An Announcement from the Mushroom Kingdom

[Banksy]

[quote name='Tiber Septim' timestamp='1339800253' post='2985252']
Regardless of the order of events, our dear friend Dave has always been very close to our hearts. When MK found out he was on a ZI list, they tried to diplomatically solve the issue but CSN foolishly ignored them. MK had no choice but to use force to protect Dave.

This was isn't about crushing an already half-dead bloc, it's about protecting Dave and the sovereignty of the Mushroom Kingdom.
[/quote]
like we always say, friends>infra

and we'll go to zi and back for dave93!

[RedPhx]

[quote]
Banksy, on 14 June 2012 - 11:05 PM, said:
why would we communicate? we want to attack them duh
[/quote]

Irony is harder to prove then words and to make sure that we all know what you said whether you meant it jokingly or not.

[b]Note in the interest of being open about it the quote looks different only because I put it in a response box to my own post rather then finding the original post again but nothing else was changed. [/b]

[b]Edited a couple minutes later [/b] to say that what Banksy said may have been sarcasm instead of Irony because there is a difference such as if Dave turned out to have wanted this to happen to hurt MK with more spying then that would be defined as Irony.

Edited June 15, 2012 by RedPhx

[King Wally]

[quote name='Banksy' timestamp='1339800670' post='2985261']
like we always say, friends>infra

and we'll go to zi and back for dave93!
[/quote]


Unless its NoR wanting to blow up LSF... then you'll go quickly get yourself busy elsewhere so you don't need to deal with the consequences. Don't worry though I don't think anyone noticed yet you should be right.

[Master Holton]

[quote name='RedPhx' timestamp='1339802994' post='2985290']
[b]Irony is harder to prove then words[/b] and to make sure that we all know what you said whether you meant it jokingly or not.
[/quote]

The author of said words has clarified that he was being ironic. I'm not sure what "proof" you require beyond that...?

This war is purely about doing what's right and protecting our dear friend Dave. If you wish to put it to the test might I suggest an old fashioned duel?

XX/SF declare on MK and whoever win surely has God, or Allarchon, on their side and must be in the right.

[Banksy]

[quote name='RedPhx' timestamp='1339802994' post='2985290']
Irony is harder to prove then words and to make sure that we all know what you said whether you meant it jokingly or not.

[b]Note in the interest of being open about it the quote looks different only because I put it in a response box to my own post rather then finding the original post again but nothing else was changed. [/b]

[b]Edited a couple minutes later [/b] to say that what Banksy said may have been sarcasm instead of Irony because there is a difference such as if Dave turned out to have wanted this to happen to hurt MK with more spying then that would be defined as Irony.
[/quote]
are you questioning my honesty? are you putting a stain upon my character??????

[RedPhx]

[quote name='Banksy' timestamp='1339800181' post='2985250']
i was being ironic, idiot. we started this war for dave.
[/quote]

Earlier in this thread you questioned the common law practice of Zeals and what that entails as well as the notion of rights on the Planet Bob.

I want to start off by clarifying the notion of "Common Law". This is the type of law that isn't put in place by any official government nor is it generally enforced by any government but instead it deals with common decency dilemmas such as the use of swear words, the type of clothing that is worn including what parts of the body is revealed and such, where while it isn't punishable by law it is generally frowned upon. Where common law comes into effect here on the Planet Bob affects the document known as a Declaration of War (which I will refer to from here on out by its initials of DOW), the statement of a Casus Beli (translated from latin to mean cause of war and which I will refer to from here on out by its initials of CB) conduct during Tech Raids, diplomacy among alliances, the consequences of should an alliance break a treaty that they have signed, zeals including how far they could go as well as generally accepted rights and responsibilities that a player has when he or she is facing a zeal, as well as several others that I have not included in this list. Time and again there have been major wars with winners and losers resulting from those who test the boundaries of these generally accepted rules of conduct and this is just one of them.

When it comes to the act of spying there is a need for the alliances directly affected to take immediate and swift action. When the alliance the Commonwealth of Sovereign Nations (which I will refer to from here on out by their initials of CSN) found out that the player known as Dave93 (who I will refer to from here on out as simply Dave) had been involved in spying they did not react by declaring war on the alliance known as The Imperial Order (which I will refer to from here on out by their initials of TIO) which Dave was a member of at that time, but rather realized that it was just an isolated incident and worked out a deal with TIO to resolve the matter by zealing Dave. The precedent of zeals being declared for this reason are not documented, however the precedent of DOW's whose CB includes espionage are too numerous to name them all accurately, however they do include a short war declared on a much smaller alliance called the United Blue Directorate declared by MK on April 13, 2009 for the reason of accepting stolen screenshots*.

I wish to conclude this document by pointing out that this is not the first time that MK has tested the limits of common law. When my alliance the Coalition of Royal Allied Powers as well as several other alliances including CSN was attacked by MK as well as two of its closest allies named Umbrella and Goon Order of Oppression, Negligence, and Sadism (commonly referred to as GOONS), collectively known as Doomhouse, the CB used was that it was to keep us out of a current war that they were fighting. While I was not privy to the dealings of my alliances government I saw no indications that we were prepping for war and instead after the first couple of weeks we were told that we were to get back to the every day affairs of our nations. There is also precedence of this testing of the very concept of what an alliance does when the alliance known as GOONS declared war with the CB being that a small alliance was sending aid to one of their members who was being Tech Raided.

* This information was obtained from the MK Wikia page located at http://cybernations.wikia.com/wiki/Mushroom_Kingdom

Edited June 16, 2012 by RedPhx

[Banksy]

[quote name='RedPhx' timestamp='1339809068' post='2985387']
Earlier in this thread you questioned the common law practice of Zeals and what that entails as well as the notion of rights on the Planet Bob.

I want to start off by clarifying the notion of "Common Law". This is the type of law that isn't put in place by any official government nor is it generally enforced by any government but instead it deals with common decency dilemmas such as the use of swear words, the type of clothing that is worn including what parts of the body is revealed and such, where while it isn't punishable by law it is generally frowned upon. Where common law comes into effect here on the Planet Bob affects the document known as a Declaration of War (which I will refer to from here on out by its initials of DOW), the statement of a Casus Beli (translated from latin to mean cause of war and which I will refer to from here on out by its initials of CB) conduct during Tech Raids, diplomacy among alliances, the consequences of should an alliance break a treaty that they have signed, zeals including how far they could go as well as generally accepted rights and responsibilities that a player has when he or she is facing a zeal, as well as several others that I have not included in this list. Time and again there have been major wars with winners and losers resulting from those who test the boundaries of these generally accepted rules of conduct and this is just one of them.

When it comes to the act of spying there is a need for the alliances directly affected to take immediate and swift action. When the alliance the Commonwealth of Sovereign Nations (which I will refer to from here on out by their initials of CSN) found out that the player known as Dave93 (who I will refer to from here on out as simply Dave) had been involved in spying they did not react by declaring war on the alliance known as The Imperial Order (which I will refer to from here on out by their initials of TIO) which Dave was a member of at that time, but rather realized that it was just an isolated incident and worked out a deal with TIO to resolve the matter by zealing Dave. The precedent of zeals being declared for this reason are not documented, however the precedent of DOW's whose CB includes espionage are too numerous to name them all accurately, however they do include a short war declared on a much smaller alliance called the United Blue Directorate declared on April 13, 2009 for the reason of accepting stolen screenshots*.

I wish to conclude this document by pointing out that this is not the first time that MK has tested the limits of common law. When my alliance the Coalition of Royal Allied Powers as well as several other alliances including CSN was attacked by MK as well as two of its closest allies named Umbrella and Goon Order of Oppression, Negligence, and Sadism (commonly referred to as GOONS), collectively known as Doomhouse, the CB used was that it was to keep us out of a current war that they were fighting. While I was not privy to the dealings of my alliances government I saw no indications that we were prepping for war and instead after the first couple of weeks we were told that we were to get back to the every day affairs of our nations. There is also precedence of this testing of the very concept of what an alliance does when the alliance known as GOONS declared war with the CB being that a small alliance was sending aid to one of their members who was being Tech Raided.

* This information was obtained from the MK Wikia page located at http://cybernations.wikia.com/wiki/Mushroom_Kingdom
[/quote]
what does honour mean to you?

[Blooddraken]

[quote name='Banksy' timestamp='1339809305' post='2985389']
what does honour mean to you?
[/quote]

Apparently more than it means to your alliance.

[WorldConqueror]

[quote name='Blooddraken' timestamp='1339810462' post='2985416']
Apparently more than it means to your alliance.
[/quote]
What could be more honourable than defending Dave93 from CSN's heinous crimes?

[Vorenus]

[quote name='WorldConqueror' timestamp='1339810638' post='2985422']
What could be more honourable than defending Dave93 from CSN's heinous crimes?
[/quote]
There could be none greater. Blessed champions of the weak, your names shall be carved in stone!

[RedPhx]

To put it simply honor is simply being upfront. Don't join an alliance to destroy it from the inside since you are misrepresenting yourself to do so.

Don't start shouting out the party line, if you honestly agree with it go ahead but if you are saying something just because you were told to there is more honor in not saying anything then is saying something you don't believe.

If you get in trouble for something you did or did not do just be honestly blunt, I have had an alliance destroyed by the inside by a spy and so I have strong feelings against the tactic but of the two I have more respect for Rotavele since sure he did the most deception and damage but when the time came he spoke up about it and flat out admitted that he joined alliances to spy, however with Dave no matter what he did or didn't do he not only tried hiding from the consequences by going to MK but he hasn't made any attempts to defend his name.

And lastly honor comes from being upfront about intentions, as I said before I feel that MK was looking for any reason to get at SF and when Dave went to them they felt like a present landed in their laps and are trying to sell their CB with all this talk about how Dave is an innocent victim of CSN aggresion.

Also want to say that the last part dealing with GOONS is from my being a fan of the little guy and feeling that members of the Mongol Alliance had every right to defend one of their own from an attack. Haven't had that problem myself but in past games I grew disgusted from rampant farming of the smaller players and alliances and feel that they have just as much right to enjoy the fun of the game as everyone else without having to join a bigger more established alliance to do so.

[Master Holton]

[quote name='Blooddraken' timestamp='1339810462' post='2985416']
Apparently more than it means to your alliance.
[/quote]

I don't see RIA standing up for unjustly ZI'd nations. Only Mushroom Kingdom had the gall and bravery to stand up for Dave and fend off the Commonwealth of Sovereign Nations.

Which is ironic in itself- For Sovereign Nations you lot seem to care little for other's sovereignty.

[Monster]

[quote name='RedPhx' timestamp='1339810867' post='2985427']
To put it simply honor is simply being upfront. Don't join an alliance to destroy it from the inside since you are misrepresenting yourself to do so.

Don't start shouting out the party line, if you honestly agree with it go ahead but if you are saying something just because you were told to there is more honor in not saying anything then is saying something you don't believe.

If you get in trouble for something you did or did not do just be honestly blunt, I have had an alliance destroyed by the inside by a spy and so I have strong feelings against the tactic but of the two I have more respect for Rotavele since sure he did the most deception and damage but when the time came he spoke up about it and flat out admitted that he joined alliances to spy, however with Dave no matter what he did or didn't do he not only tried hiding from the consequences by going to MK but he hasn't made any attempts to defend his name.

And lastly honor comes from being upfront about intentions, as I said before I feel that MK was looking for any reason to get at SF and when Dave went to them they felt like a present landed in their laps and are trying to sell their CB with all this talk about how Dave is an innocent victim of CSN aggresion.

Also want to say that the last part dealing with GOONS is from my being a fan of the little guy and feeling that members of the Mongol Alliance had every right to defend one of their own from an attack. Haven't had that problem myself but in past games I grew disgusted from rampant farming of the smaller players and alliances and feel that they have just as much right to enjoy the fun of the game as everyone else without having to join a bigger more established alliance to do so.
[/quote]

Please stop. They're just yanking your chain and you're giving them the reaction they want.

[RedPhx]

[quote name='Roquentin' timestamp='1339810992' post='2985432']
Please stop. They're just yanking your chain and you're giving them the reaction they want.
[/quote]

In past games I used to do this run around all the time and really enjoyed doing so. The reason why I waited so long is mostly personal reasons but also that I have let games become personal and they stopped being fun but right now this is the most fun I've had in a long while.

[WorldConqueror]

[quote name='RedPhx' timestamp='1339811278' post='2985435']
In past games I used to do this run around all the time and really enjoyed doing so. The reason why I waited so long is mostly personal reasons but also that I have let games become personal and they stopped being fun but right now this is the most fun I've had in a long while.
[/quote]
that you are gaining enjoyment through supporting the persecution of dave is abhorrent. for shame

[Beauty]

[quote name='rsoxbronco1' timestamp='1339774791' post='2984855']
A valiant effort, but no.

Dave has convo with rota (last year)
Rota drops logs (last week)
CSN declares dave to be ZI
Dave applies to MK and is accepted into the academy
Dave messages CSN nations saying he's under MK protection
CSN nukes
CSN queries us "Oh hey he wasn't serious was he?"
[/quote]

Ya, CSN... Everyone knows that ZI targets never lie... and always stay on the None AA.... Im disappointed CSN. For shame. You should of knew better. Thank god MK has come into this conflict... They know what they are doing.

[Drai]

[quote name='Feanor Noldorin' timestamp='1339792978' post='2985147']
DraI is next in line.
[/quote]
Our campaign will never end :>

[RedPhx]

Its only persecution when its undeserved. I have heard MK saying that Dave93 is a member of theirs and that he doesn't deserve the zeal, I heard CSN's side of the story that they were spied upon and that he submitted to the zeal and then backed out, I haven't seen much about how TIO feels about this but they haven't said anything big out of what I read about it and from what was said and wasn't disputed is that they agreed to the zeal. Now that leaves Dave93, its easy to get an account on this forum if he doesn't have one already and so would you mind asking him to come over here and tell us his side of the story (promise I will be nice after all I focus on actions not the person and I try to stay civilized)?

[Banksy]

[quote name='RedPhx' timestamp='1339811278' post='2985435']
In past games I used to do this run around all the time and really enjoyed doing so. The reason why I waited so long is mostly personal reasons but also that I have let games become personal and they stopped being fun but right now this is the most fun I've had in a long while.
[/quote]
maybe it's fun for you, but your attitude normalising the persecution of our true friend, dave93.

ooc: you're literally chasing people away from the game.

[flak attack]

[quote name='Banksy' timestamp='1339813328' post='2985463']
maybe it's fun for you, but your attitude normalising the persecution of our true friend, dave93.
[/quote]
Agreed. The persecution of Dave is a serious crime. It does not deserve to be watered down by discussions of loopholes and legalese.

[Mogar]

OOC: because systematically targeting the same alliance over and over again is far more respectable than targeting individual nations.

[WorldConqueror]

[quote name='RedPhx' timestamp='1339813251' post='2985460']
Its only persecution when its undeserved. I have heard MK saying that Dave93 is a member of theirs and that he doesn't deserve the zeal, I heard CSN's side of the story that they were spied upon and that he submitted to the zeal and then backed out, I haven't seen much about how TIO feels about this but they haven't said anything big out of what I read about it and from what was said and wasn't disputed is that they agreed to the zeal. Now that leaves Dave93, its easy to get an account on this forum if he doesn't have one already and so would you mind asking him to come over here and tell us his side of the story (promise I will be nice after all I focus on actions not the person and I try to stay civilized)?
[/quote]
No innocent nation deserves CSN's misplaced zeal for unjustly attacking them.

[RedPhx]

How am I chasing people away? I have only fought in one war (the VE-NPO war) since during the Doomhouse Invasion of the Chestnut Accords I was having computer problems and only on for about 5 minutes a day so I quickly sent out a note and went into peace mode. I certainly never did anything to start one, and never even conducted a Tech Raid.

I also have never trolled around making people feel uncomfortable whether its here or in my alliances forum or IC room.

And so I ask that since I never did anything to make it harder for people to play and never made people uncomfortable did you just throw out the first baseless accusation of this little run around?

[RedPhx]

Ooc: In a past game I was a leader of an alliance and when I started there were some simple rules to pretty much keep the alliance strong and one of them was that if you did something to start trouble you could ask around for help but officially you made the mess so you need to clean it up.

In character: I have read most of the arguing that has gone on here and I have yet to see the man himself (meaning Dave) speak up and try to clear his name. Now with that said how is it an unjust punishment for an alliance to zeal a player who knowingly read spied information which in the past has been a valid CB in countless wars, and how is it any of MKs business to defend that person? Throwing this out as a thought and not much more but is there any mention of MK in those notes of yours Rotavele?

[Neo Uruk]

[quote name='Banksy' timestamp='1339813328' post='2985463']
ooc: you're literally chasing people away from the game.
[/quote]
he claimed to be already leaving and on top of that it was a single ZI sentence