Lord Hitchcock Posted February 10, 2016 Report Share Posted February 10, 2016 I want us to go back to those days, the only difference is we never stayed under 10k ns to wage wars. I want DK to go back to the time where you cross us once we just nuke you, the world has gotten to boring without it How long have you been on this planet? The entire lower tier dominance on planet Bob was DS at one point with badlands (when they had General Chow and Co- who make M Inc look like Ghandi) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mogar Posted February 10, 2016 Report Share Posted February 10, 2016 Go away Mogar. The difference between us is I know how toxic I can be, and intentionally avoid being the highest government official in any alliance I am in government of. Your own ego is what will kill your alliance, tell me how successful you've been at getting anyone that isn't DK to sign anything with you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sephiroth Posted February 10, 2016 Report Share Posted February 10, 2016 (edited) The difference between us is I know how toxic I can be, and intentionally avoid being the highest government official in any alliance I am in government of. Your own ego is what will kill your alliance, tell me how successful you've been at getting anyone that isn't DK to sign anything with you? His way of trying to get treaties signed is attack an alliance, then offer them a protectorate if they betray their allies. Not a very effective way of making friends. Edited February 10, 2016 by Sephiroth Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhizoctonia Posted February 10, 2016 Report Share Posted February 10, 2016 And I understand that this is Junka's reasoning- however he's going to get some lessons in war econ micro edition 101. First, the nation's M Inc is hitting verse the nation's of SNXs lower tier has already been a blood bad. Given the wonder advantages, some (most) of the SNX nations can't win a ground battle, even if they deployed 100% and hit in a quad. So that leaves it to SNX flowing aid one-way- which basically means SNX is paying their lower tier to fund is continuously to pound them. Even better is when troops are added to the equation as it forces them to not be able to turtle. Now if that isn't already in our best interest- believe it or not- we do have access to foreign aid (we simply don't need it our first week of fighting). So that brings us to our current position: by continuing to beat up SNXs lower tier- all that's going to do is purge nations from planet Bob. Which the political backlash for that is frowned upon among the entire community. And it also hurts them as well. For every 5 nations, 1 may last a year. And during that 1 nations build- they ship thousands of tech over the course of their career. This was a move the doomsphere capsized on. By picking up all these little micros, they've been able to milk a lot of tech. And I'm today's world- tech value is beyond the 9 million for 100 if it was possible as the supply and demand has dried up the market with more older nations than new. So yes, we can continue to pound SNXs lower tier and force nations out- but why should they have to pay for not understanding how selfish and ego stricken junka is? So if SNX plans to win the war economically- and I truely believe Junka perceives your same view- then months down the road when his nations are leaving he'll reconsider his strategy. Just like how tywinn's worked got many nations purged. Same idiot. Different name. Same results. You do not have to keep pounding the lower tier, you can simply make them surrender, they can join a POW AA for awhile, or if they're unhappy with where they're at, allow them to surrender and join another alliance that can maybe offer them more protection. But to not pound a member for their leader's mistakes or ignorance would mean larger wars would be quite boring, because in reality, everyone on the losing end of a war (even a winning side) is paying for their leader/Government's choices, this is nothing new. You seem to want to force Tywin out, or have his alliance turn on him....allowing people to just get peace and not surrender or not continue to beat down is not going to accomplish that. If someone is unwilling to surrender and/or leave their alliance, they are in fact an enemy and shouldn't get special treatment. I'm all for not losing new members by making them quit the world because they just got started and got destroyed, but if you wan't to force pressure on SNX to admit defeat or dethrone Tywin, you are going to have to keep doing so. You publicly proclaiming your victory over them without them actually doing so is pointless and counts for nothing. Plus...when has Minc ever cared about political backlash. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White Chocolate Posted February 10, 2016 Report Share Posted February 10, 2016 (edited) Junka caused that all on his own by purposely provoking them, he knew what that announcement would cause aNiMaLz to do. Breaking a pact with them is always cause for war, especially a peace pact. If cancelling a treaty were always a cause for war, there would be a lot more war on Planet Bob. In fact, feel free to give a few historical examples of where an alliance decided to attack another alliance based on the CB of "you dropped our treaty." The way you spin this, one would think that SNX somehow actually violated a treaty and that isn't what happened. On the other hand, there are plenty of examples of a treaty being dropped and then alliances ending up on the opposite side of a war. However one does not necessarily cause the other and it certainly isn't an aggressive act to drop a treaty. Edited February 10, 2016 by White Chocolate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Zigur Posted February 10, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 10, 2016 (edited) The difference between us is I know how toxic I can be, and intentionally avoid being the highest government official in any alliance I am in government of. Your own ego is what will kill your alliance, tell me how successful you've been at getting anyone that isn't DK to sign anything with you? You seem to think SNX members are a bunch of ignorant sheep who are not aware of the pluses and negatives of my leadership. They are intelligent and capable of making their own opinions. You also make the mistake of thinking that we follow a standard FA path and desire to ally "all and sundry." As a leader I have zero desire to be bogged down by a bunch of other FA interests and want to be free to seize opportunities as they arrive, without waiting days or weeks for slower alliances to give their opinions. The DK-SNX relationship has been extremely beneficial for us, and is why we have more than doubled our NS in the last six months. That would not have been possible if we had to answer to a bunch of other political interests. The quickest road to stagnation is to have alot of treaties. Edited February 10, 2016 by Immortan Junka Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhizoctonia Posted February 10, 2016 Report Share Posted February 10, 2016 If cancelling a treaty were always a cause for war, there would be a lot more war on Planet Bob. In fact, feel free to give a few historical examples of where an alliance decided to attack another alliance based on the CB of "you dropped our treaty." The way you spin this, one would think that SNX somehow actually violated a treaty and that isn't what happened. On the other hand, there are plenty of examples of a treaty being dropped and then alliances ending up on the opposite side of a war. However one does not necessarily cause the other and it certainly isn't an aggressive act to drop a treaty. ^agree Plus, the times where there is drama after a treaty is canceled usually involves something more than a NAP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sephiroth Posted February 10, 2016 Report Share Posted February 10, 2016 (edited) If cancelling a treaty were always a cause for war, there would be a lot more war on Planet Bob. In fact, feel free to give a few historical examples of where an alliance decided to attack another alliance based on the CB of "you dropped our treaty." The way you spin this, one would think that SNX somehow actually violated a treaty and that isn't what happened. Ever since he started the first war with aNiMaLz, he tried blaming every minute of the war on me (despite me fighting GOONS) to try poaching them, to try pressuring me into signing a treaty with him. Then he tried poaching them again using his NAP he got with them while trying to pressure them again to leave the LPC to join him or he would break 90 Day Non-Aggression Pact, which the peace was based on. Also when he attacked aNiMaLz for hitting TAO, it was because TAO suddenly threatened to cancel on aNiMaLz if they didn't betray the LPC right after TAO signed with SNX. So he did break the treaty, since it was suppose to have 90 days of Non-Aggression before being altered & he decided to break it anyways if aNiMaLz didn't betray the LPC. Edited February 10, 2016 by Sephiroth Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Zigur Posted February 10, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 10, 2016 It is impossible to "poach" alliances Methrage, alliances are free and sovereign entities capable of making their own FA choices. Well besides in LPCN, where your member-groups are simply subordinate AAs rather than actual alliances, according to your ideological arguments. Animalz might be willing to surrender their sovereignty to you, stop obsessing because SNX won't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sephiroth Posted February 10, 2016 Report Share Posted February 10, 2016 It is impossible to "poach" alliances Methrage, alliances are free and sovereign entities capable of making their own FA choices. Well besides in LPCN, where your member-groups are simply subordinate AAs rather than actual alliances, according to your ideological arguments. Animalz might be willing to surrender their sovereignty to you, stop obsessing because SNX won't. When you decide to attack allies to try altering their FA choices, sometimes an example needs to be made on why you shouldn't harass our allies while I'm stuck in war with GOONS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galerion Posted February 10, 2016 Report Share Posted February 10, 2016 Then he tried poaching them again using his NAP he got with them while trying to pressure them again to leave the LPC to join him or he would break 90 Day Non-Aggression Pact, which the peace was based on. False there was no "or he would break 90 Day Non-Aggression Pact" it had been declared cancelled there was no threat that you are implying just an option for future negotiations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Zigur Posted February 10, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 10, 2016 When you decide to attack allies to try altering their FA choices That did not happen. Animalz attacked us because I said I did not recognize your pretend-court. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sephiroth Posted February 10, 2016 Report Share Posted February 10, 2016 False there was no "or he would break 90 Day Non-Aggression Pact" it had been declared cancelled there was no threat that you are implying just an option for future negotiations. Whatever spin you want to put on him breaking the treaty early really doesn't matter at this point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galerion Posted February 10, 2016 Report Share Posted February 10, 2016 Whatever spin you want to put on him breaking the treaty early really doesn't matter at this point. I don't need to spin anything that was the order of things fact. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sephiroth Posted February 10, 2016 Report Share Posted February 10, 2016 When you guys declared on me, even though I was still fighting GOONS and broke it made me happy. All that time in anarchy Junka had been stacking up the reasons to hit him, so who attacked who in this most recent skirmish is the least of my issues with Junka. He betrayed my trust & tried turning allies against me behind my back; as well as betrayed the trust of my good allies. I'm almost sure Junka had a roll in getting TAO to betray their treaty with aNiMaLz as well, so its incident after incident. If I didn't consider him a friend previously, he wouldn't have gotten away with nearly as much before this outcome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devialance Posted February 10, 2016 Report Share Posted February 10, 2016 How long have you been on this planet? The entire lower tier dominance on planet Bob was DS at one point with badlands (when they had General Chow and Co- who make M Inc look like Ghandi) You call 10k ns and below the lower tier ? uuummmm sure Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devialance Posted February 10, 2016 Report Share Posted February 10, 2016 When you guys declared on me, even though I was still fighting GOONS and broke it made me happy. All that time in anarchy Junka had been stacking up the reasons to hit him, so who attacked who in this most recent skirmish is the least of my issues with Junka. He betrayed my trust & tried turning allies against me behind my back; as well as betrayed the trust of my good allies. I'm almost sure Junka had a roll in getting TAO to betray their treaty with aNiMaLz as well, so its incident after incident. If I didn't consider him a friend previously, he wouldn't have gotten away with nearly as much before this outcome. Stop with this fighting goonz BS, its already been proven the last attack on you from goons was a month ago, the wars you are in now with goons they done zero damage to you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sephiroth Posted February 10, 2016 Report Share Posted February 10, 2016 (edited) Stop with this fighting goonz BS, its already been proven the last attack on you from goons was a month ago, the wars you are in now with goons they done zero damage to you I know better than to respond to your type on most occasions, but this is the war I was fighting when attacked by SNX, http://www.cybernations.net/war_information.asp?ID=798765 Also here was the war I was fighting when SNX convinced a TAO nation to attack me, as he invaded aNiMaLz to keep me staggered and help GOONS. http://www.cybernations.net/war_information.asp?ID=797959 http://www.cybernations.net/war_information.asp?ID=798080 So its a pattern, he starts a war with aNiMaLz while I'm fighting GOONS; then also gets one of his allies to hit me as I'm fighting GOONS to ensure I remain staggered. I let the TAO incident slide & last war with aNiMaLz because of the NAP whiich should have ensured peace for at least 90 days, but his crimes add up & he decided against us not agreeing on peace for even that long. Edited February 10, 2016 by Sephiroth Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White Chocolate Posted February 10, 2016 Report Share Posted February 10, 2016 That was one of the best posts of the thread and that's your best come back? SNX would be wise to listen to Mogar here, SNX has no future with you as leader. Next time you think you want to take down the leader of an alliance, Sephiroth, do us all a favor and JOIN THE ALLIANCE and go through whatever process that alliance has to change leadership. Posting on the OWF doesn't work. I've been a part of this community since the summer of 2008 and I don't remember it ever working that way. In the case of SNX, if you joined them when you decided you hated Junka and spent half the effort on their forums you are here telling them why Junka isn't the leader for them and what you can do better, you would of had some chance of being successful and winning a vote. As things currently are, you have 0 chance of doing what you claim you want. At best (assuming there is ANY truth to your claims that people there are asking for peace) what you might get is people leaving AFTER the war. If they move to your alliance, they get what they deserve. I have tried to give you the benefit of the doubt but at this point I'm showing MORE respect for you by presuming that all your talk about caring in any way about SNX is hogwash. Drop it. No one is mislead and you're insulting the intelligence of the rest of us with every post you make. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sephiroth Posted February 10, 2016 Report Share Posted February 10, 2016 (edited) Next time Junka wants to influence one of my allies, he shouldn't black mail them into betraying me by attacking them while my hands are tied in an extended war which gave me a lot of time to see what he was doing, but would attack me to keep in me anarchy; so I won't help my allies. The first betrayal was of my trust, when I told my allies he was alright and a friend, so we could trust him. He turned out to be the opposite and took advantage of that to the fullest. When most alliances were raiding him & saying he would fail, I was one of the few who supported his rise. Thinking he wouldn't really be a completely different person from the Junkalunka I knew with a name change, but he betrayed my trust and even when I've let many incidents slide and make clear to him the reason aNiMaLz hit TAO was thye asked them to betray the LPC, so I hope he doesn't make the same mistake. Sure enough he does do the same thing to provoke another war. If the treaty cancellation was more civilized and didn't involve Junka trying to turn my allies against me after he just saw the result of that when TAO did it; then I might have favored restraint. However seeing him do the same thing TAO did to provoke the first war with aNiMaLz to them directly again; when he was most likely behind TAO doing it; was more than enough reason for aNiMaLz to fight and us to back them up to the fullest. If Junka wants to try breaking away allies from one by one with black mail & violence, we might as well fight him together and knock any idea he has of ever interfering with the LPC ever again. Edited February 10, 2016 by Sephiroth Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White Chocolate Posted February 10, 2016 Report Share Posted February 10, 2016 Next time Junka ... If Junka wants to try breaking away allies from one by one with black mail & violence, we might as well fight him together and knock any idea he has of ever interfering with the LPC ever again. You're wrong here as well. I was on the opposite side of Junka during the Doom War. I held rather negative opinions of him at the time, but he was never some kind of infra hugger. He was opinionated and annoyingly "old school" (that hasn't changed) and like you had/has a hard time knowing when to quit when it came to posting. However, he was/is NOT the type that will stop believing or doing anything (or "learn" whatever "lesson" you think you're going to "teach" him) just because his nation is attacked. We tried. If you want to fight more, that works for us, but drop your fantasy that you're going to change him in any way because you will fail. He and you are both made of the same headstrong and inflexible personality type. Is he going to stop you from doing anything you want to do by attacking you or making more OWF posts? If the answer is no then you might as well be looking in the mirror. Less talk, more war. Once you're tired of war you know where to find me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devialance Posted February 10, 2016 Report Share Posted February 10, 2016 I know better than to respond to your type on most occasions, but this is the war I was fighting when attacked by SNX, http://www.cybernations.net/war_information.asp?ID=798765 Also here was the war I was fighting when SNX convinced a TAO nation to attack me, as he invaded aNiMaLz to keep me staggered and help GOONS. http://www.cybernations.net/war_information.asp?ID=797959 http://www.cybernations.net/war_information.asp?ID=798080 So its a pattern, he starts a war with aNiMaLz while I'm fighting GOONS; then also gets one of his allies to hit me as I'm fighting GOONS to ensure I remain staggered. I let the TAO incident slide & last war with aNiMaLz because of the NAP whiich should have ensured peace for at least 90 days, but his crimes add up & he decided against us not agreeing on peace for even that long. First link is not GOONs, second link the war ended 4th Jan, 3rd link the war ended, 8th of Jan. So you know we are now 10th of Feb a whole month and then some after the two links you posted vs goons ended. So again STOP posting this BS about you fighting GOONs its just laughable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Zigur Posted February 10, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 10, 2016 (edited) and like you had/has a hard time knowing when to quit when it came to posting. This is certainly true for my part, but now that I look at the stats and see both Limitless Nexus and Monsters Inc aka "Kashmir" are not even top 120 alliances anymore, and Animalz is ranked 105th, it seems to me that their posts are not worth taking the time to follow anymore as SNX is clearly far superior to them. Sucks for everyone else that they will be posting like this for a few months, but doesn't bother me lol. Edited February 10, 2016 by Immortan Junka Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Hitchcock Posted February 11, 2016 Report Share Posted February 11, 2016 This is certainly true for my part, but now that I look at the stats and see both Limitless Nexus and Monsters Inc aka "Kashmir" are not even top 120 alliances anymore, and Animalz is ranked 105th, it seems to me that their posts are not worth taking the time to follow anymore as SNX is clearly far superior to them. Sucks for everyone else that they will be posting like this for a few months, but doesn't bother me lol. It doesn't bother us either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devialance Posted February 11, 2016 Report Share Posted February 11, 2016 It doesn't bother us either. Please, tell us more Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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