Producers vs Parasites 2: Types of Nations

[partymaster]

I came for the colorful pictures and cuba's reply. This thread needs more random tangents and Kitty, how is that UPN slurpee? Starfox, MV is stranger than I am. O.o (think that covers the important parts)

[Daenerys Targaryen]

 

In general I agree with your posts Azaghul, but I'm going to have to disagree with you here.

 

We been openly at war with the world's top tier since out inception in October of 2013.  Both TDO and GOP's upper tier had NS advantages over our nations at this point in time (including tech).  Then we began to systematically dismantle the remaining top tier nations in our range which was our goal from the beginning.  Regardless of whether or not they were larger or smaller than us, we targeted all the nations we could.

 

We then hit Pax Corvus who possessed 3 nations in the top #25 and their number 1 nation coming in at #7 which was significantly higher than a majority of DBDC at the time.  Ya'll can talk as much !@#$ as we want, but we've never been afraid to fight nations bigger than ours.  It's not our fault that a 100-something nations between then and now bowed out without a fight.  Those stats came easy so we don't care about losing them.

 

And before I get reply about DBDC not taking fair fights or not hitting allies 1) I'm here to win 2) You all had your chance a year ago.  It's not our fault you were to busy flailing around with your dicks in the mud.

 

edit: Also I'd like to add we signed our NAP with IRON because it was specifically the opposite of what TOP wanted or expected

But IRON said you only signed the NAP so they wouldn't have to destroy your nations. :huh:

 

I'll have to agree with Artigo on the fact that most alliances with top tier nations were too !@#$% to fight back even a year ago. I watched as I would wager 80+% sat back and did nothing for the couple of days to a week long raid/war took place. Why? They did not want to lose their stats. What is sad is that there was no forethought to the fact that they would simply be hit time and again (and this happened several times) so if they had just fought back in the first place, DBDC would not be as large as they are now. 

 

I honestly don't think DBDC is frightened of much. They are smart and why not wait until they have a couple more nations over 70k tech before they take on the likes of Dulra. Cuba has already fought Dulra at least once so it is bound to happen again. Currently, we are watching the same failure that we watched over the past year. GPA is getting hit by a single DBDC nation and instead of all 4 fighting back and adding on 3 more on top of that, GPA is sitting back and taking it. It is rather sad.

I'm not even sure if GPA even remember where the "Declare War" option is. Maybe that's the reason they haven't countered yet.

[Azaghul]

It's beyond stupid to say that any alliance willingly takes actions which directly hurt their cause in the long run or the short run.

Every alliance that enters into a loosing war hurts it's short and long term statistical position.  And every alliance that heavily engages even in a winning war.

[Daenerys Targaryen]

DBDC trying to sound like they are the brave and all conquering warriors of CN. I think they forgot that none of that would be possible without the help of many other alliances. And who exactly has opposed them? No one has ever opposed DBDC, they've been the aggressors the entire time. All those with the power to oppose and defeat DBDC are backing them so they can't lose until some of those ties are cut and it'll have to be most of them which isn;t going to happen. I like how their leader says " defeating any who oppose us". I guess those backing them better stay backing them or you'll be next. :facepalm:

[Azaghul]

I'll have to agree with Artigo on the fact that most alliances with top tier nations were too !@#$% to fight back even a year ago. I watched as I would wager 80+% sat back and did nothing for the couple of days to a week long raid/war took place. Why? They did not want to lose their stats. What is sad is that there was no forethought to the fact that they would simply be hit time and again (and this happened several times) so if they had just fought back in the first place, DBDC would not be as large as they are now. 

That was definitely pathetic.  Even if you can't win you should do the best you can to damage your enemy.

[CubaQuerida]

Every alliance that enters into a loosing war hurts it's short and long term statistical position.  And every alliance that heavily engages even in a winning war.

That's not true.  The fallout from inaction is far worse than losing stats in a war where you are at least fighting for ideals.  A wise man once said "Even if you can't win you should do the best you can to damage your enemy".  

 

DBDC trying to sound like they are the brave and all conquering warriors of CN. I think they forgot that none of that would be possible without the help of many other alliances. And who exactly has opposed them? No one has ever opposed DBDC, they've been the aggressors the entire time. All those with the power to oppose and defeat DBDC are backing them so they can't lose until some of those ties are cut and it'll have to be most of them which isn;t going to happen. I like how their leader says " defeating any who oppose us". I guess those backing them better stay backing them or you'll be next. :facepalm:

I was speaking philosophically regarding opposition.  Obviously those who physically oppose us are handled with brute force and usually an overwhelming amount.  

[Daenerys Targaryen]

I think there are far too many examples ITT of over-simplifying the intricate nature of CN politics. It's doing a terrible disservice to the strong willed individuals at IRON and DBDC who were able to circumvent an entire war cycle in the name of a better, lasting agreement.

It's beyond stupid to say that any alliance willingly takes actions which directly hurt their cause in the long run or the short run. Everyone wants to survive and thrive and be surrounded by friends and good people. It's just coming off extremely petty and bitter to attack the actions of any alliance for doing what's in their best interest, both short and long term.

If you think the actions of DBDC or iron are motivated by fear or cowardice, then you have not spent enough time in a leadership position, or your time was wasted pursuing goals that didn't pan out.

Why have we not attacked WTF/GPA? That's our problem, not yours. None of us got to this position by following public sentiment and treaty web politics, we rejected that construct and replaced it with our own version that suits our interests better.

The only reason we are still alive and capable of enforcing this radical movement is that we are the most capable of defending ourselves and defeating any who oppose us, both diplomatically and militarily.

But by all means, continue to speak more about strategies you don't comprehend and about nations you don't control and about the way you think we should all interact.

I wouldn't even consider attacking WTF/GPA a problem, that sounds more like a solution to me. :) If you're really the brave and all conquering heroes you claim to be, prove it then big shot!

[Daenerys Targaryen]

That was definitely pathetic.  Even if you can't win you should do the best you can to damage your enemy.

I think you all might be overestimating the capabilities of those DBDC have previously fought, on a government and individual level. You had it right the first time, they pick fights where they overpower their opponents so much that they pose no serious risk to their stats.

 

Also, you can't count neutrals as opponents. They don't even know where the "Declare War" button is.

Edited January 2, 2015 by Daenerys Targaryen

[Azaghul]

That's not true.  The fallout from inaction is far worse than losing stats in a war where you are at least fighting for ideals.  A wise man once said "Even if you can't win you should do the best you can to damage your enemy".  

 

The political fallout from inaction may be harsh, but I was talking about the statistical fallout.  Though I'll concede that you could say the political fallout might lead to a worse statistical one down the road.  But even with that there are plenty of cases where alliances could have gotten away politically with not entering onto a losing side but did it anyway, or engaged a lot more than they needed (winning or loosing) to avoid negative attention.  For their self pride, as a sacrifice to help their friends, to satisfy a grudge, or even because they just like to war and don't care that much about their stats.

 

I think you all might be overestimating the capabilities of those DBDC have previously fought, on a government and individual level. You had it right the first time, they pick fights where they overpower their opponents so much that they pose no serious risk to their stats.

 

Also, you can't count neutrals as opponents. They don't even know where the "Declare War" button is.

They wouldn't have been able to do a huge amount of damage, but they could at least have kept it from being profitable and done some damage.

Edited January 2, 2015 by Azaghul

[Rayvon]

I'm not even sure if GPA even remember where the "Declare War" option is. Maybe that's the reason they haven't countered yet.

 
 

Also, you can't count neutrals as opponents. They don't even know where the "Declare War" button is.

I think you're trying too hard to sound like you know shit.

Afterall, you took some pretty fair beatings from their training team in tourny. That elusive "Declare War" button ......

[Daenerys Targaryen]

The political fallout from inaction may be harsh, but I was talking about the statistical fallout.  Though I'll concede that you could say the political fallout might lead to a worse statistical one down the road.  But even with that there are plenty of cases where alliances could have gotten away politically with not entering onto a losing side but did it anyway, or engaged a lot more than they needed (winning or loosing) to avoid negative attention.  For their self pride, as a sacrifice to help their friends, to satisfy a grudge, or even because they just like to war and don't care that much about their stats.

 

They wouldn't have been able to do a huge amount of damage, but they could at least have kept it from being profitable and done some damage.

True and I think we may be witnessing another repeat of those same in-actions with the GPA. I'm sure everyone has figured out by now that DBDC will use raids to roll your alliance one by one and they even just said it out loud themselves. There are no excuses to not act anymore, its already a full scale war, they'll just use attrition to win. You may as well treat it as such, and this is why most of today's leaders shouldn't even be in any leadership role except for assisting those who will stand up for their own alliance against any and all threats no matter the odds.

[Daenerys Targaryen]

Seriously, can DBDC do everyone a favor and tell your fan boys to just stop already! The same responses are just getting old.

 

At least DBDC are posting reasonable explanations even if they try to ignore anything that may put them in a bad light.

 

 
 

I think you're trying too hard to sound like you know !@#$.

Afterall, you took some pretty fair beatings from their training team in tourny. That elusive "Declare War" button ......

 

Of all the DBDC members, I only remember fighting TBRaiders. I was sitting on +80 mill war chest levels every-time they fought me, they could never beat me when they came knocking. Destroying pixels that were easily replaced is all part of the game plan but you wouldn't know anything about using tactics, but i do remember giving many of your alliance members some good beatings. :smug:

 

I was also calling DBDC out long before they had a round in TE. My first war with them was against TBRiders and Bombuator. Easily one of the most effective and coordinated efforts I've seen even to this day. I even commended them on it.

 

Anyway, this isn't the place for TE discussion.

Edited January 2, 2015 by Daenerys Targaryen

[Nick GhostWolf]

An accurate picture of the OWF in 2014: http://imgur.com/iq0QVT0

 

It's never been that, but hey, I've always had a soft spot for marketing departments so why not?

 

That picture is brilliance incarnate.  I won't ignore Tywin because I find his posts to be amusing, but... thank you.

[Daenerys Targaryen]

I honestly couldn't be any more happier about making the ignore list of all those who only know how to post pointless bias slander. :)

[Rayvon]

The same responses are just getting old.

As you quote my response to your tired old repeated "can't find the "Declare War" button response ... Getting old indeed ..
 
 

Of all the DBDC members, I only remember fighting TBRaiders. I was sitting on +80 mill war chest levels every-time they fought me, they could never beat me when they came knocking. Destroying pixels that were easily replaced is all part of the game plan but you wouldn't know anything about using tactics, but i do remember giving many of your alliance members some good beatings. :smug:
 
I was also calling DBDC out long before they had a round in TE. My first war with them was against TBRiders and Bombuator. Easily one of the most effective and coordinated efforts I've seen even to this day. I even commended them on it.
 
Anyway, this isn't the place for TE discussion.

DBDC =/= GPA
DBDC =/= neutrals

What do your fights with DBDC nations have to do with the fact that you persistently claim GPA and neutrals can not locate the "Declare War" button? Edited January 2, 2015 by Rayvon

[Daenerys Targaryen]

As you quote my response to your tired old repeated "can't find the "Declare War" button response ... Getting old indeed ..
 
 



DBDC =/= GPA
DBDC =/= neutrals

What do your fights with DBDC nations have to do with the fact that you persistently claim GPA and neutrals can not locate the "Declare War" button?

You're not the only one in the DBDC fan boy club, it has quite a large membership.

 

The " you're trying too hard" response is getting very old, probably as old as CN itself.  My response you claim is a old and repeated was first used by me today, just 2 times in total. :facepalm:

 

But obviously you've missed the mostly sarcasm and stab at GPA for not yet countering the DBDC nation currently rolling 4 GPA nations. Why am i not surprised. :facepalm:

[Rayvon]

You're not the only one in the DBDC fan boy club, it has quite a large membership.
 
The " you're trying too hard" response is getting very old, probably as old as CN itself.  My response you claim is a old and repeated was first used by me today, just 2 times in total. :facepalm:
 
But obviously you've missed the mostly sarcasm and stab at GPA for not yet countering the DBDC nation currently rolling 4 GPA nations. Why am i not surprised. :facepalm:

I didn't know I was their fan. News to me. I'm your fan, a much much smaller fan club I realize. But I'm here for you, not them.  :popcorn: 
 
"X can't find the Declare War button" first used by you? You're a trailblazer Tywin.
Althoughhhhhh .... It's actually been used before. [url=http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?/topic/77299-ragnarok-announcement/?p=2071633]Doitzel[/url] beat you to it.
 
You're so 2009.  :v:

Edited January 2, 2015 by Rayvon

[Mister black]

for future refernce refer to last post. 

 

 

 

 

sorry for the inconveince dbdc. sorry for being a dick!

 

and sorry to cuba and bones.

 

 

 

 

0/ doom riech

Edited January 3, 2015 by Mister black

[Rush Sykes]

Azaghul my old friend, I will point out that WHILE your newfound BFFs in NpO were being raided by DBDC, your alliance signed a NAP with them. I dedicated an entire thread last war to pointing out the statistical ability of Platysphere to take down what, at that time, were 13 DBDC nations. The resounding responses from the Centurius' and Dajobos and Chefjoes and Voodoos and Chimaera's of the world were basically "Rush you are the crazy elephant guy, and you just want us to throw away our statistics to take down DBDC because you think it will turn this war around." Your entire sphere chose the path of inaction to deal with DBDC, all the while defending that choice. TOP signed a NAP so they could look at Polar during future raids and say "look bro, we cannot help you, sorry."

 

During the second raid on Polar, DBDC had 1 nation on the AA (it was Caliph) who was JUST outside the top 250. He had 0 backup. Polar could updeclared on him, drug him down and held him a ransom to force a NAP or something similar with DBDC, instead, all the Polar nations he raided, peaced out the raid. DBDC are where they are right now, not due to anything underhanded, but simply due to the fact that Platysphere, when Ardus left this world, had zero backbone, and had 0 leadership that possessed ANY sort of vision. YOu find yourselves neutered now by superior play from DBDC, and you can find the culprits behind this by simply finding a mirror and looking in it.

[Bob Janova]

Wait, alliances really just let their top tier nations get raided and didn't do anything about it? That is beyond dumb, it goes right to the fundamentals of what an alliance is supposed to be about. If you can't protect your members from foreign aggression then are you even an alliance?

[The Warrior]

 

Either way, both are horribly incorrect and especially hilarious comebacks given that you are defending Valhalla. Also hilarious considering you are IRON government...and I'm sure we don't need to touch on how you allied DBDC a week after they raided you.

Shah has not been in IRON government for nearly a year.

 

You're pretty much right though, after peace was reached with the NSO coalition, about a week later, IRON couldn't take the heat fighting DBDC alone and used FEAR to broker a peace.

You are completely clueless about what actually happened.

 

Of course we want you to come to blows with DBDC. 

It's almost as if we both recognized this and made a strategic move to prevent it.

 

The difference between TOP-Polar and IRON-DBDC is that there was an actual (and very bitter) war involved, and more than a week between fighting and allying. You allied DBDC to preserve stats. We allied TOP to eliminate others stats. That's the key difference.

Signing a treaty of any sort, in one way or another, was done to preserve stats to an extent. Whether it was the sole intended purpose for the treaty or not is irrelevant. It is as much of a guarantee that you will not come to blows with that alliance as there exists in this world. Here is the most pertinent excerpt from your own treaty with TOP, the Frozen Hell Accords, that you claim was signed only to "eliminate others stats":

 

III. Non-Aggression

 
No member of either signatory may participate in, support, or condone military action against a member state of another signatory. Breaches of this article by member states shall not terminate the whole agreement, but shall be negotiated and settled by the signatories in an equitable fashion.

 

It means the exact same thing as the NAP clause in our treaty with DBDC. 

 

In any case, why do you get to unilaterally decide why DBDC and IRON signed a treaty? How do you know that we didn't sign with DBDC to "eliminate others stats" as well? The two are not mutually exclusive.

 

The problem with that is...you let TOP be until a coalition was built that had an advantage. You fought alongside them last war. Even then, you still didn't declare on them.

 

Typical IRON

I think you are remembering something incorrectly. TOP declared war on IRON. 

Edited January 2, 2015 by The Warrior

[murtibing]

You are now being paid by SPATR, Mister Black. I advise you to resolve your concerns internally.

[Neo Uruk]

You are now being paid by SPATR, Mister Black. I advise you to resolve your concerns internally.

Are you going to dispute a single thing he said?

Also what is this, GGA? Edited January 2, 2015 by Neo Uruk

[untouchable]

Misterblack need to apologize immediately.
And I'm not sure that's going to save your butt.

[Canik]

just going to throw this out there.

 

Doom finds your lack of faith disturbing..



Your nation seems to be doing well now.

(46 efficiency to my 15 :P)