Unknown Smurf Posted September 28, 2012 Report Share Posted September 28, 2012 For the past few years we've seen a lot of accountability lost. Alliances have made promises to other alliances, and then when they realize that promise was inconvenient, they just have that government member "retire." The most recent example of this is when MK (1337 guy) made those promises to Int regarding LSF and did not follow through, then MK told Int that 1337 retired and they don't have to keep his promises. The most well known example of this is when MK canceled all its treaties and said that the guy who canceled them all left right after canceling them all so they couldn't resign treaties with old allies or just call the guy canceling treaties a rogue... Speaking of which how did they not realize he was canceling all their treaties?!? But I digress.. Since when do we have this double standard of alliances not having to account for their past mistakes? Or is it just MK that doesn't have to answer for previous government members? Because we all know NPO has, even though they switched their leader, while MK has been sitting under Archon for a while now... if NPO still had Moo Cows (R.I.P) in charge but different IOs, would we think they were a different alliance? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirWilliam Posted September 28, 2012 Report Share Posted September 28, 2012 (edited) [quote name='Unknown Smurf' timestamp='1348847806' post='3035184'] Since when do we have this double standard of alliances not having to account for their past mistakes? [/quote] I don't intend to speak for MK but I don't imagine they see either of the only examples you provided - their refusal to support LSF or their treaty reboot - as mistakes. edit: LSF, not SWF Edited September 28, 2012 by SirWilliam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlogYou Posted September 28, 2012 Report Share Posted September 28, 2012 [quote name='Unknown Smurf' timestamp='1348847806' post='3035184'] For the past few years we've seen a lot of accountability lost. Alliances have made promises to other alliances, and then when they realize that promise was inconvenient, they just have that government member "retire." The most recent example of this is when MK (1337 guy) made those promises to Int regarding LSF and did not follow through, then MK told Int that 1337 retired and they don't have to keep his promises. The most well known example of this is when MK canceled all its treaties and said that the guy who canceled them all left right after canceling them all so they couldn't resign treaties with old allies or just call the guy canceling treaties a rogue... Speaking of which how did they not realize he was canceling all their treaties?!? But I digress.. Since when do we have this double standard of alliances not having to account for their past mistakes? Or is it just MK that doesn't have to answer for previous government members? Because we all know NPO has, even though they switched their leader, while MK has been sitting under Archon for a while now... if NPO still had Moo Cows (R.I.P) in charge but different IOs, would we think they were a different alliance? [/quote] your thread should be titled "MK are evil, and I no like" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Groucho Marx Posted September 28, 2012 Report Share Posted September 28, 2012 Now wait a minute here. MK is very accountable - I should know, we're their accountabili-buddy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IYIyTh Posted September 28, 2012 Report Share Posted September 28, 2012 [quote name='Emperor Marx' timestamp='1348853574' post='3035231'] Now wait a minute here. MK is very accountable - I should know, we're their accountabili-buddy. [/quote] [font=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][size=2][i][b]That makes you accountabilibuddyable[/b][/i][/size][/font] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bkphysics Posted September 28, 2012 Report Share Posted September 28, 2012 Alliances not having to account for past mistakes is actually pretty rare if you think about. It's just a matter of how long it will take for that to happen. Look at all the times an alliance rolled for past grievances etc (NPO, NpO, GOD, and many more). The one truth to life on planet Bob is any butt-hurt caused by an alliances actions will eventually get paid back as it seems impossible for many of the leaders here to simply move on and not dwell on the past. If you think MK doesn't have to pay for their mistakes, you just haven't waited long enough. Time is coming, wheels are turning, and the cycle of payback never skips a beat when punishment is due. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirWilliam Posted September 28, 2012 Report Share Posted September 28, 2012 (edited) [quote name='bkphysics' timestamp='1348864523' post='3035347'] If you think MK doesn't have to pay for their mistakes, you just haven't waited long enough. [/quote] And that's the thing, one shouldn't expect MK to hold itself accountable for its actions (which the OP seems to imply should be the case) given that they likely doesn't hold reservations about their "mistakes". That's not how it works. It's up to aggrieved or offended parties to. Edited September 28, 2012 by SirWilliam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unknown Smurf Posted September 28, 2012 Author Report Share Posted September 28, 2012 (edited) [quote name='bkphysics' timestamp='1348864523' post='3035347'] Alliances not having to account for past mistakes is actually pretty rare if you think about. It's just a matter of how long it will take for that to happen. Look at all the times an alliance rolled for past grievances etc (NPO, NpO, GOD, and many more). The one truth to life on planet Bob is any butt-hurt caused by an alliances actions will eventually get paid back as it seems impossible for many of the leaders here to simply move on and not dwell on the past. If you think MK doesn't have to pay for their mistakes, you just haven't waited long enough. Time is coming, wheels are turning, and the cycle of payback never skips a beat when punishment is due. [/quote] I don't necessarily mean to pick on MK, the two examples just happened to have them involved. I guess the question I am asking is do you hold the individual in the alliance (government member or other) accountable for what he did or do you hold the alliance? IF you hold the individual responsible and not the alliance, why not the alliance, since they all reaped benefits from in (in most cases). IF you hold the alliance responsible, why do you feel that member(s) of the alliance that joined after should pay? Why don't the members (govt. included) that have left, since the alliance did said action (in the case where reciprocation isn't immediate), have to pay? [quote name='SirWilliam' timestamp='1348867386' post='3035385'] And that's the thing, one shouldn't expect MK to hold itself accountable for its actions (which the OP seems to imply should be the case) given that they likely doesn't hold reservations about their "mistakes". That's not how it works. It's up to aggrieved or offended parties to. [/quote] Well how about in the case where the afflicting party is an ally of an ally of the afflicted? Accountability doesn't necessarily mean an act of war, it could just be a lack of help the next time said alliance tries to do something. That is to say, if an alliance A doesn't like what alliance B did (despite them being allied to each other or in the same sphere), why do they go along with alliance B's future plans/actions? Edited September 28, 2012 by Unknown Smurf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unknown Smurf Posted September 28, 2012 Author Report Share Posted September 28, 2012 (edited) EDIT: Double post sorry, see above. Edited September 28, 2012 by Unknown Smurf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Stuart Posted September 29, 2012 Report Share Posted September 29, 2012 [quote name='Unknown Smurf' timestamp='1348847806' post='3035184'] For the past few years we've seen a lot of accountability lost. Alliances have made promises to other alliances, and then when they realize that promise was inconvenient, they just have that government member "retire." The most recent example of this is when MK (1337 guy) made those promises to Int regarding LSF and did not follow through, then MK told Int that 1337 retired and they don't have to keep his promises. The most well known example of this is when MK canceled all its treaties and said that the guy who canceled them all left right after canceling them all so they couldn't resign treaties with old allies or just call the guy canceling treaties a rogue... Speaking of which how did they not realize he was canceling all their treaties?!? But I digress.. Since when do we have this double standard of alliances not having to account for their past mistakes? Or is it just MK that doesn't have to answer for previous government members? Because we all know NPO has, even though they switched their leader, while MK has been sitting under Archon for a while now... if NPO still had Moo Cows (R.I.P) in charge but different IOs, would we think they were a different alliance? [/quote] People like you damage the cause. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flak attack Posted September 29, 2012 Report Share Posted September 29, 2012 [quote name='Charles Stuart' timestamp='1348888729' post='3035523'] People like you damage the cause. [/quote] You act like the cause doesn't do enough damage to itself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rsoxbronco1 Posted September 29, 2012 Report Share Posted September 29, 2012 As the leader of Athens when MK cancelled treaties, I'm still looking for some accountability too. Maybe some reps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ardus Posted September 29, 2012 Report Share Posted September 29, 2012 [quote name='Unknown Smurf' timestamp='1348847806' post='3035184'] For the past few years we've seen a lot of accountability lost. Alliances have made promises to other alliances, and then when they realize that promise was inconvenient, they just have that government member "retire." The most recent example of this is when MK (1337 guy) made those promises to Int regarding LSF and did not follow through, then MK told Int that 1337 retired and they don't have to keep his promises. The most well known example of this is when MK canceled all its treaties and said that the guy who canceled them all left right after canceling them all so they couldn't resign treaties with old allies or just call the guy canceling treaties a rogue... Speaking of which how did they not realize he was canceling all their treaties?!? But I digress.. Since when do we have this double standard of alliances not having to account for their past mistakes? Or is it just MK that doesn't have to answer for previous government members? Because we all know NPO has, even though they switched their leader, while MK has been sitting under Archon for a while now... if NPO still had Moo Cows (R.I.P) in charge but different IOs, would we think they were a different alliance? [/quote] 1337 retired? Oh sweet, they made me King! My first decree is ice cream for all. On a more serious note, if you think we haven't had to account for Gunnergate with [i]endless[/i] hours of diplomacy you're seriously out of touch and, as the wretched Mr. Stuart suggested, a harm to your own cause. You should sit down and stick to sound bites. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rush Sykes Posted September 29, 2012 Report Share Posted September 29, 2012 [quote name='Charles Stuart' timestamp='1348888729' post='3035523'] People like you damage the cause. [/quote] lol "the cause"....He cant wait till the fine folks at Duckroll fulfill his prophecy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hereno Posted September 29, 2012 Report Share Posted September 29, 2012 I don't understand your complaint here, Smurf. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unknown Smurf Posted September 29, 2012 Author Report Share Posted September 29, 2012 [quote name='Charles Stuart' timestamp='1348888729' post='3035523'] People like you damage the cause. [/quote] I have no desire to help your "cause." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azaghul Posted September 30, 2012 Report Share Posted September 30, 2012 [quote name='Unknown Smurf' timestamp='1348847806' post='3035184'] For the past few years we've seen a lot of accountability lost. Alliances have made promises to other alliances, and then when they realize that promise was inconvenient, they just have that government member "retire." The most recent example of this is when MK (1337 guy) made those promises to Int regarding LSF and did not follow through, then MK told Int that 1337 retired and they don't have to keep his promises. The most well known example of this is when MK canceled all its treaties and said that the guy who canceled them all left right after canceling them all so they couldn't resign treaties with old allies or just call the guy canceling treaties a rogue... Speaking of which how did they not realize he was canceling all their treaties?!? But I digress.. Since when do we have this double standard of alliances not having to account for their past mistakes? Or is it just MK that doesn't have to answer for previous government members? Because we all know NPO has, even though they switched their leader, while MK has been sitting under Archon for a while now... if NPO still had Moo Cows (R.I.P) in charge but different IOs, would we think they were a different alliance? [/quote] Leet isn't gone and your analysis of that situation is wrong in multiple ways. As for cancelling, we've never claimed that other high gov members never knew about it, only blamed Gunner leaving with no plan for the awful execution. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Stuart Posted September 30, 2012 Report Share Posted September 30, 2012 (edited) [quote name='Ardus' timestamp='1348931531' post='3035633'] 1337 retired? Oh sweet, they made me King! My first decree is ice cream for all. On a more serious note, if you think we haven't had to account for Gunnergate with [i]endless[/i] hours of diplomacy you're seriously out of touch and, as the wretched Mr. Stuart suggested, a harm to your own cause. You should sit down and stick to sound bites. [/quote] I don't quite know If I am wretched....Maybe a few others things but the day I become a wretched is when my application to MK is refused Edited September 30, 2012 by Charles Stuart Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Stuart Posted September 30, 2012 Report Share Posted September 30, 2012 [quote name='Rush Sykes' timestamp='1348931717' post='3035635'] lol "the cause"....He cant wait till the fine folks at Duckroll fulfill his prophecy. [/quote] Everything comes to an end eventually and in your case, it can't come quiet soon enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Groucho Marx Posted October 1, 2012 Report Share Posted October 1, 2012 I will die for the cause! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rush Sykes Posted October 1, 2012 Report Share Posted October 1, 2012 [quote name='Emperor Marx' timestamp='1349078206' post='3036213'] I will die for the cause! [/quote] And so you shall. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rush Sykes Posted October 1, 2012 Report Share Posted October 1, 2012 [quote name='Charles Stuart' timestamp='1348980720' post='3035838'] Everything comes to an end eventually and in your case, it can't come quiet soon enough. [/quote] Oh Chucky boy, I realize everything comes to an end. I have been prepared for our fall since the day we ascended. The absolute hilarity and beauty of it is.... the way it has to come to an end. SF (who wanted nothing other than to hold NPO down forever, because "we cannot let NPO get back to power"....now has to lapdog itself out to NPO and friends, in hopes of them taking down MK (and DH-C&G by extension) for them. You dont find utter hilarity in that? Well.. there is more. Sparta... Screaming from the high heavens that Olympus gov faked logs between them 2 wars ago. Now are relying on largely that same gov they accused of faking the logs, to deliver a beatdown of MK-DH-C&G for them. Want more? Sparta completely betrayed and stabbed NPO in the back prior to Karma (they WERE plotting the rolling of NPO wiht us while still bloc'd up with NPO).... and NOW... they need the NPO sphere for the same thing they need AI for. You dont find utter hilarity in that? I sure do. For all of the kicking and screaming, and pointing and shouting of "lapdog" by all of them, they sit there with their ONLY option.. their ONLY option Chucky boy.... to lapdog themselves out to the people they fought so hard to keep down. I, for one,. love it. And I welcome the day it comes to pass. Even in defeat.. Even in defeat Chucky Boy.... We will have owned SF yet again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sephiroth Posted October 1, 2012 Report Share Posted October 1, 2012 I agree with bkphysics you just haven't waited long enough to see them held accountable, everything they do to turn people against them stacks up. It wouldn't surprise if once they do start losing wars, they lose several wars in a row as everyone who has been waiting try getting their shots in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flak attack Posted October 1, 2012 Report Share Posted October 1, 2012 [quote name='Ardus' timestamp='1348931531' post='3035633']\ On a more serious note, if you think we haven't had to account for Gunnergate with [i]endless[/i] hours of diplomacy you're seriously out of touch and, as the wretched Mr. Stuart suggested, a harm to your own cause. You should sit down and stick to sound bites. [/quote] He's just mad because we didn't deem him important enough to engage in diplomacy with. [quote name='Rush Sykes' timestamp='1349124554' post='3036264'] Oh Chucky boy, I realize everything comes to an end. I have been prepared for our fall since the day we ascended. The absolute hilarity and beauty of it is.... the way it has to come to an end. SF (who wanted nothing other than to hold NPO down forever, because "we cannot let NPO get back to power"....now has to lapdog itself out to NPO and friends, in hopes of them taking down MK (and DH-C&G by extension) for them. You dont find utter hilarity in that? Well.. there is more. Sparta... Screaming from the high heavens that Olympus gov faked logs between them 2 wars ago. Now are relying on largely that same gov they accused of faking the logs, to deliver a beatdown of MK-DH-C&G for them. Want more? Sparta completely betrayed and stabbed NPO in the back prior to Karma (they WERE plotting the rolling of NPO wiht us while still bloc'd up with NPO).... and NOW... they need the NPO sphere for the same thing they need AI for. You dont find utter hilarity in that? I sure do. For all of the kicking and screaming, and pointing and shouting of "lapdog" by all of them, they sit there with their ONLY option.. their ONLY option Chucky boy.... to lapdog themselves out to the people they fought so hard to keep down. I, for one,. love it. And I welcome the day it comes to pass. Even in defeat.. Even in defeat Chucky Boy.... We will have owned SF yet again. [/quote] Finish him! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Wally Posted October 1, 2012 Report Share Posted October 1, 2012 [quote name='Rush Sykes' timestamp='1349124554' post='3036264'] SF (who wanted nothing other than to hold NPO down forever, because "we cannot let NPO get back to power"....now has to lapdog itself out to NPO and friends, [/quote] I'm a member of SF and I've been cheering NPO on openly since EVERYTHING. MUST. DIE.... did I miss the team memo... bugger... oh well consider me ahead of my time in preparing as an obedient lapdog then hey. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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