' timestamp='1265917579' post='2175318']
I just think its sad that you have to cry about this. It's evident he does not want to play in the correct setting and is cryings when his powergaming techniques are being called out. That said, other things mentioned, like AI, should be struck from canon as well.
[/quote]
Why do you think Lynneth's AI should be done away with? He already has GM approval, it doesn't affect anyone (other than being face-to-face with a robot) he's RPed it out and he has the technology to back it up.

[Voodoo Nova]

One thing everyone needs to remember is just because one person [i]claims[/i] they are a Deity, AI, God, etc, does not make it true. We can call them madmen, crazy, or anything else we can think of. Look at real life, people claim they are Siddhartha Guatama reincarnate and some people believe it and others do not. Some people may state they were abducted by aliens and some people believe it and others don't. As long as if the people do not have any fantasy/non-human abilities (flying, half dragon, can compute three million numbers of pi in 3 seconds, etc), I don't really care what people call their characters.

[Sarah Tintagyl]

Welcome to interactive RP everybody.

Here's the thing, whether it's powergamimg, innocent role-play or whatever. No matter what Uberstein says, or no matter what Maelstrom counters with, neither of them will ever agree with one another. The idea of CNRP Canon, is starting to amuse me, because there are so many different ideas of what people want to be Canon or how they look at Canon. I remember when Tahsir told me once about how CNRP was going down the drain because we allowed too many goofy-things, most notably the recent god-avatars, and Cybil's werewolf things. Personally I see no fault with Mael's cult, if he tries to bring his old leader back from the dead, then yes I will have a problem with it and not recognize it. But recognization only goes so far, recognization isn't going to stop Mael from RPing it, can stop other people from RPing with him. (But lets be honest, since when did CNRP really play together nicely?)

Uber, I understand your concern, but this policing of everything that happens is kind of like, why? who cares? I mean I can postulate where this Cult thing is going to end up, not telling my opinion, but I'll be laughing quietly if I'm right. But really, are you two going to argue about almost a character role-play. If you don't like that people are seeing gods that's fine, I have no intention of having my characters see Mael's gods or the idea of statism, cause it goes against what I'm planning to RP in the future. If other people want to see it fine, that's their choice and if you don't want to, be like the English looked at Joan of Arc. Crazy. There's better ways to do arguments through IC-means of writing then both of you coming here and making argument and counter-argument of way your RP should stick.

[Executive Minister]

Ehhh... no offense, really, but I'd have to agree with Uberstein on this one.

I have to say the example that [i]'Thor himself would come down from the clouds and have an interview with Stephen Colbert'[/i] as being made canon is really silly, but really illustrates my position on this. I mean, it was bad enough that we have some kind of dancing spiritual whatchamacaulit pendants, Fenrir speaking out of a goblet and other like-minded things. LVN's comments about CNRPS pretty much sums up my views on the matter...

But this IS just my OOC opinion, and it holds no weight or merit to any discussion, just like Mael's that [i]'there IS a god that's why my RP should be just as plausible as Lynneth's'[/i], not to bash him, and if that wasn't his intention I apologize.

I don't really accept RP's that I deem, 'silly' and quite frankly I just lump them together with all the other 'tongue-in-cheek' RPs like the bloggers and the stephen colbert clones, again no offense. You shouldn't care what I think- I just operate under the notion that, [i]'yes, the author did not write non-canon under the title which may or may not imply his/her desire to declare this actual canonity, but i'll just ignore this because i'll never reference it myself in my own Rps, and it probably won't affect me either way'[/i].

In all honesty, why do we even care what is or isn't canon? All of us basically operate in our own mini-canons, and can pick and choose to our likings what is a part of our own world- CNRP HAS NO CONTINUITY WHATSOEVER, so it doesn't really matter.

As long as these things remain internal, or just between the participants and those that wish to use them for future RPs, its fine. The second it interferes in my own or forces me to actively participate in this kind of RP, it won't be. That said, uberstein, while i can sympathize with your points, albeit for probably different reasons than your own, any of these supernatural rps should not be treated as less credible as others, no matter what you think of them.

As for IC, it really is up to the owners of individual nations. If, god-forbid, Thor DOES come down and speak with Stephen Colbert(s) and their derivatives, then someone like Mael can have their nation say "This is truely a monumental moment in history". Someone like Uber or me could just say "Bah! What fools!" and be done with it, or better still, just not say anything at all. Now, if lets say me and Mael start waring (assume we are at par with one another IG) and he starts pulling victory after victory due to the strength of Fenrir at his side would I have a problem and ask for a mod wipe.

Again, this really does boil down to my No Forced RP rule.

EDIT: Crud, Sarah beat me to the punch.

Edited February 11, 2010 by Executive Minister

[Il Terra Di Agea]

Alright, I have a few points to make about this whole situation:

1) Religious RP would not be pointless without RPed deities who have powers in the CNRP world. Honestly, it raises a big problem toward allowing magic, which I am definitely not in favor of.

1a) Mael, you made the point that Ghosts, Spirits and Gods were not "magic" in the thread. I have little to say that wouldn't be flat out defining "Magic and pointing at it fervently, but there is no concrete, scientific evidence that ghosts, spirits or gods exist. The vast majority of the scientific community discounts them as fiction, and unless there is some study by credible sources that states otherwise, they are floating apparitions with the power to control elements, defy death, and resist the generally accepted laws of physics and nature; and that really sounds like magic to me.

2)The forums are dying because this stuff is disallowed; I don't see it. There are better arguments to be made about a lot of other actions that are killing the RP, lack of magic really doesn't seem to be one of them.

3) "You have faith in Science, but no faith in God. Science has become your religion." Sure, there is an argument to be made there, but there is one major difference between Science and Faith, Science presents concrete evidence and makes changes to itself when it is proven wrong. And despite the fact that faith is hard to technically disprove (As it isn't supposed to leave evidence and the like), Faith does not.

4) They are not gods because I don't call them that, and they are only all powerful in their home states; Err... Alright, so a god only counts as a god if they are called a god, and if they can control the entire planet and universe at once? Is that what you are saying? Correct me if I'm wrong there.

5) Lynneth's AI; To change pace for a moment, it is hypothetically possible. All the basics parts are possible with modern science, the only issue would be combining them, easily possible in the near to distant future. Already we can remove the heads from animals and keep them alive, we can put mechanical systems in a brain that allow the functioning brain to control computer interfaces, there are specialized fluids that can simulate blood and carry oxygen to the brain/ head that is off of the body, and we have already proven that cells from a brain can continue to function as the processor of a specialized computer. The only problem is actually combining them into a single entity.

6) Rising from the grave (in a non-zombie fashion); Alright, I guess this is the big point of this argument, can Maelstrom RP Maelstrom coming back to life. In my opinion, sort of. Sure, there are ways you could RP getting him back, he faked his death, something like that. I am not however, okay with the "Brought back to life because he is lizard-man Jesus." My problem is not that you are RPing a new religion being founded on the grave of your character, it's that you are honestly RPing it as magic really happening; That Maelstrom is a ghost coming back to life because god let him. As I said earlier, it opens a whole can of worms that can't be shut. We let magic in, people will bloody use it, and it will turn in a gigantic pile of godmodding really darn fast.

A Final Note) Maelstrom, you seem to be taking this more personally than you should. This isn't an assault on your ability to RP, or on your faith, or on your person; This about actions in the RP. We don't need to turn this into an argument about whether or not there is a true god, or if ghosts and spirits exist, or about what people believe will happen in the afterlife.

[JerreyRough]

[quote name='Emperor Mudd' date='11 February 2010 - 01:36 AM' timestamp='1265877391' post='2174343']
Hey everybody (mostly Uberstein since everyone else is being perfectly reasonable): stop being whiny little kids. RP is supposed to be fun. It doesn't matter what the "rules" are, if one or more people decide to have an RP than literallly anything can happen. This forum was way better back before you spoiled meglomaniacs started trying to impose your "rules" and !@#$ on us. Its ROLE PLAYING. Get over it.
[/quote][quote name='Sargun' date='11 February 2010 - 06:58 AM' timestamp='1265896699' post='2174677']
Gods? okay. have fun.

[b]Real[/b] Gods coming down to earth and ruling nations? Make it so that if somebody doesn't want to recognize Gods, there is an alternative acceptable to you. I don't accept for fact half of the stuff that Kaiser Martens used to do but I didn't raise a big fuss about it. Find a reasonable alternative that is acceptable to both sides in the case that somebody doesn't want to RP this, and move on with it.
[/quote][quote name='Voodoo Nova' date='11 February 2010 - 01:17 PM' timestamp='1265919476' post='2175376']
One thing everyone needs to remember is just because one person [i]claims[/i] they are a Deity, AI, God, etc, does not make it true. We can call them madmen, crazy, or anything else we can think of. Look at real life, people claim they are Siddhartha Guatama reincarnate and some people believe it and others do not. Some people may state they were abducted by aliens and some people believe it and others don't. As long as if the people do not have any fantasy/non-human abilities (flying, half dragon, can compute three million numbers of pi in 3 seconds, etc), I don't really care what people call their characters.
[/quote]
I agree to these three opinions.

And on the whole "coming back from the dead" thing, I also agree to not approve/not allow it. [b]However[/b], that does not stop a character from researching/stalking/finding out every single thing possible about the character Maelstrom IC, and then claiming to be Maelstrom's incarnate via acting and thinking exactly like him. The character will never truly be Maelstrom, but effectively can be under the "over-the-top zealous worshipers" category.

[Cybil de Blanc]

Sarah: Yeah...I have to admit, if I made a separate canon where my werewolf-thingies could properly exist, it wouldn't be a problem. But this is realistic canon, and there is a place for everything; religion is fine, but sword and sorcery is not.

Basically, I'm with Uberstein here. A Great Temple's presence does not make for the presence of magic.

[Bacharth]

I think we solved this earlier a while ago with a little poll. We don't have to recognize each others stuff as part of your world. CNRP is not one complete community, it's a bunch of people on the map who follow basic guidelines, or they don't. Just give up the argument already, it's stupid. Uberstein, you don't recognize anyone, so why does this matter mean so much to you? You guys are acting like you're ten. I expect this from half of you, but not from Maelstrom.

[Sargun II]

Actually, I completely expected this from Maelstrom. And Uberstein.

[Uberstein]

[quote name='Vince Sixx' date='11 February 2010 - 04:58 PM' timestamp='1265936302' post='2175974']
I think we solved this earlier a while ago with a little poll. We don't have to recognize each others stuff as part of your world. CNRP is not one complete community, it's a bunch of people on the map who follow basic guidelines, or they don't. Just give up the argument already, it's stupid. Uberstein, you don't recognize anyone, so why does this matter mean so much to you? You guys are acting like you're ten. I expect this from half of you, but not from Maelstrom.
[/quote]
Name one nation I don't currently recognize.

Really, name ONE.

[Fizzydog]

Me.


I would love a free new version. You know, whatever you want. The only thing capped are nukes. You get one "free" nuke. Once you use, no more till you get nukes. How fun would that be?

[Uberstein]

[quote name='Fizzydog' date='11 February 2010 - 05:17 PM' timestamp='1265937447' post='2176009']
Me.


I would love a free new version. You know, whatever you want. The only thing capped are nukes. You get one "free" nuke. Once you use, no more till you get nukes. How fun would that be?
[/quote]
I'm not recognizing you? O_o

Didn't realize it.

[Cybil de Blanc]

In my opinion, if you guys want a fantasy-based canon, why not try making one up? For example, elementals are awesome beings to one such as myself, and as such, I have them play a role in the [i]Steam & Cog Campaign[/i]. Yeah, it takes planning, but it works.

[Subtleknifewielder]

[quote name='Vince Sixx' date='11 February 2010 - 04:58 PM' timestamp='1265936302' post='2175974']
I think we solved this earlier a while ago with a little poll. We don't have to recognize each others stuff as part of your world. CNRP is not one complete community, it's a bunch of people on the map who follow basic guidelines, or they don't. Just give up the argument already, it's stupid. Uberstein, you don't recognize anyone, so why does this matter mean so much to you? You guys are acting like you're ten. I expect this from half of you, but not from Maelstrom.
[/quote]
Actually, Uberstein has not refused to recognize anyone anymore.

His objection is to the 'magical' aspect.

Ubie, you could always just put it down to trickery of some sort. After all, even with what he's done, the character isn't going to rule directly anyway.

[Fizzydog]

[quote name='BaronUberstein' date='11 February 2010 - 07:19 PM' timestamp='1265937540' post='2176011']
I'm not recognizing you? O_o

Didn't realize it.
[/quote]


Well, I don't know you. Do you know me?

[Uberstein]

[quote name='Fizzydog' date='11 February 2010 - 05:29 PM' timestamp='1265938192' post='2176027']
Well, I don't know you. Do you know me?
[/quote]
Not really. <__<

[king of cochin]

I thought I would add my two bits in this mess of an argument.

I dont see any problem why anyone should object to maelstrom's theme. What some person calls as supernatural another person can just as well call it hallucinations or imaginations. Just dont accept what you dont want to accept and all is well.

For example, in the meeting with Rama Varma and Maelstrom Vortex, they have a face to face conversation, such an effect can be easily explained by a holographic projector skilfully concealed. Now it is all a matter of what one chooses to believe.

If Uberstein refuses to agree with MV's spirit idea, let him just dismiss it IC saying "Bah, just hallucinations." Why do you feel this need to stop it from happening? As far as my involvement in this RP goes, I dont have any problem with this being canon, he is even allowed to set up a temple in my capital. Now he can claim anything happening in that place, but IC that is still my territory so I am the ultimate arbiter of what [i]actually[/i] happens there. Almost all aspects of magic can nowadays be explained away with stagecraft. Even if MV says his followers saw the Dragon Emperor flying and shooting blots of lightning, we can always explain it away as a bunch of religious doddards having a hallucinations. So long as what he does or RPs does not infringe upon your RPs why the need to object?

It is same like the question of propaganda. I dont have the right to RP events and people in another player's nation, but that does not mean I cannot issue propaganda about things happening there!

Seriously think smarter about this people, rules and guidelines have very special purposes, understand them and employ them, not just make them walls of a prison.

[Cybil de Blanc]

I'm not sure why I didn't think of that before, KoC. Thanks for the idea.