IYIyTh Posted January 17, 2013 Report Share Posted January 17, 2013 [quote name='Masterof9puppets' timestamp='1358444961' post='3078043'] Not at all, it was 100% planned. Blood in, blood out. Bibo has been signed for [i]years[/i]. [/quote] Yeah, he already said that here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D34th Posted January 17, 2013 Report Share Posted January 17, 2013 Support a rogue looks like a perfect CB for me, what are guys waiting for? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nobuna Posted January 17, 2013 Report Share Posted January 17, 2013 Yawn~ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shirunei Posted January 17, 2013 Report Share Posted January 17, 2013 [quote name='Nobuna' timestamp='1358455594' post='3078106'] Yawn~ [/quote] Would you care to expand upon that or are you as content less as you would have me believe? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Masterof9puppets Posted January 17, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 17, 2013 [quote name='D34th' timestamp='1358451310' post='3078076'] Support a rogue looks like a perfect CB for me, what are guys waiting for? [/quote] Yes, it is. Have at it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nobuna Posted January 17, 2013 Report Share Posted January 17, 2013 [quote name='shirunei' timestamp='1358456222' post='3078112'] Would you care to expand upon that or are you as content less as you would have me believe? [/quote] Yawn~ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Il Impero Romano Posted January 17, 2013 Report Share Posted January 17, 2013 [quote name='ChairmanHal' timestamp='1358448808' post='3078061'] Given the amount of hand holding Umbrella is doing with you right now, I'm sure you'll be fine. [/quote] [quote] Ptolopskan The Land of Lusitans 1/15/2013 9:07:22 PM Direct Hit [/quote] Yea man, hand holding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D34th Posted January 17, 2013 Report Share Posted January 17, 2013 I see the backpedaling already started. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloin Posted January 17, 2013 Report Share Posted January 17, 2013 (edited) Those Umbrella scoundrals sending free nukes to MoP! This cannot be tolerated! Edit: Seriously if there's this many tears over one member of Umb's firepower, I can't wait to see to see people actually find their big boy pants and actually fight Umb. Edited January 17, 2013 by Gloin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IYIyTh Posted January 17, 2013 Report Share Posted January 17, 2013 You must think you're clever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amossio Posted January 17, 2013 Report Share Posted January 17, 2013 [quote name='D34th' timestamp='1358451310' post='3078076'] Support a rogue looks like a perfect CB for me, what are guys waiting for? [/quote] Uh is nuking rogues a new form of AID/support these days? still love ya d34th Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Owned-You Posted January 17, 2013 Report Share Posted January 17, 2013 [quote name='Amossio' timestamp='1358460390' post='3078172'] Uh is nuking rogues a new form of AID/support these days? still love ya d34th [/quote]It would seem so... perhaps they've mistaken the green aura surrounding Mo9's nation for the money bombs you drop on GOONS instead of the nukes that go boom? Haha! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KenMorningstar Posted January 17, 2013 Report Share Posted January 17, 2013 [quote name='Owned-You' timestamp='1358461463' post='3078184'] It would seem so... perhaps they've mistaken the green aura surrounding Mo9's nation for the money bombs you drop on GOONS instead of the nukes that go boom? Haha! [/quote] Man I do love me some Umbrella money bombs. Soooo tasty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roadie Posted January 17, 2013 Report Share Posted January 17, 2013 I don't think the issue here is how much damage Umbrella is or isn't doing (I'd presume they're doing a lot; I'm sure they're excited to get a chance at what is for them a rare chance to fight). The issue here, so far as I can tell, is that Umbrella policy is at odds with norms. Norms dictate that a rogue's defensive slots are the property of the rogued on alliance and Umbrella policy does not supersede the rights of other alliances. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Umar ibn Abd al-Aziz Posted January 17, 2013 Report Share Posted January 17, 2013 [quote name='Roadie' timestamp='1358462152' post='3078199'] I don't think the issue here is how much damage Umbrella is or isn't doing (I'd presume they're doing a lot; I'm sure they're excited to get a chance at what is for them a rare chance to fight). The issue here, so far as I can tell, is that Umbrella policy is at odds with norms. Norms dictate that a rogue's defensive slots are the property of the rogued on alliance and Umbrella policy does not supersede the rights of other alliances. [/quote] I've seen them do BIBO on people leaving their alliance many many times, as I'm sure all the rest of you have in the past. It [b]is[/b] the norm for them. Personally, I don't really get it, but whatever - either way, you sign up for it when you become a member of Umbrella, so it certainly should be expected when someone leaves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roadie Posted January 17, 2013 Report Share Posted January 17, 2013 (edited) [quote name='Umar ibn Abd al-Aziz' timestamp='1358463247' post='3078206'] I've seen them do BIBO on people leaving their alliance many many times, as I'm sure all the rest of you have in the past. It [b]is[/b] the norm for them. Personally, I don't really get it, but whatever - either way, you sign up for it when you become a member of Umbrella, so it certainly should be expected when someone leaves. [/quote] It absolutely should be expected by the person who leaves, but in no way should be forced upon the alliance that person rogued on. The problem isn't that they are attacking a former member. The problem is that they are infringing on the sovereignty of another alliance by forcing their own policy onto AI. Edited January 17, 2013 by Roadie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Umar ibn Abd al-Aziz Posted January 17, 2013 Report Share Posted January 17, 2013 [quote name='Roadie' timestamp='1358463483' post='3078212'] It absolutely should be expected by the person who leaves, but in no way should be forced upon the alliance that person rogued on. The problem isn't that they are attacking a former member. The problem is that they are infringing on the sovereignty of another alliance by forcing their own policy onto AI. [/quote] How so? I don't see it as an infringement of AI's sovereignty to be honest, simply because they're nuking the !@#$ outta him like they've done with plenty of other ex-members, whether they've rogued on other alliances or are just leaving for another alliance. It's never been an issue before, so I don't honestly understand why it's become one now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roadie Posted January 17, 2013 Report Share Posted January 17, 2013 It infringes on Ai sovereignty because those slots belong to AI, not Umbrella. Umbrella are taking what belongs to AI and making matters worse in the process by coordinating to do so in a manner that makes that nation all but impossible to stagger. That nobody ever had an issue with it before was probably because people were happy to have Umbrella do their dirty work and/or because everyone was afraid of Umbrellas seventyleven million tech. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
berbers Posted January 17, 2013 Report Share Posted January 17, 2013 So if I go rogue on GOONS, you are perfectly ok with my alliance mates blowing a stagger and taking my defensive slots? I'm tucking that tidbit away for potential use in the future Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Umar ibn Abd al-Aziz Posted January 17, 2013 Report Share Posted January 17, 2013 (edited) [quote name='Roadie' timestamp='1358464147' post='3078221'] It infringes on Ai sovereignty because those slots belong to AI, not Umbrella. Umbrella are taking what belongs to AI and making matters worse in the process by coordinating to do so in a manner that makes that nation all but impossible to stagger.[/quote] Well, I'd posit that those slots belong to Umbrella, not AI, at least for the round of wars that they need to do their blood in blood out thing. Did AI let Umbrella know that they had a problem with the whole BIBO thing? Was there any communication about this? [quote name='Roadie' timestamp='1358464147' post='3078221']That nobody ever had an issue with it before was probably because people were happy to have Umbrella do their dirty work and/or because everyone was afraid of Umbrellas seventyleven million tech.[/quote] Hmm, I dunno. In the case of people going to other alliances (as opposed to rogue-ing - is that actually a word?), I'm sure it'd be better to have a non-cratered nation than one that's gone through BIBO? Regardless of motives however, the norm up until this point has not been what you claim it to be, at least in relation to these types of circumstances. e: [quote name='berbers' timestamp='1358464241' post='3078224'] So if I go rogue on GOONS, you are perfectly ok with my alliance mates blowing a stagger and taking my defensive slots? [/quote] We welcome rogues of all shapes and descriptions as I'm sure you're well aware Humour aside, I'm sure we would give consideration to a long-established NATO policy similar to this BIBO thing, if such a thing actually existed and within reason of course. That's what inter-alliance diplomacy is about after all. Edited January 17, 2013 by Umar ibn Abd al-Aziz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Groucho Marx Posted January 17, 2013 Report Share Posted January 17, 2013 [quote name='Roadie' timestamp='1358464147' post='3078221'] It infringes on Ai sovereignty because those slots belong to AI, not Umbrella. Umbrella are taking what belongs to AI and making matters worse in the process by coordinating to do so in a manner that makes that nation all but impossible to stagger. That nobody ever had an issue with it before was probably because people were happy to have Umbrella do their dirty work and/or because everyone was afraid of Umbrellas seventyleven million tech. [/quote] It's a problem for Umbrella to use their "seventyleven million" tech advantage on a rogue from their own alliance? [quote name='berbers' timestamp='1358464241' post='3078224'] So if I go rogue on GOONS, you are perfectly ok with my alliance mates blowing a stagger and taking my defensive slots? I'm tucking that tidbit away for potential use in the future [/quote] Are you implying that NATO is just as militarily capable and robust as Umbrella? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
berbers Posted January 17, 2013 Report Share Posted January 17, 2013 [quote name='Emperor Marx' timestamp='1358465262' post='3078238'] Are you implying that NATO is just as militarily capable and robust as Umbrella? [/quote] Now where did I imply that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
berbers Posted January 17, 2013 Report Share Posted January 17, 2013 [quote name='Umar ibn Abd al-Aziz' timestamp='1358464892' post='3078232'] Humour aside, I'm sure we would give consideration to a long-established NATO policy similar to this BIBO thing, if such a thing actually existed and within reason of course. That's what inter-alliance diplomacy is about after all. [/quote] That is true, GOONS has always been known for it's reasonable diplomatic stances. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Masterof9puppets Posted January 18, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 18, 2013 (edited) [quote name='Roadie' timestamp='1358462152' post='3078199'] I don't think the issue here is how much damage Umbrella is or isn't doing (I'd presume they're doing a lot; I'm sure they're excited to get a chance at what is for them a rare chance to fight). The issue here, so far as I can tell, is that Umbrella policy is at odds with norms. Norms dictate that a rogue's defensive slots are the property of the rogued on alliance and Umbrella policy does not supersede the rights of other alliances. [/quote] [quote name='Roadie' timestamp='1358463483' post='3078212'] It absolutely should be expected by the person who leaves, but in no way should be forced upon the alliance that person rogued on. The problem isn't that they are attacking a former member. The problem is that they are infringing on the sovereignty of another alliance by forcing their own policy onto AI. [/quote] Umbrella is not doing a lot of damage, no nation that I'm at war with right now can really do much damage against me atm due to the massive tech, infra, and land advantages that I gained due to blowing 4.5 bil on rebuying the three previously mentioned materials after all wars were declared. It's a strategy that I've taken advantage of in the past. The issue here is therefore not the lack of damage, but that Umbrella does not care at all about AI's feelings on the matter. This should be clear, and we [i]really[/i] do not need to rehash the pros and cons of my slots being filled. There has already been an extensive argument on the subject a few pages back. It is absolutely detrimental to AI that my slots are not filled by them, [b]that is the point[/b], and there is nothing else to argue. Edited January 18, 2013 by Masterof9puppets Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Apocalypse Posted January 18, 2013 Report Share Posted January 18, 2013 (edited) BIBO has been a looong standing thing and it can in no way be construed as a form of support. Eating 6 umb-nukes isn't beneficial to anyone's health. Edited January 18, 2013 by Johnny Apocalypse Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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