Sandlot Declaration of War

[Mesteut]

[quote name='Wu Tang Clan' timestamp='1323700302' post='2875243']
I didn't withdraw from anything. Just noted the mistake in your original argument, in saying that what I was saying (just fight damnit), contradicts what was previously mentioned. Everyone has their reasons for this war... mine, personally, is because I want to blow stuff up. Nothing personal against CSN. (Though admittedly others have personal grievances with CSN which in my mind are legitimate, if you want to have that argument we can, it just doesn't really have anything to do with me. So I don't care. But I'll be your Huckleberry if you're looking for one).

Edited to make sense.
[/quote]Oh, do so and complete the circle please. If we go through at least two loops, then everybody can see all cyclic arguments your side possesses.

[Wu Tang Clan]

[quote name='Mesteut' timestamp='1323700470' post='2875244']
Oh, do so and complete the circle please. If we go through at least two loops, then everybody can see all cyclic arguments your side possesses.
[/quote]

Or you can just resort to meager insults. Whatever floats your boat. But I don't play that game. If you want to have a big-boy talk you can find me on IRC.

[Mesteut]

[quote name='Wu Tang Clan' timestamp='1323700665' post='2875247']
Or you can just resort to meager insults. Whatever floats your boat. But I don't play that game. If you want to have a big-boy talk you can find me on IRC.
[/quote]Meager insults? It that is how you define criticism of the structure of opposition argument, then yes, meager insults it is. I am not sure that is what an insult is though.

Anyways, when you can handle criticism and free discussion, you can find me here. Discussions are to be had in public so everybody can see for themselves what is what.

[Van Hoo III]

[quote name='Doitzel' timestamp='1323690516' post='2875137']
I'm surprised you could make that kind of distinction with no brain and only two ganglia. I see you're still feeding on decomposing trash though. Keeping healthy.
[/quote]


Aw Doitzel, you are making me nostalgic. Public clashes between personalities had so much more flare back in the day ... didn't they?



[quote]You shut up and get in line, old man. Tomorrow's Child is the only child.[/quote]


Fine. See if I sell my soul to you and Doitzel for your next uprising afterall ... hmpf.

Edited December 12, 2011 by Van Hoo III

[Wu Tang Clan]

[quote name='Mesteut' timestamp='1323701016' post='2875249']
Meager insults? It that is how you define criticism of the structure of opposition argument, then yes, meager insults it is. I am not sure that is what an insult is though.

Anyways, when you can handle criticism and free discussion, you can find me here. Discussions are to be had in public so everybody can see for themselves what is what.
[/quote]

Meh, in my opinion a discussion is had with the intent of solving some sort of problem or establishing a clearer understanding of a conflicting opinion. Your posts indicate you are content with insinuating we lack the intelligence or are unable to handle some sort of discussion or another. So why would I waste my time? I can't teach the blind to see.

[Mesteut]

[quote name='Van Hoo III' timestamp='1323701424' post='2875251']
flare[/quote]
Not to be a dick, but flair*. Sorry, couldn't resist.

(Unless you mean actual fire)

[quote name='Wu Tang Clan' timestamp='1323701540' post='2875252']
Meh, in my opinion a discussion is had with the intent of solving some sort of problem or establishing a clearer understanding of a conflicting opinion.[/quote]Opinions are worthless in face of facts.
Opinions must be subject to careful dissertation. But you are problematic in face of such challenge.

[quote]Your posts indicate you are content with insinuating we lack the intelligence or are unable to handle some sort of discussion or another.[/quote]Evidence here points so. Think else? [i]Prove[/i] else.

[quote]So why would I waste my time? I can't teach the blind to see.
[/quote]Tell me why I wouldn't feel that way after pages of discussion that accomplishes nothing except proving that I must nuke Bob Ilyani first chance I get.

[porksaber]

Just stopping by to say that this is a great DoW.

Right on ROK. This is a good thing you're doing.

[hizzy]

[quote name='Mesteut' timestamp='1323699912' post='2875234']
Oh great, now we're making progress:

First it was evil CSN paying for its crimes. (- OP)
Then it was "No, we might've done stuff but because you did" (-Bob Ilyani)
Then it was "We aren't pretending to be heroes, we never did" (-Sarm)
Now it is "This is war, just fight it damnit" (-Wu Tang Clan)

Your dishonesty is nothing but irritating, and I am glad I am part of the process that takes it down.
[/quote]

None of those statements are mutually exclusive. In fact, a smarter man than yourself might be able to add them together and come up a single paragraph. Allow me to demonstrate:

"CSN is evil and must pay for its crimes. We may have done "stuff" in the process of making CSN pay, but we feel justified because CSN initiated this entire affair. We're not out to win PR, or be heroes, nor have we ever pretended to be heroes. At the end of the day, this is just war, and there's no use crying about it".

Honestly I'm not sure why I never heard of you before. Sure you're pretty insignificant and were part of a !@#$ alliance, but HeroofTime was part of an even smaller alliance and everyone knew who he was, but quite honestly you're giving him a run for his money for WPE.

[Farnsworth]

I didn't see this receiving so many posts. /sarcasm

I mean, it just contains SF-Rok and CSN-DT drama.

Yawn.

o/ DT
o/ Rok

[Mesteut]

[quote name='hizzy' timestamp='1323704875' post='2875272']
None of those statements are mutually exclusive. In fact, a smarter man than yourself might be able to add them together and come up a single paragraph. Allow me to demonstrate:[/quote]Coming with a paragraph as in a list of sentences is easy enough. However, the logical leaps are what makes it dumb.
Extrapolating your level of intellect, however, that is no surprise. What else do you expect from someone who thinks being part of training as a low tier nation is getting his way with CSN?

[quote]"CSN is evil and must pay for its crimes.[/quote]What crimes? What evilness? Followed by:

[quote]We may have done "stuff" in the process of making CSN pay,[/quote]Except they weren't in the process of making CSN pay. But that's what you get for reading simplified argument and not the actual pages. Maybe if you were more literate, you might've come up with a better fit.

[quote]but we feel justified because CSN initiated this entire affair.[/quote]RoK ditched us and all SF. DT acted horrible during talks, did not show any intent in conflict resolution and deserved the reparations set forth. Legacy what I don't even, and after I talked to Allied Threat, I still don't even.

[quote]We're not out to win PR, or be heroes, nor have we ever pretended to be heroes.[/quote]We're fighting evil CSN and making them pay for their crimes is pretty much pretending to be heroes.

[quote]At the end of the day, this is just war, and there's no use crying about it".[/quote]There was never an argument against this being a war. There is an argument against this being a just war against an evil alliance. Lowering the argument to this is basically not responding to the point. Which is, again, as expected from the likes of you.

[quote]Honestly I'm not sure why I never heard of you before. Sure you're pretty insignificant and were part of a !@#$ alliance, but HeroofTime was part of an even smaller alliance and everyone knew who he was, but quite honestly you're giving him a run for his money for WPE.
[/quote]I do not drop by intra alliance politics discussion. The reasoning is evident from the level of discourse I am forced to tolerate without punching someone in frustration from lack of intellect.

Those people who complain about the old days are right. No eloquence left in the CN community. I kind of wish Vladimir was around.

[MaGneT]

[quote name='Clash' timestamp='1323690026' post='2875135']
Let's state another truth, current according to in-game stats.

Legacy: 102 nations, 4,281,050 ns
Ragnarok: 138 nations, 4,031,699 ns
The Dark Templar: 56 nations, 3,099,223 ns

Totals: 296 nations, 11,411,972 ns
Commonwealth Of Sovereign Nations: 96 nations, 3,261,163ns

Observations on the truth:

1. If y'all can't win that? You suck like nothing that has ever existed before.
Even worse than hizzy, and that guy reeks like unwiped butt.

2. This is the way you chose to war?
What a bunch of pathetic weaklings, if these are the odds you needed.
...and you DID, didn't you. Scoreboard, kids.

3. Pointing out that this is nothing but a collection of cowards' curbstomp is nothing but the truth.
It ain't crying. It's a brutally obvious fact.

4. Did CSN ever put someone at those kinds of odds? I doubt it.
Certainly not in the last war, and y'all be lying if you say different.

So, let's not pretend you did something brave here, or righteous, or anything else along those lines. You did not. You chimps can talk all you want, cause that's all y'all are. Talk and a punk's walk. You certainly ain't tough if this is what you needed. There isn't anything special about any of you clowns.

Done. Now I don't have to post again for a while.
[/quote]
Take a look at this clown

Do you know [i]why[/i] we decided to kick your extortionist asses?

[quote name='Krashnaia' timestamp='1323690844' post='2875141']
Don't forget to add that they needed DH to make a blitz to anarchise half our alliance before they got the guts to declare.
[/quote]
[quote name='Clash' timestamp='1323695515' post='2875187']
Sammy, I'm saying that you needed a 3-1+ advantage for this war, even after an even bigger down-declare hit CSN first and did the easy work for you. That's pretty big, wouldn't you say? I sure do.[/QUOTE]
Actually, as I've mentioned (and I believe others have stated elsewhere), our blitz was planned for the night that DH decided to go after you, but they got their declaration off first, which threw our organization into the crapper. It took us a couple days to decide if we wanted to deal with your whining about our "cowardice" - fact is, justice is worth a bit of spoiled fun.

As far as the 3v1 goes, well, look at your own numbers in the last war.

[QUOTE]You probably wrote it LOL
DT attacked you guys, and you turtled? Whoa.
[/quote]
[quote name='Clash' timestamp='1323696247' post='2875193']
Getting attacked and then not attacking back?
That's pretty much what you said you did. (Actually CSN did it for you, didn't they?)

I don't believe it though. Don't lie about Legacy, too.
[/quote]
Clash, whoever you are, you clearly did not pay attention during the last war. With a few competent exceptions in CsN, Legacy nations were the only ones who did significant damage to DT nations. Your alliance was thoroughly pathetic and, again, with a few exceptions, continues to be in this war as well.
Enjoy the plunge down to 1mil tNS

And Legacy wanted to declare white peace with us very shortly into the conflict. Your alliance's stubbornness forced them to fight for an excessive amount of time. After a while they just stopped declaring wars because frankly, they did not want to fight their friends in DT to gratify Liz and Pxychosis' sadistic tastes.

[quote name='Greg23' timestamp='1323697822' post='2875213']
I never said I agreed with the way things are, I dont like them at all. I would love to see more 1v1 even wars. And just because you as an individual member of CSN thinks you could do a 1v1 vs DT, you know damn well that your gov would never do that.
[/quote]
Nor [i]could[/i] they. Some of the guys that I fought in the last war still haven't rebuilt over 20k NS. Comparatively, I'm currently sitting pretty back over 60k, about to send 3 of them down to that level.
[quote name='Mesteut' timestamp='1323698041' post='2875218']
As enthusiastic as I am to spill all OPSEC info on this forums, I'll just tell you that you have no idea of how the CSN government works and what intentions it can have.[/QUOTE]
Heh. I doubt it works at all.
[QUOTE]Meanwhile, I am sure the CSN I was in would LOVE to do that. But as Hizzy pointed out, that'd result in DT getting curbstomped.[/QUOTE]
I have to confess, you're right here. We'd be drowned in the ocean of piss that is CsN's utter incompetence.
[QUOTE]No biggie, I understand now that you guys are just weak and need massive numbers to get the job done. If you can actually get the job done.
Otherwise, I'll be laughing.
[/quote]

[quote name='Mesteut' timestamp='1323705708' post='2875277']
RoK ditched us and all SF. DT acted horrible during talks, did not show any intent in conflict resolution and deserved the reparations set forth. Legacy what I don't even, and after I talked to Allied Threat, I still don't even.

We're fighting evil CSN and making them pay for their crimes is pretty much pretending to be heroes.
[/quote]
Did you read the logs of the talks? I had a great time almost a year ago putting together a nice beautiful OP and 90 page thread completely destroying your alliance's PR to allow for this beautiful moment. I shouldn't really be taking any credit for that, your leaders Liz and Pxychosis handled all of that for me...

Edited December 12, 2011 by MaGneT

[Megamickel]

You guys get to have all the fun...
Slice some commie throats for me. Let's see if their blood is as red as they are. Then burn their corpses. Can't let their commie disease spread.

Odin sees that this viking raid is good, and Odin shall reward the fallen.

[Buds The Man]

This thread delivers.

For those saying there is no justification for this STFU. I was there and watched this process from start to finish and was involved in negotiations. CSN enforced reps to Legacy. Sarmation told me he really didnt want them. CSN took unreasonable reps. Even though towards the end they were more reasonable it still set these wheels in motion. SF has been begging for RoK to come in to this war and now they are here. CSNs DMOD has been running his mouth about Legacy and DT since this war started. If you dont want war then keep your mouth shut instead of fanning the fires.

An old Mafia saying "Revenge is a dish that tastes best when served cold" Winter is here for some of you, put on a jacket and pray for an early spring.

Have fun DT/RoK and Legacy

Edited December 12, 2011 by Buds The Man

[Phetion]

[quote name='Buds The Man' timestamp='1323707860' post='2875286']
This thread delivers.

For those saying there is no justification for this STFU. I was there and watched this process from start to finish and was involved in negotiations. CSN enforced reps to Legacy. Sarmation told me he really didnt want them. CSN took unreasonable reps. Even though towards the end they were more reasonable it still set these wheels in motion. SF has been begging for RoK to come in to this war and now they are here. CSNs DMOD has been running his mouth about Legacy and DT since this war started. If you dont want war then keep your mouth shut instead of fanning the fires.

An old Mafia saying "Revenge is a dish that tastes best when served cold" Winter is here for some of you, put on a jacket and pray for an early spring.

Have fun DT/RoK and Legacy
[/quote]

Bud, old friend, answer me this.

If Legacy felt so afflicted by CSN and GOD at that time, why did they proceed to sign an MDoAP with GOD quite some time [b]after[/b] all these events unfolded?

Exactly.

[Mesteut]

[quote name='Phetion' timestamp='1323708142' post='2875288']
If Legacy felt so afflicted by CSN and GOD at that time, why did they proceed to sign an MDoAP with GOD quite some time [b]after[/b] all these events unfolded?
[/quote]If they explained with idiocy, I am afraid they could get away with it.

[Sarmatian Empire]

[quote name='Phetion' timestamp='1323708142' post='2875288']
Bud, old friend, answer me this.

If Legacy felt so afflicted by CSN and GOD at that time, why did they proceed to sign an MDoAP with GOD quite some time [b]after[/b] all these events unfolded?

Exactly.
[/quote]
Because the gov was burned out and didnt give a !@#$. Then we had a overhauled the government and the new government decided to say $%&@ you. I've only went over this a couple hundred times now

[Buds The Man]

[quote name='Phetion' timestamp='1323708142' post='2875288']
Bud, old friend, answer me this.

If Legacy felt so afflicted by CSN and GOD at that time, why did they proceed to sign an MDoAP with GOD quite some time [b]after[/b] all these events unfolded?

Exactly.
[/quote]
Porkers only they can answer that. My post is strictly from my perspective and what I observed during that time frame. If you go back to Roto rooters posts he has been inflamatory and an over all POS which only added to the desire to hit CSN. I cannot speak on the relationship with GOD as I never saw any interaction between yall. I can only say I saw the tensions with CSN mounting over the dealings with the peace for DT. The tension between CSN and DT has been growing ever since and if we are to ever be able to move on this needed to happen. Oppurtunity seldom knocks twice if you know what i mean.

[Phetion]

[quote name='Buds The Man' timestamp='1323708426' post='2875295']
Porkers only they can answer that. My post is strictly from my perspective and what I observed during that time frame. If you go back to Roto rooters posts he has been inflamatory and an over all POS which only added to the desire to hit CSN. I cannot speak on the relationship with GOD as I never saw any interaction between yall. I can only say I saw the tensions with CSN mounting over the dealings with the peace for DT. The tension between CSN and DT has been growing ever since and if we are to ever be able to move on this needed to happen. Oppurtunity seldom knocks twice if you know what i mean.
[/quote]


Yeah, I thoroughly understand why DT felt this was right for them to do and as I mentioned earlier in this topic you could also justify DT's allies at the time also wanting to hit CSN too. I thoroughly expected them to seek such a move.

On the other hand Legacy have proved their colours once more, and well Rok. Yeah.

I'll probably catch you on IRC to talk about it sometime.

[Buds The Man]

[quote name='Mesteut' timestamp='1323708276' post='2875291']
If they explained with idiocy, I am afraid they could get away with it.
[/quote]
You know i get being loyal to your AA, I also get PR and perspective, but I say this out of kindness,your doing CSN no favors with this line of thought and posting. Your facts are vague at best and really if you want to go back to the last war youll find the justification. Hell even Goose admits he knew this was comming and is probably deserved.
Your posting of NS and nations while very telling numbers wise does not infact tell the whole story. Yes they needed all 3 as DT would never be able to get to your lower tier nations. Their ANS strength is too high. They didnt need help to hurt CSN as they would IMO crush your top tier. War is fought on all levels RoK and Legacy provide that ability. Just a different perspective.

[Fort Pitt]

It has been proven. It has been proven that CSN has a horrible case of amnesia. At least some members.

3v1 odds. Hmm... let's see... Like MaGneT said, look at the odds from last war. DT, by itself, was facing what... 4-1 odds? Perhaps it was 5-1? From CSN and Legacy. DT was about 50 members [i]maybe[/i] then. CSN was still well above 150, and I'm pretty sure Legacy was about our size as well, if not bigger. So before you finish complaining about fighting 3 alliances, look at your history.


Let's also recall who 'won' the war.

On the stats page? You could argue we lost, however if you look at it, despite the massive odds CSN had against DT, you guys lost more of a percentage of your total NS than we did. But we'll call this one a draw.

Let's try membership integrity. No we definitely won that one. DT had its biggest activity boom ever during that war and after. CSN? Didn't a splinter alliance form or something? Massive herds of members leaving in disgust? Yeah, DT won the membership integrity side of the war.

Let's try PR. Oh, once again DT victory. You can't force a month (maybe more, I don't remember how long it was) long war with an alliance without good reason. Yours? "ODP's aren't real treaties." Try me. ODP's are perfectly good treaties, with valid CB's. Just because it's not mandatory doesn't mean its not valid.

So... of the 3 categories of war I could think of, we won.

[Mesteut]

[quote name='MaGneT' timestamp='1323705848' post='2875278']
Heh. I doubt it works at all.[/quote]It does, actually.

[quote]I have to confess, you're right here. We'd be drowned in the ocean of piss that is CsN's utter incompetence.[/quote]That is why out of the three people I am fighting, only the one from Legacy has any meaningful defense. Despite all of them having infra AND tech advantage.

Your grouping of nations is the saddest bunch I have ever fought.

[quote]Did you read the logs of the talks? I had a great time almost a year ago putting together a nice beautiful OP and 90 page thread completely destroying your alliance's PR to allow for this beautiful moment. I shouldn't really be taking any credit for that, your leaders Liz and Pxychosis handled all of that for me...
[/quote]I remember that. I also remember that whoever disliked SF in power directly jumped into that and bloated that to a PR mess. Your view of self-importance is absurd.

[quote name='Buds The Man' timestamp='1323708954' post='2875300']
You know i get being loyal to your AA, I also get PR and perspective, but I say this out of kindness,your doing CSN no favors with this line of thought and posting.[/quote]I am only upholding the honor of the alliance and making a stand. Whoever has a spine will actually understand where I come from.

[quote]Your facts are vague at best[/quote]They are what I remember, and what is written.

[quote]and really if you want to go back to the last war youll find the justification.[/quote]The justifications are dumb, and essentially boil down to "because we can".

Legacy's justification is simply absurd though. Especially after the story I got from AT.

[quote]Hell even Goose admits he knew this was comming and is probably deserved.[/quote]Goose said DT was incoming from mistreatment. RoK and Legacy are w/e, bombarded.
Now, I have pages of talks on the CSN forums, but as I stated before, not really a fan of giving out allied info.

[quote]Your posting of NS and nations while very telling numbers wise does not infact tell the whole story.[/quote]I am not the one posting exact numbers.

[quote]Yes they needed all 3 as DT would never be able to get to your lower tier nations. Their ANS strength is too high. They didnt need help to hurt CSN as they would IMO crush your top tier. War is fought on all levels RoK and Legacy provide that ability. Just a different perspective.
[/quote]Yeah, and lower levels are provided coverage by making sure all top tier nations have at least three people on them. Sounds very logical.

[Sarmatian Empire]

[quote]Legacy's justification is simply absurd though. Especially after the story I got from AT.[/quote]

Lets try this again..you do know me and AT are like best friends right? We talk every day about all kinds of !@#$. Has it ever passed your mind that your being $%&@ed with? I'm not going to go further this with, you can draw your own conclusion and I'm sure it will be just as loopy and ignorant as the rest of the !@#$ you post, but remember...we never argue, we never fight, and we've been known to pull !@#$ on people before

[Buds The Man]

[quote name='Mesteut' timestamp='1323710804' post='2875317']
I am only upholding the honor of the alliance and making a stand. Whoever has a spine will actually understand where I come from.
[/quote]
I do understand but having a spine and helping your alliance is one thing your arguments are doing the opposite.

[quote]The justifications are dumb, and essentially boil down to "because we can".[/quote]
What would be justifiable in your eyes. If you were in their shoes would you let this oppurtunity go considering the history?

[quote]Legacy's justification is simply absurd though. Especially after the story I got from AT.[/quote]
Talk to your DMOD about why Legacy is so upset. He keeps fanning the flames.

[quote]Goose said DT was incoming from mistreatment. RoK and Legacy are w/e, bombarded.
Now, I have pages of talks on the CSN forums, but as I stated before, not really a fan of giving out allied info.[/quote]
Goose is a smart guy and hes right.

[quote]I am not the one posting exact numbers.[/quote]
yeah sorry had you confused with another guy

[quote]Yeah, and lower levels are provided coverage by making sure all top tier nations have at least three people on them. Sounds very logical.
[/quote]
I dont know how much you pay attention to war but upper tier coverage is essential. Top nations have bigger war chests and aid down. It is essential to make sure they are covered well. Its war you fight it to win.

Edited December 12, 2011 by Buds The Man

[hizzy]

[quote name='Mesteut' timestamp='1323705708' post='2875277']
Coming with a paragraph as in a list of sentences is easy enough. However, the logical leaps are what makes it dumb.
Extrapolating your level of intellect, however, that is no surprise. What else do you expect from someone who thinks being part of training as a low tier nation is getting his way with CSN?
[/quote]

So CSN's training is to wait around until I declare war on you, then mishandle the aid you're sent (which is rare to receive in the first place), and give it all back to me anyways, and then beg for peace? Then after the war ends, continue to sit around without growing so that you can get tech raided again and again by the same guy? No wonder your NS chart is the steepest cliff in the game right now.

Do you realize I've been tech raiding CSN and sending that tech back to DT for the last 9 months? I've been having my way with you and yours and until your alliance surrenders to me personally I will continue tech raiding and stopping you from recruiting new nations.

[Mesteut]

[quote name='Sarmatian Empire' timestamp='1323712126' post='2875336']
Lets try this again..you do know me and AT are like best friends right? We talk every day about all kinds of !@#$. Has it ever passed your mind that your being $%&@ed with? I'm not going to go further this with, you can draw your own conclusion and I'm sure it will be just as loopy and ignorant as the rest of the !@#$ you post, but remember...we never argue, we never fight, and we've been known to pull !@#$ on people before
[/quote]If AT does that, I won't play with him. I think he'd know that much.

Will answer the rest later.

Edited December 12, 2011 by Mesteut