Accountability

[Ardus]

[quote name='flak attack' timestamp='1349643692' post='3038326']
Evil, evil MK. Letting Hoo and Kait delete of their own accord. Surely a crime worthy of the highest punishment.
[/quote]

Goddamnit, get the hell out of this thread.

[trimm]

In all seriousness, every time anyone stands up and tries to portray what when down with Hoo/Kait as anything other than a monumental travesty, they insult every single person on Bob and spit in the face of the very concept of accountability.

[D34th]

MK being MK, how surprising.

[Starfox101]

[quote name='potato' timestamp='1349649198' post='3038384']
What's the point? I already explained my point of view many many times to many many people. Anyone who knows me enough knows I wouldn't participate in what you guys think went down. I'm not saying we were shining beacons of perfection (far from it, in fact), I'm saying it isn't as black and white as our opponents would like to paint it.

Plus, this whole evil/jerk/whatever thing goes well with my robes so I much prefer keeping it that way. It gives more fuel to the opposition and it'll hopefully help them gather competence in one way or another.
[/quote]
I've never personally heard your point of view. Regardless of whether you wouldn't participate in it, you enabled it and continue to do so by serving MK. Don't play high moralist here, you simply can't do that while flying MK colors. You are all stained because you did nothing. (I don't want to hear of any vaunted MK interior punishment either.) You also don't need to mention that you aren't a shining beacon of perfection, because we know. Nor can you call it your enemies painting it "black and white", because when I came back I was generally Pro-MK, and historically was. Once I heard of what had gone down while I was gone, things changed. It is literally disgusting and will one day be punished.

The fact that in your final sentence you make a snide comment of how you're glad it happened because it'll fuel the fire of the opposition, only shows what your true colors are.

Just as bad as the rest of them. Take all your asses back to 4chan.

[quote name='Unknown Smurf' timestamp='1349654545' post='3038443']
Potato hints at what I want to say below, but I think it's more that some members of MK are more "out of line" (from a "moralists" perspective) than others. A lot of them aren't government as their govt, and OsRavan, likes to point out repeatedly. You can't really hold their govt accountable, can you?
[/quote]
Are you serious? The non-government excuse has never worked and never will. A government that enables their membership to act like clowns is a failed government.

Edited October 8, 2012 by Starfox101

[Ardus]

[quote name='Starfox101' timestamp='1349669810' post='3038505']
I've never personally heard your point of view. Regardless of whether you wouldn't participate in it, you enabled it and continue to do so by serving MK. Don't play high moralist here, you simply can't do that while flying MK colors. You are all stained because you did nothing....
[/quote]
This belief is inaccurate and stains the remainder of the post.

However, neither I, nor anybody else (God willing), will attempt to discuss the matter here. It was made clear at the time that discussion of certain aspects of the event, and in some respects the event itself, are taboo. I will not attempt to navigate the invisible strings here.

I attempted to give a fuller account of the matter to HoT55 over on the United Equestria forums some time ago. If you can acquire his permission, I'll reproduce our exchange privately elsewhere.

Edited October 8, 2012 by Ardus

[Starfox101]

[quote name='Ardus' timestamp='1349670445' post='3038506']
This belief is inaccurate and stains the remainder of the post.

However, neither I, nor anybody else (God willing), will attempt to discuss the matter here. It was made clear at the time that discussion of certain aspects of the event, and in some respects the event itself, are taboo. I will not attempt to navigate the invisible strings here.

I attempted to give a fuller account of the matter to HoT55 over on the United Equestria forums some time ago. If you can acquire his permission, I'll reproduce our exchange privately elsewhere.
[/quote]
The fact that you all continually dodge it only lends credence to the issue. It may be taboo because you want it to be, but it shouldn't be. You've walked away unpunished and want it all brushed under the rug.

Who are you kidding here?

[Ardus]

[quote name='Starfox101' timestamp='1349671383' post='3038513']
The fact that you all continually dodge it only lends credence to the issue. It may be taboo because you want it to be, but it shouldn't be. You've walked away unpunished and want it all brushed under the rug.

Who are you kidding here?
[/quote]

You're being purposefully obtuse. Slews of Shrooms and others got slammed formally by the gods of this here place before and I sure as sugar ain't going to risk it again.

[Starfox101]

[quote name='Ardus' timestamp='1349672498' post='3038514']
You're being purposefully obtuse. Slews of Shrooms and others got slammed formally by the gods of this here place before and I sure as sugar ain't going to risk it again.
[/quote]
I'm being purposefully obtuse?

After this comment...

[quote name='flak attack' timestamp='1349643692' post='3038326']
Evil, evil MK. Letting Hoo and Kait delete of their own accord. Surely a crime worthy of the highest punishment.
[/quote]

...I don't think that can ever be said by an MKer again.

Edited October 8, 2012 by Starfox101

[killjoy123]

Im just going to watch. MUCH funnier that way:popcorn:

[killjoy123]

[Sniper Joe]

Unknown Smurf for King Toady 2012

[IYIyTh]

i would much rather discuss our alliances horrible actions in private. - ardus

[potato]

[quote name='Starfox101' timestamp='1349669810' post='3038505']
I've never personally heard your point of view. Regardless of whether you wouldn't participate in it, you enabled it and continue to do so by serving MK. Don't play high moralist here, you simply can't do that while flying MK colors. You are all stained because you did nothing. (I don't want to hear of any vaunted MK interior punishment either.) You also don't need to mention that you aren't a shining beacon of perfection, because we know. Nor can you call it your enemies painting it "black and white", because when I came back I was generally Pro-MK, and historically was. Once I heard of what had gone down while I was gone, things changed. It is literally disgusting and will one day be punished.

The fact that in your final sentence you make a snide comment of how you're glad it happened because it'll fuel the fire of the opposition, only shows what your true colors are.

Just as bad as the rest of them. Take all your asses back to 4chan.
[/quote]

I see. So you weren't there and got second hand facts. And I'm the oblivious one? As I said, things weren't (and still aren't) are perfectly crystal clear as you've been told. If that's not good enough for you, you'll have to deal with it because I don't care enough to correct any of your misconceptions. I said what I had to when it was the time. I remain firm behind what I did then. Do your homework and stop spreading half truthes. Paint us as the root of all evil all you want, I'm fine it. We made mistakes, I admitted it already. And I don't think I ever distanced myself with anything MK did. [b]I[/b] know what it means to remain in an alliance for good or bad.

Also, painting me, of all people in MK, as a 4chan-er is hilarious.

PS: my last line wasn't meant as a snide attack. Apologizes if it hurt anyone's feelings.

[Unknown Smurf]

[quote name='potato' timestamp='1349699419' post='3038562']
I see. So you weren't there and got second hand facts. And I'm the oblivious one? As I said, things weren't (and still aren't) are perfectly crystal clear as you've been told. If that's not good enough for you, you'll have to deal with it because I don't care enough to correct any of your misconceptions. I said what I had to when it was the time. I remain firm behind what I did then. Do your homework and stop spreading half truthes. Paint us as the root of all evil all you want, I'm fine it. We made mistakes, I admitted it already. And I don't think I ever distanced myself with anything MK did. [b]I[/b] know what it means to remain in an alliance for good or bad.

[b]Also, painting me, of all people in MK, as a 4chan-er is hilarious.[/b]

PS: my last line wasn't meant as a snide attack. Apologizes if it hurt anyone's feelings.
[/quote]

I think what he is saying is that by being in MK you allow those people you reference ("of all people in MK") to be like the people from 4chan. So even if you are relatively good, you are facilitating those that have given MK the rep it has now (mostly people that have joined after Karma interestingly).

[Mogar]

[quote name='potato' timestamp='1349699419' post='3038562']
Also, painting me, of all people in MK, as a 4chan-er is hilarious.
[/quote]
because LUE /b/ and SA are all[i] entirely[/i] different communities that dont share similar veins of (typically dark) humor ever.

[Starfox101]

[quote name='potato' timestamp='1349699419' post='3038562']
I see. So you weren't there and got second hand facts. And I'm the oblivious one? As I said, things weren't (and still aren't) are perfectly crystal clear as you've been told. If that's not good enough for you, you'll have to deal with it because I don't care enough to correct any of your misconceptions. I said what I had to when it was the time. I remain firm behind what I did then. Do your homework and stop spreading half truthes. Paint us as the root of all evil all you want, I'm fine it. We made mistakes, I admitted it already. And I don't think I ever distanced myself with anything MK did. [b]I[/b] know what it means to remain in an alliance for good or bad.

Also, painting me, of all people in MK, as a 4chan-er is hilarious.

PS: my last line wasn't meant as a snide attack. Apologizes if it hurt anyone's feelings.
[/quote]
When you get secondhand facts from 20-30 people, all from different places, different sides, you tend to believe it. I'm certainly going to trust neutral parties over someone who has a political position in it. There's remaining in an alliance for good or bad, such as during a beatdown. But staying in after actions such as that has no honor, and you're a fool to try and paint it as such.

Anyway, as Unknown Smurf said, and I said, by staying in MK and supporting them, fighting for them, arguing for them, etc, you are an enabler and supporter of these actions. You've obviously seen no problem with it, because for damn sure, I would have resigned and turned on people for that. Maybe that's just me though, as I expect a certain amount of honor, even morals, among my friends. You can pretend you were appaled with it all you want, and that you are honorable and took the high road, but when I look, you're still in MK. You're guilty by affiliation and for turning a blind eye to it.

Ever hear the quote: "[i]When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall one by one, an unpitied sacrifice in a contemptible struggle."[/i]?

While you may hold a high opinion of your own honor, I don't see it.

Edited October 8, 2012 by Starfox101

[WorldConqueror]

[quote name='Mogar' timestamp='1349718662' post='3038622']
because LUE /b/ and SA are all[i] entirely[/i] different communities that dont share similar veins of (typically dark) humor ever.
[/quote]
One of these things is not like the others,
One of these things just doesn't belong,
Can you tell which thing is not like the others
By the time I finish my song?

[Starfox101]

[quote name='WorldConqueror' timestamp='1349719085' post='3038625']
One of these things is not like the others,
One of these things just doesn't belong,
Can you tell which thing is not like the others
By the time I finish my song?
[/quote]
If you can't, you're not cool on the internet.

[potato]

[quote name='Mogar' timestamp='1349718662' post='3038622']
because LUE /b/ and SA are all[i] entirely[/i] different communities that dont share similar veins of (typically dark) humor ever.
[/quote]

And you'd still be wrong to affiliate me with any of those.

[Ardus]

[quote name='Starfox101' timestamp='1349718709' post='3038623']
When you get secondhand facts from 20-30 people...
[/quote]
And were any of them of the Kingdom? Were any of them those who endeavored to grasp a titanic disaster whole and wrestle it down? Did any of them make an effort to settle what could not be made right? Did a single one have to swim among the clashing tides of fury and righteous indignation pouring forth from countless alliances to bring it to an end? Did any of them risk anything of their own?

I doubt it. You'll find no objection that the incident was an unmitigated travesty, horrible in every aspect from every angle, but I'll be damned if you're going to look down on people who made the choice to stay loyal and try to stabilize it instead of running away to let it surge out of control. In a river of !@#$ I found diamonds and it'll be cold and frosty before I toss out so much good for one really big bad that swept up all of CN in competing, irreconcilable condemnations.

If you want our piece of the puzzle I'll always be open and willing to talk about it elsewhere, but otherwise I'm through with the matter here. If you want to sit on a high horse with a half-baked, inherited opinion from third-parties who had no hand in resolving the matter, that's your choice.

[Starfox101]

[quote name='Ardus' timestamp='1349729282' post='3038692']
And were any of them of the Kingdom? Were any of them those who endeavored to grasp a titanic disaster whole and wrestle it down? Did any of them make an effort to settle what could not be made right? Did a single one have to swim among the clashing tides of fury and righteous indignation pouring forth from countless alliances to bring it to an end? Did any of them risk anything of their own?

I doubt it. You'll find no objection that the incident was an unmitigated travesty, horrible in every aspect from every angle, but I'll be damned if you're going to look down on people who made the choice to stay loyal and try to stabilize it instead of running away to let it surge out of control. In a river of !@#$ I found diamonds and it'll be cold and frosty before I toss out so much good for one really big bad that swept up all of CN in competing, irreconcilable condemnations.

If you want our piece of the puzzle I'll always be open and willing to talk about it elsewhere, but otherwise I'm through with the matter here. If you want to sit on a high horse with a half-baked, inherited opinion from third-parties who had no hand in resolving the matter, that's your choice.
[/quote]
Can we really honestly stop and call it one big bad? MK has a history of things like this and this wasn't the first occurance. Nor will it be the last. When you attract a certain type of person you will reap the rewards that it brings. When you act like a bunch of juvenile school kids, you will attract juvenile school kids.

I'm just altogether curious as to how you concluded that this matter is finished, and resolved. What was the punishment for the guilty? What has changed to prevent it from happening again? You have alot of questions left to answer, don't run from it because it will be a recurring theme here.

I may appear to be on a high horse to you, but that is because you are at the bottom of the river, weighed down by those you sleep with. I am simply on an even scale, calling you out for something that everyone finds disgusting. If you want to shape me as an elitist, then you are merely putting yourself down, because when you are so far below the average, you know you've messed up.

[quote name='potato' timestamp='1349728694' post='3038688']
And you'd still be wrong to affiliate me with any of those.
[/quote]
What is your alliance affiliation again? You honestly can't be this naive. You hold a treaty with SA, while your alliance traces it's roots from LUE, and you've assimilated the 4chan culture. Come again?

Edited October 8, 2012 by Starfox101

[potato]

[quote name='Starfox101' timestamp='1349730106' post='3038698']
What is your alliance affiliation again? You honestly can't be this naive. You hold a treaty with SA, while your alliance traces it's roots from LUE, and you've assimilated the 4chan culture. Come again?
[/quote]

Dilber, for one, has an account on SA. Are you trying to say both NPO and NSO, two alliances Dilber led, are SA alliances? I, as well as most of our members, don't have an account on either of SA, LUE or 4chan. In fact, I, personnally, have never visited either of those, save from the yearly link pasted in our private chan.
MK isn't exactly what you think it is. Deal with it.

[Starfox101]

[quote name='potato' timestamp='1349730939' post='3038707']
Dilber, for one, has an account on SA. Are you trying to say both NPO and NSO, two alliances Dilber led, are SA alliances? I, as well as most of our members, don't have an account on either of SA, LUE or 4chan. In fact, I, personnally, have never visited either of those, save from the yearly link pasted in our private chan.
MK isn't exactly what you think it is. Deal with it.
[/quote]
That's the thing though, Dilber doesn't carry over his SA into this world. Can we say the same for MK? Regardless of whether members hold an account, the culture speaks for itself.

[Mogar]

[quote name='potato' timestamp='1349728694' post='3038688']
And you'd still be wrong to affiliate me with any of those.
[/quote]
your alliance behaves quite similarly to /b/, OOC attacks and harassment appear to be entirely normal behavior from your ilk, you can't sit here and say OH WELL I DONT DO IT PERSONALLY SO ITS FINE, that isn't how it works, if my friend is being a prick to someone, I'll call my friend out on it, not go silent.
[quote name='potato' timestamp='1349730939' post='3038707']
Dilber, for one, has an account on SA. Are you trying to say both NPO and NSO, two alliances Dilber led, are SA alliances? I, as well as most of our members, don't have an account on either of SA, LUE or 4chan. In fact, I, personnally, have never visited either of those, save from the yearly link pasted in our private chan.
MK isn't exactly what you think it is. Deal with it.
[/quote]
Dilber has never broken character, your alliance with few exceptions doesn't even because we have IC.
[quote name='WorldConqueror' timestamp='1349719085' post='3038625']
One of these things is not like the others,
One of these things just doesn't belong,
Can you tell which thing is not like the others
By the time I finish my song?
[/quote]
/rs/ and LUElinks are pretty much the same, and the underlying cultures are incredibly similar, you can continue the holier than thou act though, it's cute.

Edited October 8, 2012 by Mogar

[potato]

[quote name='Mogar' timestamp='1349736098' post='3038740']
your alliance behaves quite similarly to /b/, OOC attacks and harassment appear to be entirely normal behavior from your ilk, you can't sit here and say OH WELL I DONT DO IT PERSONALLY SO ITS FINE, that isn't how it works, if my friend is being a prick to someone, I'll call my friend out on it, not go silent.
[/quote]

I'm glad you have access to my posts on the MK private boards and in our private chan. Maybe you can look them up again and remind me of what I said?