Why do I even bother ?

[BloodFury]

[quote name='markfrancos' timestamp='1357784626' post='3073524']
my stance has not been at all clear. You will probably still launch the abuse on GPF . I must say that the early topics on this coup were when I believed in mercy. In many ways I still believe in that yet I come from a democratic alliance and accordingly what I think is not always what I personally believe. The membership prefered ZI. You have got to remember that this was all done in the heat of the moment. Also has Bern put those logs down yet. That would clear my alliance's name as of course people on the owf come to conclusions without all of the facts. Understandable. If you happened to know everything it would breach the security measures in place. 95 per cent will not know me and therefore with all due respect should not make mass assumptions that you cannot trust me. When more facts are revealed and all evidence is collected then feel free to comment on me. Until then hold your tongue ;p
[/quote]

You are the leader, you speak for your alliance. You gave mercy. You cannot simply undo what you already had stated to the public. You aren't deserving of reps. When you said nothing would happen, that meant nothing would happen. You were elected to make decisions, you made your decision. Stick to it.

[Ovidsidios]

[quote name='Namayan' timestamp='1357782605' post='3073509']
I find this odd that GPF, particularly markfrancos, did not uphold his word as within his power vested upon the GPF Charter. He pardon all coup plotters as proof [url="http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=114663"]http://forums.cybern...howtopic=114663[/url]

[/quote]

It's funny because that thread proved the complete opposite. Allies can trust that GPF is a complete push over and will heed to the disgruntled cries of the masses. For the coup, I endorse a ZI had that been the original punishment. You fought against the powers that be and you lost.

However, by the sound of things, GPF is going back on its word. And if things clear up to prove as such, I hope our leaders will reconsider the punishment to befall Bernkastel.

Although Bern, you can come off as a dick sometimes.

[markfrancos]

[quote name='Namayan' timestamp='1357782605' post='3073509']
I find this odd that GPF, particularly markfrancos, did not uphold his word as within his power vested upon the GPF Charter. He pardon all coup plotters as proof [url="http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=114663"]http://forums.cybern...howtopic=114663[/url]

After pardoning, suddenly turned his back on his word and posted this.

Due to the new events, How are we going to trust GPF and markfrancos in the future, when GPF can break any promises they make?

How can GPF allies trust GPF, now that GPF broke their word?

These are perfectly valid questions on the GPF alliance.
[/quote]

valid questions Bern brought it upon himself I pardoned him yes . It was not I who started off the whole reps thing. If you look at one of my earlier posts with logs you will see that I was approached on behalf of Bern to pay reps. In reality he should have known to expect them. Otheir collaborators were expecting them. The pardon was from war and destroyal. Yes now it looks like I am going back on my word but when his negotiating representative took back the deal he refused to pay anything. He actually welcomed zi and war even when I tried to negotiate and I hope that Bern will be a man and state that this is true otherwise it will just be revealed in s few hours time when I am back on my pc. And I show the logs.

[Namayan]

[quote name='markfrancos' timestamp='1357785451' post='3073530']
valid questions Bern brought it upon himself I pardoned him yes . It was not I who started off the whole reps thing. If you look at one of my earlier posts with logs you will see that I was approached on behalf of Bern to pay reps. In reality he should have known to expect them. Otheir collaborators were expecting them. The pardon was from war and destroyal. Yes now it looks like I am going back on my word but when his negotiating representative took back the deal he refused to pay anything. He actually welcomed zi and war even when I tried to negotiate and I hope that Bern will be a man and state that this is true otherwise it will just be revealed in s few hours time when I am back on my pc. And I show the logs.
[/quote]


the previous logs tells, the you are the Evil Dictator but your decision would be based on the Triums decision/gov decision. So in a sense, this wasnt your decision but the GPF governments decision.

In short, you are NOT in charge of GPF.

Another problem here is that even if for example, You promise another alliance a new treaty, MDoAP. But, your government disapproves, you cannot do anything about it. But follow your government much like what you did and stated in your logs.

I already respected and had very High regard on GPF during the pardon.

But this all ZI and payments is going like the LOSS-GPF problem last year.

[Bernkastel]

[quote name='markfrancos' timestamp='1357785451' post='3073530']
valid questions Bern brought it upon himself I pardoned him yes . It was not I who started off the whole reps thing. If you look at one of my earlier posts with logs you will see that I was approached on behalf of Bern to pay reps. In reality he should have known to expect them. Otheir collaborators were expecting them. The pardon was from war and destroyal. Yes now it looks like I am going back on my word but when his negotiating representative took back the deal he refused to pay anything. He actually welcomed zi and war even when I tried to negotiate and I hope that Bern will be a man and state that this is true otherwise it will just be revealed in s few hours time when I am back on my pc. And I show the logs.
[/quote]

I had no knowledge of Chax or any BFF gov negotiating without me and letting me know until after the fact. I should have been in the room or they should have waited. When I received the ingame message from Chax about him getting me peace, I was perplexed. I had already been given peace through the pardon you approved. What could it have been about. It's been bugging me ever since. This is my fate on the line and I wasn't consulted with every single detail, big or small. That's why that log comes as such a surprise and immense disappointment. The pardon had no strings attached, period. You don't seem to get that. The argument I made in those IRC logs are the same exact argument I've made here,. The only solution is no reps and no consequences. I'm tempted to add a public apology for not keeping your word.

[Ovidsidios]

[quote name='Namayan' timestamp='1357786099' post='3073532']
In short, you are NOT in charge of GPF.
[/quote]

And if he renegs renegging I'm sure he'll look great before the eyes of all of CN [i]and[/i] his alliance

[xR1 Fatal Instinct]

Mark, double jeopardy is immoral and you should feel bad.

[Ovidsidios]

[quote name='xR1 Fatal Instinct' timestamp='1357787083' post='3073539']
Mark, double jeopardy is immoral and you should feel bad.
[/quote]

And unconstitutional ([i]ipso facto[/i] illegal). Triple threat

[Omniscient1]

Cool BFF is awesome. ZI it is.

[Sigrun Vapneir]

[quote name='Hereno' timestamp='1357775304' post='3073443']
How is it Bernkastel's fault that the leadership of GPF is incompetent? No wonder he tried to coup them if they actually think that renegging on a finished deal because they hadn't even bothered to ask their members what they thought first was the best way to handle this.
[/quote]

Looks like a string of incompetence all the way around, yeah, and makes it easier to imagine how a coup could have seemed like a good idea for sure. Markfrancos issued a clear, public pardon - then turns around hours later demanding reps. And then posting rambling nonsensical stuff like this:

[quote name='markfrancos' timestamp='1357784626' post='3073524']
my stance has not been at all clear. You will probably still launch the abuse on GPF . I must say that the early topics on this coup were when I believed in mercy. In many ways I still believe in that yet I come from a democratic alliance and accordingly what I think is not always what I personally believe. The membership prefered ZI. You have got to remember that this was all done in the heat of the moment. Also has Bern put those logs down yet. That would clear my alliance's name as of course people on the owf come to conclusions without all of the facts. Understandable. If you happened to know everything it would breach the security measures in place. 95 per cent will not know me and therefore with all due respect should not make mass assumptions that you cannot trust me. When more facts are revealed and all evidence is collected then feel free to comment on me. Until then hold your tongue ;p
[/quote]

So you believe in mercy, you made decisions, your members complained, you changed your beliefs, and want to take back your word. Horse has left the gate. Either your word is your bond or it isnt. And obviously it isnt. Your display of fecklessness did a lot more damage to you here than anything Bernkastel has done. I dont doubt you can justify the demands you made based on his actions, and in normal circumstances simply paying the 15 mil would have been the right thing for him to do anyway, but just seeing you in action in this thread has made it very easy for me to imagine why he would decide not do so.

[WarriorConcept]

Glad to see this one get settled.

[DevastationStation]

After reading this thread in it's entirety (unfortunately) I have come to the following conclusion: Everybody fails - this includes myself for reading this thread.

Edited January 10, 2013 by DevastationStation

[keeology]

[quote name='DevastationStation' timestamp='1357795596' post='3073611']
After reading this thread in it's entirety (unfortunately) I have come to the following conclusion: Everybody fails - this includes myself for reading this thread.
[/quote]

i'm with you

[Wu Tang Clan]

Free Bernkastel!

[KainIIIC]

not sad to see at all.

[nishiyoshi]

Timeline of events:

Coup!
Support for the former Govt.
Coup leader states, "Just for lolz! Will be stepping down soon. Glad GPF got message about being more Democracy-based, etc."
Former Govt. reinstated, former leader offers pardon; rest of the world is "WTF those fools should burn", but holds tongue since it's GPF's business.
Coup leader applauds getting 15 seconds of fame, while not taking a scratch, but gives warning about retribution (???).
GPF implements democracy-based actions by recognizing members asking for an appeal of the original pardon.
BFF comes in wanting to help since they are harboring Coup member.
GPF member appeal overturns Mark's original decision.
ZI is the verdict since BFF negotiated deal is rejected.
Martyr is born.

The irony lies within the purpose of the coup being the reason for the coup member getting justice, albeit delayed a bit and not as straightforward as the process could have been.

I believe that MHA will assist GPF with this matter if asked upon.

[markfrancos]

[quote name='nishiyoshi' timestamp='1357805694' post='3073746']
Timeline of events:

Coup!
Support for the former Govt.
Coup leader states, "Just for lolz! Will be stepping down soon. Glad GPF got message about being more Democracy-based, etc."
Former Govt. reinstated, former leader offers pardon; rest of the world is "WTF those fools should burn", but holds tongue since it's GPF's business.
Coup leader applauds getting 15 seconds of fame, while not taking a scratch, but gives warning about retribution (???).
GPF implements democracy-based actions by recognizing members asking for an appeal of the original pardon.
BFF comes in wanting to help since they are harboring Coup member.
GPF member appeal overturns Mark's original decision.
ZI is the verdict since BFF negotiated deal is rejected.
Martyr is born.

The irony lies within the purpose of the coup being the reason for the coup member getting justice, albeit delayed a bit and not as straightforward as the process could have been.

I believe that MHA will assist GPF with this matter if asked upon.
[/quote]

Your right yeah everyone just look at this Sums it up perfectly.

Edited January 10, 2013 by markfrancos

[markfrancos]

double post

Edited January 10, 2013 by markfrancos

[markfrancos]

Well, GPF has always been for its members. Not some elite sect who thinks they are the owners. I am a mere representation of the people. Their word collectively is law.

Edited January 10, 2013 by markfrancos

[Namayan]

[quote name='markfrancos' timestamp='1357806723' post='3073756']
Well, GPF has always been for its members. Not some elite sect who thinks they are the owners. I am a mere representation of the people. Their word collectively is law.
[/quote]

GPF is really bad with the law/treaty interpretation. There is nothing that says the your members can overrule you except the triumvirates. If you are going to make an excuse or lie about it, at least make it right. At least your excuse was, the triumvirate decided to overrule me on my decision on my pardon.

Right now, the issue is currently GPF is word is nothing nor can be trusted

Let me point a situation.

Argent/PPO/MHA requests for military aid. You, as a representative, or as stated in your charter " the supreme authority on all issues in the GPF", However, your membership have decided not to help them. Then, all your promises, you as Secretary General, representative of GPF, goes down drain and becomes simply because your membership said so.

It is the same on the situation now. Your actions, or GPF actions being Secretary General as the representative, have shown that everything you post officially is not official.

But hey, this is GPF rule interpretation 101 much like back in the Dave war when you can enter an aggressive war with a PIAT. Hey, maybe next time you can declare using your NAP or declare yourself absolute ruler even you have no control of your government.

[LegendoftheSkies]

This is an outrage. Coup BFF.

[Sigrun Vapneir]

[quote name='markfrancos' timestamp='1357806723' post='3073756']
Well, GPF has always been for its members. Not some elite sect who thinks they are the owners. I am a mere representation of the people. Their word collectively is law.
[/quote]

Hello LSF.

[Bernkastel]

[quote name='nishiyoshi' timestamp='1357805694' post='3073746']
Timeline of events:
Coup leader states, "Just for lolz! Will be stepping down soon. Glad GPF got message about being more Democracy-based, etc."
Coup leader applauds getting 15 seconds of fame, while not taking a scratch, but gives warning about retribution (???).
[/quote]

These two events couldn't be interpreted more wrong. You and the rest of the world are under the assumption I am the so called coup leader. I am not. The coup leader is the one who posted the official announcement and he is getting away with it all. He was planning to do this the moment they gave him the okay to fix the awards system on the forums but it just so happened I got to work on my military reforms first. The reason for the coup was that GPF gov was never active and decisions could never be made. They had outdated member lists, weak warchest requirements and that's just scratching the surface on the IA/Mil problems. I just wanted to make a few small changes for GPF's better and nobody could get anywhere because nobody was on anywhere.

As a co-conspirator (I don't deny my involvement) to this insanely amateurish coup, I did it for the LOLs. That's why I didn't ban anyone (and some did want me to ban former gov) except give Chaos a timeout and why I didn't make a fuss about handing everything back over (I even played Ronjoy's little game). I guess peaceful resolutions are a waste of time. But hey, Mark and GPF can't get the real person behind the amateur coup so they have to settle for another guy. My 15 seconds of fame have come and gone long ago and it wasn't wasted on this silly stuff. I never at any point threatened retribution, it would have been counterproductive to my walking away without a fight and I wasn't seek a fight or retribution ever. I was granted a pardon and I walked away without any sort of fight. That's just the simple fact. But hey, being allied to GPF you don't care about what I say. I'm just talking to a brick wall.

Edited January 10, 2013 by Bernkastel

[Tiberius]

Unless your a fellow member or ally we particularly don't care of your opinion on our business.

To Bern: Irule is in peace mode and deleting hence why we aren't hitting him too. Also don't try and play all innocent not only did you coup you sent orders for our members to attack an ally. Joke coup or not you disrespected the choice of the members.

[Bernkastel]

[quote name='Cress' timestamp='1357836459' post='3073944']
Unless your a fellow member or ally we particularly don't care of your opinion on our business.

To Bern: Irule is in peace mode and deleting hence why we aren't hitting him too. Also don't try and play all innocent not only did you coup you sent orders for our members to attack an ally. Joke coup or not you disrespected the choice of the members.
[/quote]

I wasn't aware the opinion of maybe ten people (might be a slight overestimate) out of sixty something people constituted the opinion of the alliance. I don't think 1/6th of the alliance constitutes an opinion of the entire alliance. Entire ACTIVE alliance maybe but not the entire alliance. And the members have disrespected Mark's opinions and wishes enough to go back on his word. I think GPF needs to seriously look at how completely incompetent and ineffective its government is. It's just becoming more apparently by each day that passes.